After 12 Years, Apple Pushed Me Out

[infiniteentropy]

Not another "Apple sucks" thread here... just lamenting that Apple pushed me out by their actions.

I switched to Apple when they went to Intel and bought a "BlackBook" as they were colloquially called back then. I figured if I hated OS X, I could install Windows and have a slick looking computer running Windows. As it turns out, I really enjoyed OS X! Thus began quite the run with Apple products. Owned multiple MacBooks, iMacs, Mac minis, iPhones, iPods, Apple TV's, everything! Convinced friends and family to switch to Apple based on the superior build quality, user experience, and just amazing feeling of using Apple products. It was like they were products from another planet, and though they costed more, they were reliable, had great support, and couldn't be beat for resale value.

Back then, Windows laptops were crappy in both build quality and usability, and Windows Vista, then 7 (and 8), were just terrible and didn't work as you expected them to. You could definitely get a ton more done on OS X than on Windows. After virus updates, anti-spyware processes slowing down the PC constantly, it was just a far less productive option to go with Windows and so from a business perspective it made it a no-brainer to go with Apple. It was simply a superior option from almost every direction (except for Windows-specific software, for which you ran a VM or Boot Camp).

I say all this just to point out that I really enjoyed Apple's products and saw enormous value in their offerings.

Then Apple, as they tend to do, sat on their lead.

Earlier this year, I owned: a MacBook Pro, a Mac mini, an Apple TV, an iPad, an iPhone, an Apple Watch, numerous USB-C adapters, and an eGPU for the MacBook Pro.

Now I own: an iPhone (8+) and an Apple TV

What changed? Apple got greedy and stopped caring (at least about the market I find myself in - tech worker, uses computers for intense and sustained computing and software architecture and development).

Apple raised the prices of everything across the board. This forced me to do a hard look at what's out there and realized that Apple is no longer the leader in anything except their stance on privacy and ability to write apps for iOS devices.

In the laptop arena, they're getting destroyed in hardware performance value. Same goes for tablets and phones. With desktops, it's not even a fair fight. The only reason I kept my iPhone is because it's a very personal device and I'd prefer to not be tracked and pooled in with others to be sold as part of a demographic to an advertiser. The Apple TV works and I'll just keep it until it dies and replace it with whatever's good when that happens.

Apple's computers can't be worked on. Which could be acceptable to some but as a technology worker, I'd love to be able to upgrade or simply repair my devices when they have trouble. To add insult to injury, the last few times I've been to a "Genius" I've basically ended up fixing my own problem. For major problems, if you're going to have to send the machine in anyhow, then the Apple Store's presence becomes irrelevant. This is not to mention the issue of being largely unable to upgrade Apple's machines, which makes the value proposition even worse. Finally, there's the issue of needing adapters for many devices currently. I was willing to look past this because you can just keep the adapters connected to your devices for now and they're pretty affordable. Beyond that, it's arguable that many things will update to a USB-C connection at some point in the future.

So, with Apple, for paying what is now a significantly higher price, you get... the idea that your privacy is better protected (there has been some question about the reality of this but I still believe it), the ability to make iOS apps, and you get iMessage on a full computer. And a MUCH worse performing machine, at that. It's no longer worth it, to me at least.

Apple has locked things down too far, is charging too much for these locked down things, has reduced overall quality of components compared to what others offer, and has stopped differentiating themselves in a good way from their competitors.

It's a thought process I felt like sharing, and it's made me sad to have to realize that Apple is no longer the value and terrific company for whom I once openly and happily advocated to friends and family.

I don't think "Apple is doomed" or anything of the sort. Certainly their market exists and they're way better at knowing that than I am. They're just no longer for me and people like me who find themselves suddenly on the outside looking in.

 

[EdwardC]

Very interesting point of view which I am unfortunately prone to agree with. Windows '95 caused me to migrate to the Mac camp using System 7. I still currently own a late 2013 21" iMac and a late 2012 mini which has been put out of service due to slowing down to a crawl and loosing it's bluetooth radio. I also have an iPhone 6, 6S and 7 currently in use as well as an iPad Air 2. I did have a MacBook Air but sold it a few years back. Recently I was looking for a travel laptop for general use and ended up picking up a Chromebook. I found that it really did everything I needed and cost $300.00, I have to say it is a really decent product which doesn't bother me to take out and about due to the very low price of admittance. As I said my Mini was just retired and unfortunately was not replaced with a new Mini even though I thought long and hard about one. When my iMac needs to be retired, I might very well pick one up, but in the meantime I picked up an HP DeskPro G5-400 (small form factor) i5-8500 / 16 gigs DDR4-2666 RAM, 256 gig HD Intel UHD630 video. This is the same config as the mid i5 Mini the only difference is Mac OS, Thunderbolt ports and the smaller enclosure, but.......I only have $708.00 (including three years of onsite repair and support) vs $1,299.00 for the Mini. Windows 10 is smoking fast and runs very well. I also have a perpetual AutoCad license which will only work with Windows so this is a no brainer. I'm hoping the future will bring pricing down a little but Apple is pricing some users out of the ecosystem. Just my personal opinion from a long-time Mac guy.

 

[LV426]

There will be a backlash. People are buying Apple phones less often because they're too pricey. Apple could easily drop the prices and maintain a decent margin (on The Register they call it the Cupertino Idiot Tax). But, like all corporations, they are driven by greedy shareholders who are never happy with a steady income. Apple exist for their shareholders, not you and me.

Having said that, my Apple equipment of several years age is still plodding along quite happily, and the bits do play nicely with each other, so I'm not out of pocket.

I feel your pain if you are a tech buff who likes to tinker with hardware, but I'm personally past that kind of thing. I used to build my own PCs, right down to choosing the right type of CPU fan and power supply. But what was I thinking! That noisy monster PC in my living room was beaten hands down by my MacBook Pro and I never want to see the day again where I need to fit a jumper to the back of a hard drive.

 

[Tech198]

Not another "Apple sucks" thread here... just lamenting that Apple pushed me out by their actions.

I switched to Apple when they went to Intel and bought a "BlackBook" as they were colloquially called back then. I figured if I hated OS X, I could install Windows and have a slick looking computer running Windows. As it turns out, I really enjoyed OS X! Thus began quite the run with Apple products. Owned multiple MacBooks, iMacs, Mac minis, iPhones, iPods, Apple TV's, everything! Convinced friends and family to switch to Apple based on the superior build quality, user experience, and just amazing feeling of using Apple products. It was like they were products from another planet, and though they costed more, they were reliable, had great support, and couldn't be beat for resale value.

Back then, Windows laptops were crappy in both build quality and usability, and Windows Vista, then 7 (and 8), were just terrible and didn't work as you expected them to. You could definitely get a ton more done on OS X than on Windows. After virus updates, anti-spyware processes slowing down the PC constantly, it was just a far less productive option to go with Windows and so from a business perspective it made it a no-brainer to go with Apple. It was simply a superior option from almost every direction (except for Windows-specific software, for which you ran a VM or Boot Camp).

I say all this just to point out that I really enjoyed Apple's products and saw enormous value in their offerings.

Then Apple, as they tend to do, sat on their lead.

Earlier this year, I owned: a MacBook Pro, a Mac mini, an Apple TV, an iPad, an iPhone, an Apple Watch, numerous USB-C adapters, and an eGPU for the MacBook Pro.

Now I own: an iPhone (8+) and an Apple TV

What changed? Apple got greedy and stopped caring (at least about the market I find myself in - tech worker, uses computers for intense and sustained computing and software architecture and development).

Apple raised the prices of everything across the board. This forced me to do a hard look at what's out there and realized that Apple is no longer the leader in anything except their stance on privacy and ability to write apps for iOS devices.

In the laptop arena, they're getting destroyed in hardware performance value. Same goes for tablets and phones. With desktops, it's not even a fair fight. The only reason I kept my iPhone is because it's a very personal device and I'd prefer to not be tracked and pooled in with others to be sold as part of a demographic to an advertiser. The Apple TV works and I'll just keep it until it dies and replace it with whatever's good when that happens.

Apple's computers can't be worked on. Which could be acceptable to some but as a technology worker, I'd love to be able to upgrade or simply repair my devices when they have trouble. To add insult to injury, the last few times I've been to a "Genius" I've basically ended up fixing my own problem. For major problems, if you're going to have to send the machine in anyhow, then the Apple Store's presence becomes irrelevant. This is not to mention the issue of being largely unable to upgrade Apple's machines, which makes the value proposition even worse. Finally, there's the issue of needing adapters for many devices currently. I was willing to look past this because you can just keep the adapters connected to your devices for now and they're pretty affordable. Beyond that, it's arguable that many things will update to a USB-C connection at some point in the future.

So, with Apple, for paying what is now a significantly higher price, you get... the idea that your privacy is better protected (there has been some question about the reality of this but I still believe it), the ability to make iOS apps, and you get iMessage on a full computer. And a MUCH worse performing machine, at that. It's no longer worth it, to me at least.

Apple has locked things down too far, is charging too much for these locked down things, has reduced overall quality of components compared to what others offer, and has stopped differentiating themselves in a good way from their competitors.

It's a thought process I felt like sharing, and it's made me sad to have to realize that Apple is no longer the value and terrific company for whom I once openly and happily advocated to friends and family.

I don't think "Apple is doomed" or anything of the sort. Certainly their market exists and they're way better at knowing that than I am. They're just no longer for me and people like me who find themselves suddenly on the outside looking in.

Apple pushed you out, or you pushed Apple out? SOunds like the later... i still buy Apple products but they never get my support either, since i do my own..... That , I would say would be "me pushing out Apple" not visa veria.

 

[Haemoglobin]

For a long time, I've felt the old Apple ethos has been slipping. The company that brought you "Think different!" seems like a fading memory. Like him or hate him, Steve Jobs certainly kept Apple on course later in his life.

 

[rillrill]

Totally with the OP, lately.

This is me, pretty much. I have always enjoyed my products from Apple, but most of the Apple products I liked were under the guidance of Steve Jobs. I knew when he passed on Apple's best days were behind them. It took a while because of good faith, but that faith has pretty much eroded for me. I don't love the iPhone XS Max, its ok, but nothing life changing. I regret buying it, actually. It will be my last iPhone for the foreseeable future.

Their other products show how much they've fallen. I bought a Macbook 2017, and it had sticky keys - sold that right after I got it fixed. I'm typing on a 2015 Macbook Pro because all of the newer models suck, but I am really stuck in the ****ing ecosystem and haven't found an alternative. And, in 2018, Apple are not even competing in design either. So many companies have make products that are just as nice looking and at a lower price.

They've absolutely priced out their products way too high. I am glad I got a deal on me and wife's iPhones, otherwise there was just no way. And there is this stigma of, if you have an X or XS, you are rich AF, which is not good for Apple's business. There shouldn't be a "rich" phone and "middle class" phone. Keep it one medium sized model and one larger model. Now I'm being nickled and dimed for iCloud storage. It's just annoying...I hope their stock tanks.

 

[maflynn]

Apple's pricing is probably what is going to drive me away. At some point (soon), I'll not be able to justify spending that much money on any of the iToys and/or macs. I'm content with my MBP and iPhone, but I'll not look to upgrade my iPad or my wife's anytime soon. I'm not leaving, but at the moment, I'm not looking to spend any more money on it. At least for now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Haemoglobin]

What Apple needs is a visionary / risk taker or for lack of a better word an a$$ hole. Were half the rumors true about Jobs, he pushed people beyond breaking point, demanding 120% from each and every person he employed on a project.

I miss the old Apple and I've never been a fan of what replaced it. The "What's a computer?" advert featuring the girl with her iPad, showed how out of touch Apple is with customers.

If and when my Powerbook dies, I might move on to a Macbook, hopefully one that looks identical to my powerbook.

Totally with the OP, lately.

This is me, pretty much. I have always enjoyed my products from Apple, but most of the Apple products I liked were under the guidance of Steve Jobs. I knew when he passed on Apple's best days were behind them. It took a while because of good faith, but that faith has pretty much eroded for me. I don't love the iPhone XS Max, its ok, but nothing life changing. I regret buying it, actually. It will be my last iPhone for the foreseeable future.

Their other products show how much they've fallen. I bought a Macbook 2017, and it had sticky keys - sold that right after I got it fixed. I'm typing on a 2015 Macbook Pro because all of the newer models suck, but I am really stuck in the ****ing ecosystem and haven't found an alternative. And, in 2018, Apple are not even competing in design either. So many companies have make products that are just as nice looking and at a lower price.

They've absolutely priced out their products way too high. I am glad I got a deal on me and wife's iPhones, otherwise there was just no way. And there is this stigma of, if you have an X or XS, you are rich AF, which is not good for Apple's business. There shouldn't be a "rich" phone and "middle class" phone. Keep it one medium sized model and one larger model. Now I'm being nickled and dimed for iCloud storage. It's just annoying...I hope their stock tanks.

 

[rillrill]

And I’ve seen a lot of this sentiment on this forum and others about Apple from fans and users that have been with them for a long long time. Myself since 2003, but if it’s time, it’s time. Maybe chromeos is compelling....?

 

[IdentityCrisis]

There will be a backlash. People are buying Apple phones less often because they're too pricey. Apple could easily drop the prices and maintain a decent margin (on The Register they call it the Cupertino Idiot Tax). But, like all corporations, they are driven by greedy shareholders who are never happy with a steady income. Apple exist for their shareholders, not you and me.

Having said that, my Apple equipment of several years age is still plodding along quite happily, and the bits do play nicely with each other, so I'm not out of pocket.

I feel your pain if you are a tech buff who likes to tinker with hardware, but I'm personally past that kind of thing. I used to build my own PCs, right down to choosing the right type of CPU fan and power supply. But what was I thinking! That noisy monster PC in my living room was beaten hands down by my MacBook Pro and I never want to see the day again where I need to fit a jumper to the back of a hard drive.

Hahah. Yep. Primary or Slave. I remember those days. I just gave up on building PCs myself. After 30 years of it. Tired of all the nicknacks of things going wrong or the parts just not being reliable or the poor support and calling multiple vendors or that pc heating up my office to 80 plus degrees.

The MacBook Pro is a great device and will do everything I need including a few games. I’ll let apple do the troubleshooting and fix the issue under warranty while I enjoy life. I’ll leave fixing PCs for my daily work job.

 

[AidenShaw]

I’ll let apple do the troubleshooting and fix the issue under warranty while I enjoy life. I’ll leave fixing PCs for my daily work job.

And I'll use PCs and let the Lenovo, HP and Dell technicians come to me when I need service. Take the system to the Apple store - how 19th century.

 

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

I am currently at these crossroads. I just purchased an iPhone Xs, and an Apple Watch 4, but my 2014 Mac Mini, and late 2015 MacBook Air have seen better days. Unfortunately, I need more out of my desktop and laptop, but I really cannot justify the cost Apple wants me to pay to upgrade.

I can't believe I just spent a grand on a phone. It's a nice phone, but not a $1000 nice. My 8 plus was having issues and was out of warranty, I thought moving to a Xs would be a smart move. It's a fine phone, but I feel I paid too much for what it is.

The eco-system has me locked in, and if I move over to a windows machine, my interaction with my phone and watch will be severely limited. Not to mention my interaction with my Apple TV's will be non existent. The idea that for some the solution is to buy used or refurbished just to stay locked in to the eco system is ridiculous.

I will continue for a while longer or until my machines quit and I am forced to replace them. I really am at a loss as to what to do moving forward.

I did not realize how locked in I was until I seriously contemplated moving away from Apple. I would have to move all my photos over to a windows based file system, much of my music is Apple Lossless, and I can't take along any of my iTunes movies or music. We really are locked in with little options.
[doublepost=1543812534][/doublepost]

Hahah. Yep. Primary or Slave. I remember those days. I just gave up on building PCs myself. After 30 years of it. Tired of all the nicknacks of things going wrong or the parts just not being reliable or the poor support and calling multiple vendors or that pc heating up my office to 80 plus degrees.

The MacBook Pro is a great device and will do everything I need including a few games. I’ll let apple do the troubleshooting and fix the issue under warranty while I enjoy life. I’ll leave fixing PCs for my daily work job.

I am going the opposite way. It's been years since I built a PC. So many options and possibility. Even years ago I built PC's will little problem. Have things become worse as tech advances? I thought it would be the opposite.

How can you compare the reliability of a laptop to a custom built PC? To me it seems they would be two different animals.

 

[IdentityCrisis]

And I'll use PCs and let the Lenovo, HP and Dell technicians come to me when I need service. Take the system to the Apple store - how 19th century.

Yep, and most of those techs are worthless that come onsite to fix machines. They’ve broken more of our dell and hp laptops which we’ve had to ship them to get them fixed properly then.

But apples don’t need to visit as often. They don’t break as often. At least apple has stores.
[doublepost=1543845266][/doublepost]

I am currently at these crossroads. I just purchased an iPhone Xs, and an Apple Watch 4, but my 2014 Mac Mini, and late 2015 MacBook Air have seen better days. Unfortunately, I need more out of my desktop and laptop, but I really cannot justify the cost Apple wants me to pay to upgrade.

I can't believe I just spent a grand on a phone. It's a nice phone, but not a $1000 nice. My 8 plus was having issues and was out of warranty, I thought moving to a Xs would be a smart move. It's a fine phone, but I feel I paid too much for what it is.

The eco-system has me locked in, and if I move over to a windows machine, my interaction with my phone and watch will be severely limited. Not to mention my interaction with my Apple TV's will be non existent. The idea that for some the solution is to buy used or refurbished just to stay locked in to the eco system is ridiculous.

I will continue for a while longer or until my machines quit and I am forced to replace them. I really am at a loss as to what to do moving forward.

I did not realize how locked in I was until I seriously contemplated moving away from Apple. I would have to move all my photos over to a windows based file system, much of my music is Apple Lossless, and I can't take along any of my iTunes movies or music. We really are locked in with little options.
[doublepost=1543812534][/doublepost]

I am going the opposite way. It's been years since I built a PC. So many options and possibility. Even years ago I built PC's will little problem. Have things become worse as tech advances? I thought it would be the opposite.

How can you compare the reliability of a laptop to a custom built PC? To me it seems they would be two different animals.

Nvidia is having a lot of card failures with the 2080s, intel is having i9-9900k chips blowing up, Asus quality has gone to crap on their products now with the vrm on the boards are not powerful enough to support the 9900k even though it supports it. So many other issues. Yes the quality isn’t as good as it use to be. I’ve built 3 machines in the past year with quality parts and all 3 had issues of parts failing after a while. Didn’t use to have a problem years ago either.

Macs are very reliable. That is why people buy them. Heck my mom still has her 2009 Mac mini and it’s still going. I’m using a 2009 MacBook Pro while I wait for my new laptop running Mojave.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Earlier this year, I owned: a MacBook Pro, a Mac mini, an Apple TV, an iPad, an iPhone, an Apple Watch, numerous USB-C adapters, and an eGPU for the MacBook Pro.

Now I own: an iPhone (8+) and an Apple TV

Since you have an iPhone, I'm surprised you got rid of your Apple Watch.

 

[Spankey]

I'm with you on the desktop OS side of this. Aside from hardware and a few select Mac OS apps (Final Cut) that don't run on Windows, there is nothing that OS X does better than Windows 10.

I still have a MBP, dual boot mostly in Windows, a Mac Mini which is almost exclusively running Windows 10, and an old iMac which will most likely be replaced by a low end Mini which can run Windows.

The Apple eco-system is still the strong point and the glue keeping me with Apple as well as great hardware on the mobile and TV side.

 

[infiniteentropy]

Since you have an iPhone, I'm surprised you got rid of your Apple Watch.

Just figured I'd make my only link into the ecosystem be the iPhone for if I decide to jump ship to LineageOS or some other phone, it'd be an easier transition.

Also, I recently got a FireTV and it's an excellent piece of hardware for a small fraction of the price of an AppleTV. Does many excellent things just as well as the AppleTV: movies (thanks MoviesAnywhere!), Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime (obviously), HDHomeRun, Twitch, and has a way better remote control!

 

[IdentityCrisis]

Just figured I'd make my only link into the ecosystem be the iPhone for if I decide to jump ship to LineageOS or some other phone, it'd be an easier transition.

Also, I recently got a FireTV and it's an excellent piece of hardware for a small fraction of the price of an AppleTV. Does many excellent things just as well as the AppleTV: movies (thanks MoviesAnywhere!), Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime (obviously), HDHomeRun, Twitch, and has a way better remote control!

How does the firetv work with streaming youtube, like I do with google chromecast?

 

[infiniteentropy]

How does the firetv work with streaming youtube, like I do with google chromecast?

With YouTube, it uses the Silk browser to bring it up, but I don't know if I would know that if the device didn't tell me so, it looks and performs excellently.

 

[rillrill]

Here's great, well-written article on this topic, if anyone is interested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...they-get-away-with-it/?utm_term=.b34b0cdbcab1

 

[cardfan]

There’s definitely room for improvement but there’s no other place I want to go. Apples ecosystem is lightyears better than the competition.

 

[skeeedunt]

I'll probably have a fairly different opinion than most here. I switched over to MacBook Pros around 2008, mostly on Apple's very strong hardware package. In the years since, Intel's ultrabook push pretty much got the PC laptop manufacturers into shape, and modern Windows-based offerings are great. Apple still leads in battery life, but not much else, and is suffering on performance and price.

I never really liked OS X that much. (Sorry.) Then again I never really hated Windows either. IMO they both have strengths.

I actually still really love my iPhone, it's one thing I rarely regret spending money on. I'm not thrilled the prices on them are ballooning out of control, but if I'm honest, it's a device I use a ton and it's worth the spend. Face ID was a killer app for me, and the improvements to iOS, stability, speed, attention to UI design and interactions, are all top notch. I'm totally happy in the mobile space.

I hate lock-in, and I've tried really hard to stay vendor-agnostic. My photos are all in iCloud, mostly because it's easy and makes sense, but my email, contacts, document storage are all on non-Apple platforms. iMessage integration, handoff, etc are nice when I'm on my MacBook, but it's not enough to keep me on the platform. I pay for apple music, but that's trivial to switch. I've tried not to purchase much on iTunes (other than apps of course, where I've spent plenty, but that's a cost I'm willing to accept).

I know I give up a bit by not fully embracing the ecosystem, but there are also advantages to being able to choose the strongest offering in a given space without being locked in. My next laptop will almost certainly be Windows. My next phone almost certainly Apple. Anyway, just my thoughts, from a guy who's also disheartened to see Apple pushing prices into the stratosphere while not always offering enough to back it up.

 

[Martius]

I'm thinking about this quite often since 2016 (the launch of redesigned MBP). I work as a developer, my laptop is the most used and important piece of tech I own. I live minimalist life, I focus on work and my girlfriend / friends. I don't really have anything else I would like to spend my money for except the tech I use for work and of course cost of living. And I still don't want to spend like $4000 for a new laptop, because spending so much money for any current Mac is not just worth it. The main reason for me is the reliability of the devices. I could live with all the compromises like the dongles, worse battery life, worse keyboard. I could even live with the touchbar. But I could not live with such an unreliable device.

I have MBP 2015 and even that device is not that reliable I hoped. And of course the growing repair prices and repair times are not "helping" me to stick with an Apple laptop as my next work machine.

I think this is where it all begins. The PROs are the first to switch, because they need a reliable and servicable devices. And I honestly think (hope) it will happen, because right now there is not a single laptop a I would like to buy (16:10 / 3:2, well build & upgradable laptop). Apple needs a hard "kick in the balls" to try harder.

 

[infiniteentropy]

The main reason for me is the reliability of the devices. I could live with all the compromises like the dongles, worse battery life, worse keyboard. I could even live with the touchbar. But I could not live with such an unreliable device.

Seeing this made me realize that this is also a reason for me. The keyboard I was afraid to use as soon as I started to feel some keys stick and so I brought a Magic Keyboard with me nearly everywhere and used it whenever I could (and yes I realize the extended warranty, but it shouldn't be so unreliable in the first place). I had some charging issues (which the Genius couldn't help with) and just general heat issues where the CPU was constantly reaching 100 degrees Celsius whenever doing anything intense and so I was always getting afraid of wear and tear because of lack of cooling (and, again, yes I realize 100 is technically allowed as operating temperature and is within spec... but my replacement Windows machine stays much cooler under even-more-intense loads).

So yeah, I relate to this very much so. Thanks for that, Martius.

 

[silvertech]

Why don’t you just get a new Mac mini? What’s the issue here?

 

[Dkka1]

The thing is I don’t find a cheaper alternative to a Macbook Pro with the same hardware specs (13’’ 256+gb ssd 16gb ram high res screen).

Any suggestions?