Apple Bans App That Allowed Hong Kong Protestors to Track Police Movements [Updated x2]

[russell_314]

"Tsang Chi-kin was shot in the chest at point-blank range on Tuesday"

Way to go fake news for spinning the story leaving out critical parts. Him and his fellow rioters were attacking a police officer with hammers and metal pipes. The guy who was shot just swung at the officer. Go swing a metal pipe at a police officer in the free USA and see what happens.

I'm all for peaceful protest and even war but if you attack violently don't cry when you're attacked back.

 

[Amplelink]

1. It is not clubs or hammers, it was more like a metal tone.
2. I hardly call that the situation life threatening, he was hitting it at their body or hands ( Police with full protective gear)
3. It was shot close range, real bullet, Point Blank.

Were the protestors of violence, yes. Did they deserve the real bullets, I am sorry no matter how you spin it the answer is no. But then of course I guess in United States things might be viewed a little different.

I do understand Apple 's position though. They Apps could be used as such, but should not be labelled and advertise to be used as such. Think of messages apps, you can use it for these communication, but if you label your message apps as only for violence and unlawful action it would hardly get pass any app checking.

Uhh, really dude? Are you listening to yourself? Ever been surrounded by fifteen men, all with the intent to seriously hurt you, swinging at you with metal rods or a hammer? A hammer was definitely involved. It’s evident in the video and one of the news outlets highlighted it.

If I’m in that situation, I’m pulling out any advantage I can get to scare them away. Now would I have actually shot someone? Maybe not. But I wasn’t in those circumstances. What if someone grabbed his gun and shot HIM?

I think it’s pretty ballsy of Apple to pull an app like that at this point in time and they will feel the backlash of this for sure. But the protests are definitely getting out of hand. There’s nothing much peaceful about them anymore.

 

[Jakewilk]

Apple via Cook: people should be free to come illegally to US and violate the laws

Also Apple: we don’t want to hinder the police efforts of a totalitarian state as it crushes free Hong Kong

Dreamers did not arrive in america “illegally,” nor do the majority of them “violate the laws” any more than you or me

 

[Kabeyun]

Protesting is fine. Protesting with tons of violence is not fine. The protestors in Hong Kong currently use waaay too much violence against the police. Does people here understand why the protestors use this app, or are people just Sanders fans and want to allow anything and everything? They track the police for the purpose to use violence. This is not ok regardless of which country it occurs in.

I like Bernie, and I also disapprove of attacking the police if they have a defensive posture. Don’t pigeonhole people because you’ll be wrong a lot and undermine your own argument.

 

[Mansu944]

Well, f@&k you Apple.

 

[sinoka56]

"Tsang Chi-kin was shot in the chest at point-blank range on Tuesday"

Way to go fake news for spinning the story leaving out critical parts. Him and his fellow rioters were attacking a police officer with hammers and metal pipes. The guy who was shot just swung at the officer. Go swing a metal pipe at a police officer in the free USA and see what happens.

I'm all for peaceful protest and even war but if you attack violently don't cry when you're attacked back.

The protestor did not use a metal pipe, he used a PVC pipe.

Video here shows that the police planted the metal pipe to frame the protestor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dcn9ic
A fully police crying for help when they attack unarmored protestors with a lethal gun, bean bag gun or not.

 

[russell_314]

The protestor did not use a metal pipe, he used a PVC pipe.

Video here shows that the police planted the metal pipe to frame the protestor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dcn9ic
A fully police crying for help when they attack unarmored protestors with a lethal gun, bean bag gun or not.

Sorry but if you attack police with a pipe you’re going to get shot. Go swing a PVC pipe at police in the USA and see what happens. I’m at work but I’ll check out the video when I get a break

It’s at night so you expect the officer to say wait a minute let me check that pipe out to see if it’s plastic or not. It’s no different if you try to point a fake gun at the cop

 

[B4U]

The incident in which a protester was recently shot occurred because a group of 15 protesters chased down a cop and attacked him with billy clubs and hammers. If people are using an Apple app to figure out where to attack police officers, I understand that there might be another reason for pulling the app besides slavish compliance with the Chinese government.

Shooting the chest area at point blank?
That is murder right there.
Properly trained police officers do have guidelines.

 

[aylk]

Again, if protesters are using the app to pinpoint the police in order to attack them with clubs, hammers, and incendiaries, you good with that?

Yes, that's fine. The balance of power is still way tilted towards the police.

 

[cocky jeremy]

I’ve read from two separate news agencies they were prodding with umbrellas like they all do over there. First time I’ve heard clubs and hammers. If it was just umbrellas then it was a terrible shoot. If it was hammers and clubs then it was a great shoot.

I’m all for the HK people to be free from communism and China but if they’re just protesting it needs to be non violent.Prodding with umbrellas is ok. Beating with hammers and clubs is not.

Non violent protests usually gets a lot done, huh?

 

[atomic.flip]

This is clearly a controversial topic and certainly a controversial decision (either way). The safer political approach for US politics would be to let the app remain in the store. But I believe that Apple would be compelled to remove an app that tracked law enforcement similar to how they removed apps that crowd shared information about traffic stops, speed traps, DUI checkpoints and so on.

The moral challenge here is the tremendously controversial use of law enforcement resources to force protestors into submission. Personally, given the circumstances I’d leave it online but it sets a somewhat dangerous precedent for law enforcement officials acting in good faith of the public trust.

 

[atomic.flip]

Uhh, really dude? Are you listening to yourself? Ever been surrounded by fifteen men, all with the intent to seriously hurt you, swinging at you with metal rods or a hammer? A hammer was definitely involved. It’s evident in the video and one of the news outlets highlighted it.

If I’m in that situation, I’m pulling out any advantage I can get to scare them away. Now would I have actually shot someone? Maybe not. But I wasn’t in those circumstances. What if someone grabbed his gun and shot HIM?

I think it’s pretty ballsy of Apple to pull an app like that at this point in time and they will feel the backlash of this for sure. But the protests are definitely getting out of hand. There’s nothing much peaceful about them anymore.

With respect, your point is absolutely valid on the matter of being overwhelmed by these protestors. However, what would you do had your country, state or city been absorbed into a communist regime? Having your economic and civil liberties stripped from you after nearly a century of freedom?

What ever your political views, it’s important to consider how such change would affect you personally.

 

[Spizike9]

There are many videos about it. I suggest people watch it and form their own opinion.

Personally, as an expat in HK, I feel the protesters crossed the line awhile ago. In a race to the bottom everyone is a loser.

Edit: here is one from Channel News Asia which is Singaporean.

Dang, thanks for sharing. Good shoot
[automerge]1570115489[/automerge]

Non violent protests usually gets a lot done, huh?

Yeah, when I think about it they typically don’t.

 

[ksec]

Uhh, really dude? Are you listening to yourself? Ever been surrounded by fifteen men, all with the intent to seriously hurt you, swinging at you with metal rods or a hammer? A hammer was definitely involved. It’s evident in the video and one of the news outlets highlighted it.

If I’m in that situation, I’m pulling out any advantage I can get to scare them away. Now would I have actually shot someone? Maybe not. But I wasn’t in those circumstances. What if someone grabbed his gun and shot HIM?

I think it’s pretty ballsy of Apple to pull an app like that at this point in time and they will feel the backlash of this for sure. But the protests are definitely getting out of hand. There’s nothing much peaceful about them anymore.

Read the reply below, it wasn't even Metal rod or hammer. I was wrong in even mentioning metal tone in the first place. The police officer could have shoot into open Air. They have many other tools that could be used in that scenario.

As to those who mention about protesting, 2M of Hong Kong people tried to protest peacefully without any success, in a democratic world they would have lost the election and a new government would have been set up. So you cant really compare protest of a country with democracy in place where they have an option, to a place where no option was given, obey or leave.

I am against violence, but at this point in time the HK police have been the far worst offender.

 

[mudflap]

Apple via Cook: people should be free to come illegally to US and violate the laws

Also Apple: we don’t want to hinder the police efforts of a totalitarian state as it crushes free Hong Kong

Really?

 

[sim667]

I’ve read from two separate news agencies they were prodding with umbrellas like they all do over there. First time I’ve heard clubs and hammers. If it was just umbrellas then it was a terrible shoot. If it was hammers and clubs then it was a great shoot.

I’m all for the HK people to be free from communism and China but if they’re just protesting it needs to be non violent.Prodding with umbrellas is ok. Beating with hammers and clubs is not.

Triads have been paid to attack HK protestors with clubs and hammers, so I suspect the two things are getting conflated.

 

[Juicy Box]

I wonder why Waze is still allowed... What do you say Apple?

SHHHHHHH!

Don't give Apple anymore ideas!

 

[steve217]

"Your app contains content - or facilitates, enables, and encourages an activity - that is not legal ... specifically, the app allowed users to evade law enforcement,”

Apple would have banned Paul Reveres horse.

 

[Devyn89]

Bad move Apple, for a company that champions human rights their presence in China in regards to working conditions and bowing to the Chinese government against the wishes of many Chinese people is really crappy.

 

[Kabeyun]

Shooting the chest area at point blank?
That is murder right there.
Properly trained police officers do have guidelines.

Which include the use of lethal force if someone is trying to murder you. And btw, did the protester die? If not, it’s not murder. If so, it’s homicide but not necessarily murder. Unless you know the law, don’t play with legal terminology. I’m sure all this seems simple from your couch, and that in the middle of the melee the officers must’ve had plenty of time for a rational warning to the guys swinging billy clubs and hammers at their heads, but as I posted above, you should really watch the video footage to understand what actually happened.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Oh Apple.

not only do I question this action by Apple, and think adversely does Google become a beachhead forprogrammers of freedom... I have to concedethis ongoing protest gives rise for a NEED for iOS jailbreak community to thrive and maybe even secret Apple support.

 

[2010mini]

This is a move purely to keep the Chinese government happy. Shame on apple and captain cook.

waze lets you track riot LEO movements?
[automerge]1570125811[/automerge]

Apple via Cook: people should be free to come illegally to US and violate the laws

Also Apple: we don’t want to hinder the police efforts of a totalitarian state as it crushes free Hong Kong

please post where TC said people should be “free to come to the US illegally and violate laws.”

I’ll wait.

 

[2010mini]

"allowed users to evade law enforcement"

Encryption also allows people to "evade law enforcement"'s writs everywhere and protect information that might help law enforcement stay safe. How long until Apple bows to the authoritarians in China? (Or everywhere). Oh wait, they already moved the iCloud servers there and store the encryption keys there so they already did. That sets a poor precedent for the rest of the world.

Apple protects the enforcers of an authoritarian government.

Encryption sole purpose is to safeguard data. Nothing about that is intended to let you evade law enforcement. By your logic ski masks and stockings let you evade law enforcement.

Apple like every other business has to comply with the laws of the country they do business in. Your feelings on that matter is moot.

 

[Kabeyun]

Yes, that's fine. The balance of power is still way tilted towards the police.

Perhaps institutionally, perhaps not. It doesn’t appear so in this scenario. And if we’re not speaking of this scenario, what you’re saying is true of all killings by police, right or wrong. It doesn’t seem appropriate to use the institutional balance of power argument to justify anyone killing anyone.

 

[tshrimp]

It relies on users to report what they find as they drive. Accidents, slow traffic, Red Light Stoplight Cameras, Police Vehicles etc.. It's quite useful.

Seeing Apple do this is shameful - as the App isn't designed to hurt anyone, just provide a situational awareness of whats going on the ground. The other side of this is you cannot rely on companies to protect your rights or stand up for you, because once its more profitable to not do so...they'll make the more profitable choice (or once a different CEO gets into power they'll make that choice).

Also shows the tyranny of having these few companies control total communication - it will eventually be used against the home population when the conditions are right. I feel bad for the HK's. I feel like we're watching a version of pre WW2 Poland again (at least the UK and France aren't saying they'll come to their aid without any intention of doing so this time).

Yep. Not caving into stuff like this (US government request to hack phone, etc) is one of the very few reasons I still used Apple products. What has become of Apple? Censoring speech, removing apps that has views they don't agree with, etc., and now this. I have switched on the computer side, but Google (ABC) is just as bad, so not sure what I will do when my iPhone, and iPad go out.