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[AUT] Thomas

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2016
773
970
Graz [Austria]
This is gonna be interesting... IMHO Apple can only lose here...
If Apple would retreat from Russian and Chinese market these countries would fill the niche of the premium smartphone market within 2-3 years, no doubt. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that Huawei and Xiaomi are not having their own OS yet, especially after the sanctions that hit Huawei's Android phones.
Putin should just come clean and admit the government wants to spy on its people.
1575413857910.png
 

Breaking Good

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2012
1,449
1,225
Tim once again talking tough when it suits him but completely silent about China, Saudi Arabia etc.....

Hence the problem with taking these principled stands as a company or as a country. Sooner or later them come crashing head first into your bottom line or your self interests.

In a way I admire both China and Putin. You always know that China will act in what they perceive to be the best interests of China and Putin will do whatever is necessary to consolidate and expand his power. Americans on the other hand will always claim the moral high road until the first opportunity comes along to sell each other out for a quick dollar.
 
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CHA05 R31GN5

Suspended
Oct 31, 2019
165
259
United States
Waiting for you to actually say something intelligent other than that empty knee jerk reaction. No?
You don't think Apple will pull out of Russia? I don't see them having any option.
or
You don't think this could be the beginning of a very alarming trend in authoritarian countries?
or
You don't think...
Man...you really don't know how to take hints. This coming from someone remotely and having never met you.

I think everything you said previously was so wrong that it's quite difficult to come up with another word to describe how incorrect it is. Quite possibly, you're one of the only people to not interpret "Just...no" as a euphemism. Yet, you were completely dumbfounded. Amazing.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,163
2,428
Apple has NOT handed over any encryption keys nor have they made a ‘back door’ to allow access bypassing security. Now are they pre-installing a Chinese Government made iOS. and while certain apps and services are blocked - China does not seem so concerned with accessing an individuals personal device.
It has been well documented by the media that they are concerned about accessing devices.
Also, if they weren't concerned about individuals' personal data - and if Apple weren't playing along - why is iCloud in China not even operated by Apple themselves?

"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
iCloud services and all the data you store with iCloud, including photos, videos, documents, and backups, will be subject to the new terms and conditions of iCloud operated by GCBD"


https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351

And to quote from these terms and conditions (again, emphasis mine):

"THIS LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. (“GCBD”) GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE ICLOUD PRODUCT, SOFTWARE, SERVICES, AND WEBSITES (COLLECTIVELY REFERRED TO AS THE "SERVICE").
(...)
GCBD is the provider of the Service in the Mainland of China
(...)
You acknowledge and agree that we may, without liability to you, access, use, preserve and/or disclose your Account information and Content to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party, as we believe is reasonably necessary or appropriate, if legally required to do so or if we have a good faith belief that such access, use, disclosure, or preservation is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process or request; (b) enforce this Agreement, including investigation of any potential violation thereof; (c) detect, prevent or otherwise address security, fraud or technical issues; or (d) protect the rights, property or safety of GCBD, its users, Apple, a third party, or the public as required or permitted by applicable law"


https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd-terms.html

Yes, use of iCloud remains, of course, optional - but boy are they shoving it in users' lately! Which begins with setting up a new device and signing in to the App Store. Intending to use iCloud account exclusively for Apple Pay (where iCloud sign-in is required) and Find my iPhone, I have in fact been unable for years to sign in with Apple ID on my iOS devices without some parts of mysteriously enabling themselves and pushing my date to the Cloud. Whether it's game center, photos, notes, contacts - something always seems to turn on itself after signing in on a brand new device.
 
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Bandaman

Cancelled
Aug 28, 2019
2,005
4,091
It has been well documented by the media that they are concerned about accessing devices.
Also, if they weren't concerned about individuals' personal data - and if Apple weren't playing along - why is iCloud in China not even operated by Apple themselves?



And to quote from these terms and conditions (again, emphasis mine):



Yes, use of iCloud remains, of course, optional - but boy are they shoving it in users' lately! Which begins with setting up a new device and signing in to the App Store. Intending to use iCloud account exclusively for Apple Pay (where iCloud sign-in is required) and Find my iPhone, I have in fact been unable for years to sign in with Apple ID on my iOS devices without some parts of mysteriously enabling themselves and pushing my date to the Cloud. Whether it's game center, photos, notes, contacts - something always seems to turn on itself after signing in on a brand new device.
That pretty much takes a fat steamy one all over their privacy claims.
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,749
1,831
Stalingrad, Russia
This makes sense, now that I think about the last time I saw anything for sale that was made in Russia. Cars? Clothing or accessories? Electronics? Food? Name one thing where you’d be like “ooh it’s Russian? Nice!”

You do realise that the US space program is non-existent without Russian rocket engines?

The bigger question on everybody's mind is why "tough Putin" is not dropping US dollar as a reserve currency? Clearly the Central Bank of Russia is working against the Russian economy and has to be dropped like a bad habit.
My best guess is that Putin understands that this could lead to a full scale nuclear confrontation and decides against it in order to save the world. The sentiment that Russia is the last hope for the civilisation on this planet is actually very true.
 
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SeattleMoose

macrumors 68000
Jul 17, 2009
1,960
1,670
Der Wald
Country Laws > Company Laws = Potential Dictatorship/censorship/bias filtering of content (e.g. Putin et al)
Company Laws > Country Laws = Potential Dictatorship/censorship/bias filtering of content (e.g. Leftist Tech companies)

It all depends on the morals/values of those in charge. No matter where they reside.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,087
23,741
Gotta be in it to win it
This is Tim's Apple. He'll even chase the 2 cents saved by removing the spare tip from the Apple Pencil. No chance he walks away from a single Russian sale when he has his "just complying with local laws" excuse ready to go.
Yep, the "just complying with local laws" covers a lot of territory and makes a lot of this nonsense criticism go away. Just trot it out when needed.
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,275
3,696
How is this different than the bloatware on Windows and Android phone? This been happening for years
 

DaveN

macrumors 6502a
May 1, 2010
903
752
Oh yeah, it is so hard to download programs from the App Store. SMH
 
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Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
How would this be equivalent to jailbreak'ing?

We have issues with the government spying on us, not users we 'trust' to install questionable software

I get it may only "start off" as those "supporters" but it will escalate to everyone behind its done..

Besides, ts not even a question as to "why we were not told" when the government went behind our back...

Is anyone really shocked? You shouldn't be.. because its the only way to avoid this the side effects anyway.

And we know it.
 

Seoras

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2007
756
2,001
Scotsman in New Zealand
Man...you really don't know how to take hints. This coming from someone remotely and having never met you.

I think everything you said previously was so wrong that it's quite difficult to come up with another word to describe how incorrect it is. Quite possibly, you're one of the only people to not interpret "Just...no" as a euphemism. Yet, you were completely dumbfounded. Amazing.

Hints? I'm waiting for anything remotely analytical, informative or opinionated from you other than hollow words and snideness. Do you have something to actually to say, then say it. Don't chicken out.
I suspect though that you just really just have nothing to say and will continue to do so...
 

Judo

macrumors regular
Mar 6, 2002
202
154
New Zealand
But socialism is so awesome. I learned that from AOC. She is smart.

she has to be.
she went to college.
she wears glasses.

This doesn’t really have anything to do with socialism. Yes, AOC is quite smart and thoughtful. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here?
 
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BvizioN

macrumors 603
Mar 16, 2012
5,701
4,819
Manchester, UK
I actually really want to see Apple pull out of the Russian market.

Then, i want to see China demand that all smartphones have government mandated apps preinstalled.

Would Apple pull out of the Chinese market? Or would they make an exception/excuse for China? That would be fun to watch.

Apple does not have dominance in the Chinese market. Far from it. Not sure how much they sell in Chine but they do have fierce competition over there. And yes, I believe if China did that too, Apple will get the **** out of their market. Because that would go against everything Apple stands for.
 

urtules

macrumors 6502
Jul 30, 2010
319
348
Pull out of China, Russia, Saudi and every other dictatorship... If every company did this we’d probably be living in a better world today, but money is all that matters.
The problem with total economic blockout it's not effective and is bad for everyone. It led to the cold war and almost led to the mutual atomic destruction. It's better if we have relationships even with such extreme dictatorship like China, if we have more in common there's less reasons to destroy each other.
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You mean countries like the United States? Seriously, are you even looking at what's happening in the US?
One populist president doesn't changes foundations in which US stands for and hopefully will always stands for. So I suggest you actually take a better research what actual situation is, and what actually happening instead of reading left headliners.
 
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himanshumodi

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2012
643
881
India
i wish this was "Equivalent to Jailbreaking"
i wouldn't have to wait for exploits, i'd just pay a reshipper and buy straight out of Russia.

good job threatening me with a good time Apple ?

Ha! that's right. Jailbreakers love jailbreaking. And people who don't jailbreak, don't care about it one way or the other. Apple picked a stupid simile there.
 

mr.bee

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2007
750
468
Antwerp, belgium
Typical Russia, why can't they be as sneaky as China?

If Russia demands that all Russian data is managed by a Russian company, just as in China with Chinese data, then this was a whole other story and reply.

Instead they are bulldozing end users with bloated spyware? pssshhh... you'd almost think they can't be that clever to meddle with elections in other countries.
 

CHA05 R31GN5

Suspended
Oct 31, 2019
165
259
United States
Hints? I'm waiting for anything remotely analytical, informative or opinionated from you other than hollow words and snideness. Do you have something to actually to say, then say it. Don't chicken out.
I suspect though that you just really just have nothing to say and will continue to do so...
You've provided none other than clueless thoughts about economies. Apple's not leaving their 40% market share in Russia. If you don't get that, then drift off in your own unrealistic thoughts and don't try to pollute others with delusions of grandeur for Apple.
 
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