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Garage Battle

macrumors regular
Aug 31, 2007
178
172
Orlando, FL
not to sound like a super dick but I dont care what Tim Cook thinks about DACA. Apple isnt a privately owned company.

iOS13 has concerning bugs and the macbooks have been trash for years. desktop has been a joke for far too long. guy road in on steves coattails and eventually it will wear off.

Besides making great products the only other thing he should be speaking up on is digitial privacy and transparency. Standing ground that free speech is a cornerstone to america and doing everything in Apples power to protect it. Tim could start by kicking Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook off the app store until they get inline as well.

Btw this forum is insanely based - ill try to post here more often.
 

DoctorTech

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2014
736
1,962
Indianapolis, IN
Total respect to Tim on this.
Very refreshing to see this kind of decency. Too many people are truly selfish and cruel at the moment. The world will not survive if 'humans' carry on with their cruelty and greed.
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Incredibly selfish and typical uncaring response there. Tim is not responsible for delivering software. Not too sure that many CEO's of highly successful companies are responsible for delivering software. They have a thousand other things to do.
Simon Sinek wrote in his newest book, "The Infinite Game", that "Leaders are not responsible for results, they are responsible for the people who are responsible for results." I've said before that I frequently disagree with Tim Cook's politics but I still admire him as a person and a leader.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
Then run for President or Congress. Sorry, but signing a piece of paper espousing some view isn't fighting for anything. He is sitting on a massive amount of wealth which gives a rather large platform to advance whatever political views he wants, but like so many other celebrities and billionaires, he talks big talk without having to actually do anything.
 
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citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,781
25,518
Simon Sinek wrote in his newest book, "The Infinite Game", that "Leaders are not responsible for results, they are responsible for the people who are responsible for results." I've said before that I frequently disagree with Tim Cook's politics but I still admire him as a person and a leader.

Same here. In this case, with respect to DACA, he's looking out and standing up for Apple's (and his) employees who are here due to DACA.

I don't expect Cook to take a stand on the political affairs of other countries. That advocacy is the domain of the US government and State Department. That is precisely why other United States CEOs, tech and non-tech, don't meddle in the political affairs of other countries (though that hasn't stopped oil companies in the past).

With respect to anything that relates to the United States and Apple, Cook has an obligation to stand up for Apple as a company, its employees, and its customers. And he's doing an outstanding job on that.
 
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smaffei

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2003
595
1,899
If DACA is a good idea, Congress should pass legislation. You do not want a president making such policy, because even if you don’t care about the Constitution or separation of powers, someday, there will be a president in office that you don’t like. For some, that was Obama. For others, it’s Trump. Do you want the executive order of a president you don’t like to become law forever?

Well, that's the problem in a nutshell. Congress has been kicking this can down the road for 30+ years that I know of. Legislators don't want to deal with immigration because it's a lose-lose for them. Whatever side they land on, this issue will lose them votes and we all know it's about the votes. So, there's no motivation for them to address it. Hence, the executive order bandaid to the problem. How about, we address this disfunction in our government first?
 
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gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Actually just the opposite. Under DACA, you have work authorization and need to be paid minimum wage. Once you lose that status, companies will try to pay below minimum wage behind closed doors.
They will also try to get someone to work without paying income tax etc.
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Timmy Timmy Timmy... . Why won't you ever stand up for real legal Americans!?
Remember that the majority of Apple's customers don't give a **** about real legal Americans. But the majority care about people being treated fairly.
 

m4mario

macrumors 6502
May 10, 2017
499
1,438
San Francisco Bay Area
He says stuff like this and it comes off so genuine.

But then like 2 days ago, he stands next to a man that is completely at odds with all of his supposedly important core beliefs.

I get the argument that one side is personal and the other is business. But TO ME, it makes his statements in the article seem hollow.
Just because you disagree with some one on some topics does not mean you are constantly in tension with them. Especially when it is the elected government.

At any point of time, 50% of the country is against the elected government, on everything. This is not the way a democracy should work.

On topics you agree on with the elected government, you work together with it. On topics you disagree on, you meet up with the representatives and preset your case. You fight the issue, not the people. Thats a degree of maturity that not many demonstrate. Tim Cook has it in spades.
 

JRobinsonJr

macrumors 6502a
Aug 20, 2015
667
1,205
Arlington, Texas
He says stuff like this and it comes off so genuine.

But then like 2 days ago, he stands next to a man that is completely at odds with all of his supposedly important core beliefs.

I get the argument that one side is personal and the other is business. But TO ME, it makes his statements in the article seem hollow.

While I understand your point (though don't agree) it is both possible and practical for people to hold many views - some in line and others at odds - while still working toward a common set of goals. If we only worked / associated with people that matched all of our core beliefs most of us would have to live alone in a cave somewhere.
 

Rique

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2011
168
97
Northern Virginia
This is a manufactured wedge issue that Congress is using to energize certain voting blocs.

All Congress has to do
  1. Update immigration program to be pro-America in the sense that we take in people and fast track those immigrants that actually benefit the US. For example, Indian computer science engineers ... that we don't want to go back overseas after studying at Stanford, MIT, etc. Stop making them wait an entire decade or more to get their citizenship!
  2. Grant a temporary amnesty to those that came here illegally. Make them pay a fine and go through a ten-year process to get legal citizenship. If they fail, deport. You don't want everyone to stay here that won't be productive citizens. .
  3. Grant amnesty to children that are born here. Preferably to parents that have applied for temporary amnesty.
  4. Build the wall to strengthen the newly updated immigration program from step 1.

With the exception of point 4 (which I personally consider to be a waste of money and resources), you offer up reasonable suggestions. Thank you.
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Built my first pc in years, migrating off osx this weekend. Bye Tim Cooked!

Been there, done that, tried it. Got the t-shirt, even. With regard to Windows, what an abusive relationship - I am so glad to be back with Apple gear and won't look back unless and until Apple gives up on MacOS. Still, I wish you well - you may have more patience than I did (patience is a requirement!).
 
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Khedron

Suspended
Sep 27, 2013
2,561
5,755
Actually just the opposite. Under DACA, you have work authorization and need to be paid minimum wage. Once you lose that status, companies will try to pay below minimum wage behind closed doors.

Apple is one of the richest companies in the world. If they’re only paying their employees minimum wage then the system is already broken enough.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,087
23,743
Gotta be in it to win it
not to sound like a super dick but I dont care what Tim Cook thinks about DACA. Apple isnt a privately owned company.
...
Tim probably doesn't care about what the naysayers think either. But are you saying if Tim didn't support some social causes, there would be less bugs in ios 13? (Disclosure, I'm not having any real issues with ios 13)
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Apple is one of the richest companies in the world. If they’re only paying their employees minimum wage then the system is already broken enough.
So all of the Apple's employees are getting paid minimum wage?
 

hellopupy

macrumors 6502
Sep 8, 2016
334
359
Los Angeles
Well, that's the problem in a nutshell. Congress has been kicking this can down the road for 30+ years that I know of. Legislators don't want to deal with immigration because it's a lose-lose for them. Whatever side they land on, this issue will lose them votes and we all know it's about the votes. So, there's no motivation for them to address it. Hence, the executive order bandaid to the problem. How about, we address this disfunction in our government first?

Whats funny is Trump offered a deal for DACA recipients and the democrats did not want it, now they may lose everything because they got greedy.

Even though many DACA recipients have also went on and became criminals, those who have maintained good status, got jobs and started families, should be allowed to stay. Send the criminals out, we should only be rewarding good behavior, not bad.
 
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Detnator

macrumors 6502a
Nov 25, 2011
515
452
I'm more concerned about the buggy software Apple has been releasing this year and that has been impacting my life! This guy should shut up and stick to his job - or else quit and run for political office.


Whether or not Tim here is truly fighting for some moral cause or only those 450 Apple employees, if he’s fighting *at least* for those 450 Apple employees to keep their jobs here, he’s doing his job. We should all be so lucky to have a CEO who would fight the nation’s “leader” for us to keep our jobs.
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Maybe if he paid half as much time focusing on Apple instead of politics, we'd have an iPhone 5 like design with an OS that actually works like iOS 6 did instead of the garbage we have today. SMH


They tried an iPhone 5 like design (SE). A few MacRumors readers bought it and not many others. Yes I’m exaggerating to make a point. The point is, it didn’t sell enough meaning not enough people want it and therefore to care about Apple means to can it. Which he did. So what’s your point, exactly?

Also... iOS 6? I seem to recall that was map-gate wasn’t it? All software has bugs. Some more than others. Don’t know about you, but I’ve found Catalina to be incredibly stable and sound. And with all the new Macs coming out solving problem after problem (16” MBP, MP, etc) That customers were complaining about, I think Apple are doing a pretty darn good job of listening....? Did Steve ever listen to customers this much?

Some people just have to find something to complain about I guess.

All that said I’m genuinely curious. What’s so bad about iOS 13? It’s working very well for me. Sure, some issues. But no more than ever before. what’s the problem?
 
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PastaPrimav

Suspended
Nov 6, 2017
929
1,494
If DACA is a good idea, Congress should pass legislation. You do not want a president making such policy, because even if you don’t care about the Constitution or separation of powers, someday, there will be a president in office that you don’t like. For some, that was Obama. For others, it’s Trump. Do you want the executive order of a president you don’t like to become law forever?
I agree. Unfortunately, Congress has no term limits and is presently infested with people who do not have the American people's interests in mind, at all.
 

fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Steve made all sorts of bad decisions, created terrible services and some bad products, and people still remember him. Tim Cook will be remembered long after he dies, as most famous people are. Tim has done far more to better the world we all live in than Steve ever did.
Steve cofounded Apple then brought it back from the dead decades later. Tim Cook doesn't compare.
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If DACA is a good idea, Congress should pass legislation. You do not want a president making such policy, because even if you don’t care about the Constitution or separation of powers, someday, there will be a president in office that you don’t like. For some, that was Obama. For others, it’s Trump. Do you want the executive order of a president you don’t like to become law forever?
Yeah, I'm really in favor of immigration, but DACA is the worst possible way to do it. It was a desperate and irresponsible move by Obama. You can't blame Trump for putting these innocent people into limbo without blaming Obama for gambling with them in the first place.
 
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mytdave

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2002
620
800
DACA people are here illegally. Plain a simple. But Americans are not heartless, cause it's not the fault of the kids. Most folks are okay with finding some plan to allow existing DACA "kids" to stay, but removing the disasterous edict that caused the problem in the first place, and then to make sure it doesn't happen any more going forward.
 

JagdTiger

macrumors 6502
Dec 20, 2017
479
696
You have a link that any major company is paying below minimum wage?
If honestly minimum wage is supposed to at least $23.00 dollars to get by with then yes almost if not all manufactures or companies are paying below minimum wage.
 

Mr.Bigglesworth

macrumors regular
Sep 9, 2016
159
236
Timmy loves to support the Chinese. He loves to support illegal immigrants.

Does this guy just hate America or just not thankful that Americans are responsible for making him rich?
You are sounding like a boomer who lives deep in the woods of New Hampshire and doesn’t leave his lazy boy.

Tim “ loves the Chinese “ because they keep costs down. That’s a no brainer.

How does he hate America ? Because he actually pays attention to what is going on and realizes what this great nation stands for ? Illegal immigration is what it is because our government allows it to be what it is. It’s vital to this countries economy for iilegal immigrants to come in here the way they are coming in and work for the scraps that they are working for. If not, the bacon and beer that you most definitely eat for breakfast will cost you a fortune. This is simple economics. But that’s a different topic. I applaud cook for being in the position he is in and actually doing something about it.

Americans are not apples only customer. You probably don’t get out much to see that EVERYONE world wide buys and uses Apple products.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,087
23,743
Gotta be in it to win it
Fighting to protect his company is what a CEO is expected to do. Carefully choosing to only fight social/political battles that don't financially impact your company to appear as righteous makes him an insufferable hypocrite.
Seems like he picks causes that are important to him. That’s the opposite of hypocritical. At some level cook does what he wants and his critics be damned.
 

BootsWalking

macrumors 68020
Feb 1, 2014
2,267
14,181
Seems like he picks causes that are important to him. That’s the opposite of hypocritical. At some level cook does what he wants and his critics be damned.

By that reasoning personal freedom, human rights, and individual privacy in places like China are not important to Mr. Cook since he hasn't "picked" them as causes.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,087
23,743
Gotta be in it to win it
By that reasoning personal freedom, human rights, and individual privacy in places like China are not important to Mr. Cook since he hasn't "picked" them as causes.
False equivalency. Who makes up the priorities of what should be dealt with? You?

Are you next going to say privacy isn’t important to cook in China because of iCloud hosting? Are you ceasing all purchases in China due to political situation? And if you’re not, why should cook deal with them first before other important items?
 
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