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jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,505
6,173
Oklahoma
You are correct that "development" took place under Tim Cook's watch, but concept and initial design work began in 2011 before Job's death. Cook picked up the idea and ran with it, but to say it was Cook's conceptualized brainchild is incorrect.
My understanding was that Steve Jobs was not fond of the idea of a smartwatch any time someone brought it up to him, which is why serious work on the project began after his death. Are you aware of reporting to the contrary, that Steve Jobs was behind the Apple Watch?
 
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PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
You are correct that "development" took place under Tim Cook's watch, but concept and initial design work began in 2011 before Job's death. Cook picked up the idea and ran with it, but to say it was Cook's conceptualized brainchild is incorrect.
According to Ive it all happened after Jobs, Ive also said Jobs was interested in doing a watch.

Also, I didn’t say it was Cook’s conceptualized brainchild, just that it was Tim Cook era vs. Steve Jobs era.
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,308
1,558
Based on the limited info on my post perhaps it's easy to think so.

I focus on the issue and not on the "party". I'm an American citizen but I don't identify as Republican or Democrat, Liberal nor Conservative (or any of the other breakdowns that exist).

I haven't really counted to see where I fall... In some I'm a righty: Guns, abortion, gender definition (binary), LGBT adoption of children, religious freedom (Christian)

In others, I'm a lefty: immigration, LGBT rights (except the above), antifa, taxes, separation of church and state, religious freedom (believe what you want, even Atheism), pro-science, anti-Trump (him and his fans are the Jedi to my Sith, even if a broken clock is right at least twice a day).

But generally, I'd say I'm inclusive so perhaps yes, a right-leaning lefty.

I like to think most people are not hard-left nor right.

I know the above opens me for some flaming, but still, this is just my opinion and I'm open to discussion.

Please keep it civil, though.
oh, i didn't mean you're more left in the partisan sense, but in a broader ideological sense.
Although after your breakdown, i'm not so sure anymore :D
 

TheFluffyDuck

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2012
741
1,859
Apple is still a pretty white-centric company.

So what? America is predominantly white, this shouldn't be surprising that a national company reflects the predominantly white make up of the country.
Stop worrying about cosmetic culture war BS, and start worrying about the fact that Apple are international Tax dodgers, who will gladly put on a rainbow flag anywhere they can to sucker in the progressive dollar, while bending the knee to a murderous authoritarian state just for profits.
This generation is going to be side swiped by an economic disaster in the next few years, in-part due to corporate corruption of which Apple is a contender, and all this progressive navel gazing and minority stamp collecting that you think is so important, is going to be the last thing on everybody's minds.
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,308
1,558
So what? America is predominantly white, this shouldn't be surprising that a national company reflects the predominantly white make up of the country.
Stop worrying about cosmetic culture war BS, and start worrying about the fact that Apple are international Tax dodgers, who will gladly put on a rainbow flag anywhere they can to sucker in the progressive dollar, while bending the knee to a murderous authoritarian state just for profits.
This generation is going to be side swiped by an economic disaster in the next few years, in-part due to corporate corruption of which Apple is a contender, and all this progressive navel gazing and minority stamp collecting is going to be the last thing on everybody's minds.
hm, can't disagree with where you steer the post at the end.
But all those corporations are HaRdWoRk and DeTeRmInAtIoN
 
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ajfahey

macrumors 6502a
Jun 28, 2001
684
897
Moorpark, CA
Apple product development and innovation has been missing in action since Steve died and Tim took control. It's not at all clear that anyone knows that diversity results in better products. It could be argued that his apparent focus on PC diversity has been central to the demise of the shine that was once Apple.
 
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PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
Apple product development and innovation has been missing in action since Steve died and Tim took control. It's not at all clear that anyone knows that diversity results in better products. It could be argued that his apparent focus on PC diversity has been central to the demise of the shine that was once Apple.
Could it? I’d like to see someone try to make that argument. Not sure if I would agree or disagree.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,792
25,545
I'm glad that things appear to be working out for you, but the great thing about jobs in that case and which is missing from Tim's legacy, is that Steve Jobs set up Tim as his successor not caring whether or what his sexual orientation was. nor did Jobs publicize it to the world that he chose Tim because 'he is non-straight' - he chose him because he thought he was the best person to take over Apple. this is how equality should work - Without virtue signaling but by actually just 'doing' And choosing the best person for that position.

There is a perfectly good faith argument to take in this debate when it comes to who to hire, which does not overemphasize attributes like sexuality, skin color or immigration status. Some people seem to be under the impression that the latter three are more important attributes than anything else with regard to filling a position.
I would prefer my work equipment to be made by the most competent engineers led by a person with a sound to technological vision, so that I can continue the important work that I do for society. In the Steve Jobs area he just focused on making great tools for people to use, whereas under Tim Cook it's less about making tools and more about making statements and "life style" signaling.

One should focus on what one is good at either Apple should make those products or Tim Cook should become an activist or politician so that he could actually have an informed philosophical position on what he claims his beliefs are (Though as we have seen in the Hong Kong situation when push comes to shove of he does not seem to help those positions that firmly)

And the good news is, Tim Cook excellent at focusing on both. You may not be aware that some people have the ability of being good at more than one thing. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. And certainly with respect to Apple and Tim Cook, it isn't. The evidence is that there are many millions of people who willingly open their wallets to purchase Apple products at premium prices year after year after year.
 
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Darth Tulhu

macrumors 68020
Apr 10, 2019
2,161
3,566
Apple product development and innovation has been missing in action since Steve died and Tim took control. It's not at all clear that anyone knows that diversity results in better products. It could be argued that his apparent focus on PC diversity has been central to the demise of the shine that was once Apple.

I don't think the "focus on PC diversity" has anything to do with it. You may be connecting two unrelated things.

I feel Tim is not a product guy, he's a profit guy, and that's why there's been a "decline" after Steve died.

Steve was certainly a product (first) guy.

That said, the Apple Watch, Airpods, A-series chips, and Pencil show that development and innovation are not completely dead at Apple. But all of those drive the profit machine that is iOS, so his focus is there.

I DON'T like what Tim has done with the Mac and OS X...ahem... macOS, but I can't deny that when it comes to iOS (and iOS-driven things above) he's done (fairly) well.

Hopefully his attention will turn to the Mac's problems next, but judging by the new Mac Pro we'll pay DEARLY for it, given his profit-driven nature.
 
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MarkB786

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2016
755
1,304
USA
Total rehash by Tim. Not only is he out of product ideas, but he now also appears to be out of fresh social topics.
 
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spotlight07

macrumors regular
Mar 28, 2007
170
104
I'm glad that things appear to be working out for you, but the great thing about jobs in that case and which is missing from Tim's legacy, is that Steve Jobs set up Tim as his successor not caring whether or what his sexual orientation was. nor did Jobs publicize it to the world that he chose Tim because 'he is non-straight' - he chose him because he thought he was the best person to take over Apple. this is how equality should work - Without virtue signaling but by actually just 'doing' And choosing the best person for that position.

There is a perfectly good faith argument to take in this debate when it comes to who to hire, which does not overemphasize attributes like sexuality, skin color or immigration status. Some people seem to be under the impression that the latter three are more important attributes than anything else with regard to filling a position.
I would prefer my work equipment to be made by the most competent engineers led by a person with a sound to technological vision, so that I can continue the important work that I do for society. In the Steve Jobs area he just focused on making great tools for people to use, whereas under Tim Cook it's less about making tools and more about making statements and "life style" signaling.

One should focus on what one is good at either Apple should make those products or Tim Cook should become an activist or politician so that he could actually have an informed philosophical position on what he claims his beliefs are (Though as we have seen in the Hong Kong situation when push comes to shove of he does not seem to help those positions that firmly)
My point was that Steve Jobs knew Tim Cook was gay and Steve Jobs didn't pass over him because of it, which I'm sorry to say, happens sometimes. Where I live, you can be fired for being gay. Heterosexuality was not Steve Jobs' cross to bear, as no one feared that the Apple Lisa was "signaling" a heterosexual lifestyle. Nor would it have been appropriate for Steve to out Tim. But Steve Jobs did talk about being adopted and surviving cancer publicly and those were some of his challenges in life.
 

mixel

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2006
1,729
976
Leeds, UK
You hate people because of the Color of their Skin?
Isn't that "Racism"?
Jeeez, the reaching. Wilful trolling or do you actually think this sort of thing?

Pointing out a lack of diversity doesn't mean you hate white people.
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Apple product development and innovation has been missing in action since Steve died and Tim took control. It's not at all clear that anyone knows that diversity results in better products. It could be argued that his apparent focus on PC diversity has been central to the demise of the shine that was once Apple.
That really couldn't be argued at all, lol. Good luck though.
 
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LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
Jeeez, the reaching. Wilful trolling or do you actually think this sort of thing?

Pointing out a lack of diversity doesn't mean you hate white people.

To those in position of privilege, losing said privilege can seem like oppression.

I am NOT defending the position that the comment was racist against white people. But just pointing out that a lot of people, especially white individuals (Which I am also), when no longer getting the benefit of the privileges of just being white, will equate and feel oppressed by it.

it's nonsense and hogwash of course. But "feelings over facts" are the political MO's of today.
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
This post seems like more of a screed against Grindr than anything else.

I can assure you that my first gay "experience" was far more sordid than the one you've imagined. This was a long time ago, before Grindr, before iPhone, before the Internet, before the Mac, and before the Commodore 64. It involved a perfect stranger and took place inside an iconic landmark that 20-90 million people saw on their televisions each week in the opening credits of a hit TV show.

I've never used Grindr, and it doesn't appeal to me. Partly because I came of age making eye contact with attractive strangers across crowded, smoky (and later smoke-free) bars. But mostly because I've been off the market for longer than Grinder has been around.

If Grindr didn't exist, then something would take its place. It was (so I heard) a major use that people had for Craig's List. Before that, there were AOL chat rooms. Baths, bars, gas station rest rooms, sand dunes, etc. You're not going to stop gay teens from having that first "experience". But, just maybe, with high profile role models such as Cook and positive images for gay people in popular culture, more gay teens can be out at a younger age, and they can loose their innocence the way their heterosexual cohorts do: with their date on Prom Night.
Sand dunes? o_O Ouch! Never let it be said our generation didn’t have true grit!😆

Is this the equivalent of “In my day, we walked to school through five feet of snow. School was 10 miles away and we had to chop wood for the old stove.”
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The fact that Steve Jobs made Tim Cook his successor implied that even Steve Jobs himself didn’t think it was necessary that the CEO of Apple be a product person.

I will also say that depending on the way the company is structured, it may not need to be his biggest forte.

Up to the point when Jony Ive left Apple, it would appear that the way things were organised is that Jony Ive basically took over Steve Job’s role as product visionary (which is why I am fine with Tim Cook being hands off when it comes to product design, because I knew there was someone else overseeing this area).

Meanwhile, Tim Cook’s greatest contribution is allowing Apple to actually have sufficient quantities of products to sell. Because the best-designed product in the world is moot if you can’t manufacture enough of them to sell.

Given the scale at which Apple operates today, the importance of securing Apple’s supply chain cannot be understated.

Also, I think it’s also worth noting that it’s Steve Jobs who ran Apple in an atypical manner. If anything, Steve Jobs was able to do what he did precisely he outsourced his traditional CEO duties to Tim Cook. So the irony here isn’t that Tim Cook is not doing his work, but that we are basically celebrating Steve Job not doing his, while blaming Tim Cook for discharging his CEO duties perfectly.

I will also go so far as to asset that the next person taking over as CEO of Apple should also have an operations background, like Jeff Williams.
That is quite an interesting way to look at it that I hadn’t thought of before.
 
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J InTech82

macrumors 6502
Aug 10, 2013
375
353
Total rehash by Tim. Not only is he out of product ideas, but he now also appears to be out of fresh social topics.
You know, it’s not the CEOs job to come up with products right? Do you think the CEO of Coke has come up with anything new in a long time? If ever?

For all the people who are haters about Tim talking about his sexuality. Tim is allowed to talk about whatever he wants. He’s actually a very private person. Just because he represents Apple doesn’t mean he has to talk about Apple 24/7. Do all of you talk about the company you work for all the time?

As far as why he came out, to give hope to those that don’t think they can succeed in this world will have a new outlook on life. A lot of LGTBQ youth get bullied, beat and even killed because of their sexuality. That is not okay. The more successful people we see that are gay, that come out, the more hope our LGTBQ youth has hope, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People, regardless of what their sexuality, or their race, deserve equal rights.

It’s as of people don't want Apple to succeed, which is what Tim has been stirring the company to do.

Steve has many failures in his career. Look them up. Tim is leaving the innovation up to those that are employed to do so. If Steve wanted another idea person as the CEO, he would not have chosen Tim, instead I think he chose Tim because he knows what it takes to make Apple a successful company, which clearly by their market share, mind share and profits, they are.
 
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aaronhead14

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,224
5,285
Geez, Tim, just make your products functional and consistent. That’s what everyone wants from you, not this political talk. Do your job. Get that USB-C iPhone made already. It’s 3 years past due. And release the dang Mac Pro.
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
Then we wouldn't be human. Schema and bias are fundamental human attributes that need to be acknowledged by each person so they can be actively managed by the individual.

But as you said here "managed by the individual"

what we do tend to see, especially in this hyper-partisan world, is that when one is presented with their own failings of prejudices, instead of questioning those prejudices, they lash out.

How many threads in PRSI exist, where someone said something overtly racist, only to deflect against being called out for it with some excuse why what they're saying isn't racist (We're taking it back!) or "Freedom of speech!" issue of it.

So while you're right. We all have our own fundamental biases from our relative viewpoints. And we all have to manage them ourselves.

There are way way too many people today who are now proud of those biases, especially if they hurt others and refuse to even acknowledge those biases.
 
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Darryl.Jenks

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2014
133
634
Self-absorbed
Fascinating stuff. Really. I mean it. I hope the CEO of Discount Tire will tell me how she or he feels about something equally relevant to the products I buy, like which flavor of ice cream they think is best, or maybe what music selections provide the right motivation for his or her Peloton sessions.
 
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