How much of the national debt goes to funding education?
My example was to demonstrate that letting people fall and not providing the tools to allow them to pick themselves up only makes the problem worse in the long run.
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Apple CEO Tim Cook Urges U.S. Senate to Pass the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act
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My example was to demonstrate that letting people fall and not providing the tools to allow them to pick themselves up only makes the problem worse in the long run.
Did anyone suggest otherwise? But as long as people are here illegally and are not deported in a timely manner, why not make the most of it? (This, of course, does ignore the numerous problems with the legal immigration process.)
Yes, that sounds terrible. Sounds like we agree that education needs to be improved, so unless you think that's going to happen for free, I assume you're prepared to pony up in the form of reallocated or increased taxes?
I didn't say private property rights and individual liberty are the same thing. However they are mutually dependent. One cannot be free without the right to his/her personal property (and limited government ability to take it).
And it is not far fetched to think that some immigrants do not value these things when many are simply trying to enter and be dependent on the state. They don't have a problem with it being taken from me and given to them - I've lost my personal property rights and my individual liberty has been reduced because the collective deems it "better" this way.
You didn’t really ever respond to my post. You just tried to discredit my ideas with some irrelevant assertions about my experience.
How would asking poor people how they ended up and remain poor be sufficient to understand the situation? Judging from modern political campaigns their answer as to why they are poor would be because someone didn’t give them enough free stuff. People are often pretty ignorant as to cause and effect and then many simply lie. So just asking poor people why there is poor doesn’t really tell you much.
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Corporations break the law with impunity second only to politicians.
That's the collective mindset. I have pointed out that Americanism is rooted in individual liberty, not social engineering and the requirement for everyone to be required to take care of everyone. That's not to say that there are not collective benefits, that is the primary argument of educating our kids, right? As far as the amount of education funds, I was more speaking to the under funding of safety net programs in general. Again, this is not the purpose of government.
If we are to look the other way and "make the most of it", where does it end? This thread is discussing the problems with legal (the bill in the subject) immigration.
NO NO NO NO, I am not prepared to pony up MORE tax money. If you haven't followed, I am disgusted by the curriculum being fed to our kids as it is now. This is not a MONEY problem! The government needs to get out of the way... enough with federal mandates, let the local governments have more control and say in education... how about charter schools... there are many ways to improve education without throwing more money and centralized control at it.
Simple. Because the open borders advocates have won this argument by conflating those that stand in line and those that break the law. When you have gotten AP to eliminate the use of "Illegal Alien" which is the LEGAL definition of the act from their stylebook you have won.![]()
Apple CEO Tim Cook this week tweeted in support of the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, urging the U.S. Senate to move quickly to pass the bipartisan bill, which would eliminate per-country limits on employment-based green cards and increase per-country limits for family-sponsored green cards.
![ap_keynote_2017_wrap_up_tim_cook.jpg]()
"Immigrants make this country stronger and our economy more dynamic," said Cook. "As a first step toward needed comprehensive reform, I urge the Senate to move quickly to pass the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act. The contributions of these workers are critical to America's future."
The U.S. House of Representatives passed the High-Skilled Immigrants Act in July, but the Senate has so far blocked the bill.
Apple and Cook frequently back pro-immigration legislation. Earlier this month, for example, Cook lent his name to Apple's amicus brief with the U.S. Supreme Court in support of DACA, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals immigration policy that protects "Dreamers" from deportation.
Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.
Article Link: Apple CEO Tim Cook Urges U.S. Senate to Pass the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act
Part of what "individual liberty" in this sense means to me (and, from what I read, to many) is the ability to make what you want of life. If you have money, in the US, you absolutely have liberty. (I would go so far as to say that liberty scales pretty directly with financial means.) But if you don't, and even a small mistake or unexpected circumstance outside your control can potentially send you into financial ruin, that's not liberty. Not when the ability to even participate in modern society is increasingly tied to at least a minimal level of financial means.
So you want to (a) make kids suffer for life because they were taken into the country illegally and (b) do everything possible to send them back, even after the money has been spent? That's the current system, and it ends by either turning the US into a police state (throwing liberty rather out the window) or implementing reasonable paths to legal immigration, and then stepping up enforcement for the alternatives, if there's still a problem.
Unfortunately, designing and teaching a great curriculum are both difficult jobs requiring specific training and skillsets that take time and experience to develop. A good education system requires good funding, however you implement it.
We do have talented citizens - This is all about cheap labor.
Both documented and undocumented. Especially in agriculture (Central Valley and coastal areas) and services. And they both pay taxes and Social Security. California is doing exceptionally well financially, and they have greatly contributed.
And btw, undocumented immigrants do not vote.
Is our whole education system such **** that we can’t fill these positions with American workers? Why does America have such a shortage of workers for what are arguably high wage jobs? Or is the problem that Americans don’t want to fill these jobs?
I mean if American worker shortages are that bad, then what Apple wants needs to come with serious caveats. Like for every legal immigrant hired, 2 american workers must be hired. In order to hire a legal immigrant over an American, Apple must show proof that none of the American workers that applied are qualified for that position. Apple must sponsor every immigrant they hire and are legally and financially responsible for that immigrant while employed by Apple. The immigrant must become a US citizen within 5 years.
You do know Apple's been growing their other offices, particularly the one in Texas, pretty heavily over the last few years?
Not only is Texas a much cheaper place to live, it's also a place with much less strict labor laws laws than much of the country. It's also worth pointing out that we're talking about people on H1B visas here, which have been heavily criticized over the years due essentially being a form of indentured servitude, which in turn is a form of slavery.
Shut up Timmy. We already know you're allergic to hiring Americans.
Nice and easy for you traitor CEOs to dump immigrant labor anytime you want without having to worry about lawsuits and unemployment insurance.
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The USA is filled with CEOs who would throw American workers under the bus in a heartbeat. Timmy is one of them.
I call them traitors.
Nice and easy for you traitor CEOs to dump immigrant labor anytime you want without having to worry about lawsuits and unemployment insurance.
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We do have them, Disney for one fired their American workers and forced them to train the H1's in order to get their severance pay.
The USA is filled with CEOs who would throw American workers under the bus in a heartbeat. Timmy is one of them.
I call them traitors.
There is no such thing as cheap labour is Silicon Valley
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American universities cannot keep up with the demands of all the US companies for software engineers American companies consume software engineers more than double the rate that US universities can produce them most the SF Bay Area has an unemployment rate of 3%. You can quit a your job here in the morning and have another job in the afternoon.
Its got nothing to do with talent its got everything to do with having the right education.
The average Apple employee ( not counting retail) is over $125,000 per year - I would not call that cheap labour - Apple employees are not vegetable pickers.
...and if this was Tim cook in passing something, he would be "thinking" about his own..
Easy to stand on the outside, shouting in, but why do you think they call it the Senate if all they do is be slaves?
A U.S. company can't control HK protesters. By definition by doing what Tim asks. that itself is a form of control.. HK protesters are using that same control to educate anyone who refuses to believe what they want you to believe.. using the 'China shield' as a headwind.
They know what they are doing... otherwise you wouldn't see incoocent poeple get bashes by 'protesters' for being anti...
Easy to stand on the outside, shouting in, but why do you think they call it the Senate if all they do is be slaves?
A U.S. company can't control HK protesters. By definition by doing what Tim asks. that itself is a form of control.. HK protesters are using that same control to educate anyone who refuses to believe what they want you to believe.. using the 'China shield' as a headwind.
They know what they are doing... otherwise you wouldn't see incoocent poeple get bashes by 'protesters' for being anti...
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I don't understand the pressure to seek out immigrants instead of Americans already living here. It seems like there is an unwillingness on the part of companies to fully invest in the communities they operate in. Sometimes working with people is difficult and requires some level of leadership, patience and professionalism of businesses and individuals. Everyone is always looking for the easy way to difficult problems.
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Agreed. The bottom line is people should be making their own communities better instead of running off to somewhere else.
As a legal immigrant (and skilled) to the US I find this a bit curious.
1. How clearly does it differentiate between illegal (bad for the US) and legal (good for the US) immigration?
2. This is effectively intellectual colonialism - they are taking the best from other countries that have often put a huge amount of resources into training these people and poaching them, creating a brain drain in developing countries. It's actually a pretty terrible thing to do.
3. Can Tim please either quit Apple and become the insufferable SJW activist that he is or shut up and focus on running a business? I really loathe the CEO activist type.
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As an immigrant to the US it is pretty simple, let the developing countries cover the cost of education and training rather than do it yourself. Intellectual colonialism.
1. How clearly does it differentiate between illegal (bad for the US) and legal (good for the US) immigration?
2. This is effectively intellectual colonialism - they are taking the best from other countries that have often put a huge amount of resources into training these people and poaching them, creating a brain drain in developing countries. It's actually a pretty terrible thing to do.
3. Can Tim please either quit Apple and become the insufferable SJW activist that he is or shut up and focus on running a business? I really loathe the CEO activist type.
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As an immigrant to the US it is pretty simple, let the developing countries cover the cost of education and training rather than do it yourself. Intellectual colonialism.
Not true. Plenty of talented people out there. The hiring process is broken. This is exacerbated by the fact companies don't want to pay what people are worth.