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indychris

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2010
687
1,483
Fort Wayne, IN
If there's anything positive that could be said about this disgrace you can now confidently say that all of their posturing on various rights is just that, posturing. As soon as push comes to shove and upholding principles like democracy and human rights can hurt their checkbooks, they'll fold.

After this any sane and informed person is going to take Cook and Apple's claims of being for various rights about as seriously as when Trump tries to pander to hispanics and african-americans...


Honestly, that should have been obvious the very first time that Apple claimed to be a ‘green’ company. Hardly anything has upgradable components today, and they’ve essentially created a disposable tech climate. How many millions of batteries have ended up in dumps prematurely? How many macs have been obsoleted because they’ve taken away user-serviceability? Apple under TC has always and only been about profit and perception. It’s only the gullible who have ever believed otherwise.
 

jonnysods

macrumors G3
Sep 20, 2006
8,396
6,837
There & Back Again
Little Timmy doesn't when it comes to anti-communists are human.

Now we get to the fatal flaw in Tim's leadership. Steve Jobs grew Apple's business by creating tech that people had to have, built great products (not perfect), and that was his focus.

Tim has grown the company, but he's done it by using the old CEO playbook - it's not as much of a focus on great products, it's a focus on increasing market share. So he goes to large economies such as India and China to grow the business, not focus on products that would make China or India desire to buy the tech. So you make concessions to get those relationships and sales, and now they own you.

Tim stood up to the Feds many years ago by not unlocking that shooter in California's phone. But takes down a Chinese app at the request of the government, not the people. Very dangerous ground he's on now.
 

1146331

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2018
258
551
Now we get to the fatal flaw in Tim's leadership. Steve Jobs grew Apple's business by creating tech that people had to have, built great products (not perfect), and that was his focus.

Tim has grown the company, but he's done it by using the old CEO playbook - it's not as much of a focus on great products, it's a focus on increasing market share. So he goes to large economies such as India and China to grow the business, not focus on products that would make China or India desire to buy the tech. So you make concessions to get those relationships and sales, and now they own you.

Tim stood up to the Feds many years ago by not unlocking that shooter in California's phone. But takes down a Chinese app at the request of the government, not the people. Very dangerous ground he's on now.
Exactly! Also, the terrorist were killing innocent people yet they defended that.

But the Chinese government that murders and disappears its citizens.... no it's okay, Apple likes them.
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Here is a good read about this issue... apparently Apple removed a Taiwanese flag emoji to appease China :)

Take a look at most of the world's airlines. They put Taiwan in China to appease them.
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Predictably, this thread has become an echo chamber of hysterics.
Yeah, but it's actually for a good reason and backed by the evidence of Apple's Tim Cook being a **** person.
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
It's good to know the Chinese government knows what's best for everyone.... Not.

That's your typical freedom right there..
 
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MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,275
3,696
I’m sure some will boycott Apple. In my opinion boycotts are stupid because it’s just not possible to boycott every company you disagree with. I disagree with most companies political crap but you know what I still buy from them. If there’s an alternative such as a company I could buy from that has a political view that’s more preferable or just doesn’t have a political view I’ll buy from them but usually that choice isn’t available.

This is what happens in capitalism when few companies run the show. They start dictating the rules.

Yet another reason why there needs to be other ways than the centralized AppStore to easily load apps on Apple products.

Thankfully, it’s only a matter of time now before AppStore loses its app distribution monopoly.

Change will come either by anti-trust measures, or by Apple realizing that having a stranglehold monopoly on App Store being the only way to get apps onto an iOS device is enabling censorship, human rights abuses, and crimes against humanity.

Come on Apple, show some real “courage” and just recognize the inevitable and end your app distribution monopoly *now* so people can help themselves to apps you’re forced to ban by undemocratic authoritarian human rights abusing regimes!

I understand where you are coming from, but I rather have the AppStore. A safe haven from viruses, bad written software, and tracking spyware. Maybe you can choose to Jailbreak your phone. Never the less, there is another just as good option which is Android.
 

AZREOSpecialist

Suspended
Mar 15, 2009
2,354
1,278
Money always wins.
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I'm surprised they allowed a police tracking app on their store in the first place.

Seems like a human rights violation of the police.
Police do not get "human rights" when the police are an arm of a State actively denying those rights to others. In case you don't remember, protesting is a human right.
 
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baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,875
2,922
Thanks for the insightful post. Nothing predicts the future better than history.

If you could, what would you advise Apple to do in this situation? After all, the communist revolution was a people's rebellion itself.

The communist revolution was merely disguised as the "people's revolution". That may have been how it started, but it definitely didn't continue that way. In reality it was just oppression. The working class never ruled in communist regimes, they worked in mines and factories and had everything they owned taken from them. Doesn't sound like a "people's" republic to me. Though I have a really poor understanding of the whole thing.

I don't know what Apple could have done, the same way I don't know what we could do. Should we stop buying everything made in China? If everyone did that, China would collapse. Should we be one of the few people doing the right thing, making almost no difference but putting ourselves at a considerable disadvantage? Or will it incite others to do the same? Of course, if no one does anything, then nothing is going to change... Someone has to start, and they have to make a sacrifice. Should that someone be us?

It's a tough decision. It would greatly change our lives if we suddenly had to not buy anything made in China. Maybe it will hurt Chinese people the most, as their dictatorial system will just continue to function and it will just oppress their people even more, just like North Korea does.

But on the other hand, what's going on in China (see the drone videos of the Uyghur concentration camps where they are blindfolded, chained, heads shaved, in high security camps, taken away for imprisonment, organ harvesting, experiments and murder simply for being of a different ethnicity) is exactly what went on in Nazi Germany. Do we turn a blind eye and say "Yeah yeah, it's the Holocaust all over again... but hey, it's on the other side of the world, maybe it's not even true, and I do need a hew laptop."?

Just like Apple continues to do what China asks because their business depends on it, we keep buying stuff made in China because our quality of life depends on it. I think that as social beings, we require leaders to lead us. We can't make world-changing decisions on an individual level because we're too unorganized. But we elect leaders and rely on them to make tough decisions for us. If Apple said "no" to China, they would maybe start a revolution. If you say "no" to China, nothing happens, unless everyone else follows you. But why would everyone follow you, if you're not their leader? We can't keep turning a blind eye to what's going on in the world, especially because we're directly or indirectly responsible for it. The money the Chinese government uses against their people is the money we gave them in exchange for their products.

If Apple said "no more Made in China products because of human rights violations in China" they'd start manufacturing stuff in the US or in countries with lower wages where human rights aren't violated, and somehow figure it out. Maybe all the people who buy Apple could stand behind that, and boom, you have millions of people suddenly not buying stuff from China. It's like fair trade coffee: if it's the only option but it's more expensive, you can deal with it. But if you have to go out of your way to fight for the fair treatment of coffee farmers then it isn't going to happen. It has to start with leaders, so that people can get behind them.
 
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sirozha

macrumors 68000
Jan 4, 2008
1,927
2,327
I really can't take this statement seriously. Do you genuinely think that China is unique when it comes to disagreeing wit the west?

They can cut their nose of anything but the Commonwealth, Europe, and North America because they don't like their politics. Absolutely can!

But it'd be stupid.

Just let people control their iPhones, and then you can't be held responsible for what people do with it. Simple as that.
I really can’t take this statement seriously.
 

AdonisSMU

macrumors 604
Oct 23, 2010
7,297
3,042
Im actually disappointed Tim put all his Apple in one basket. It didnt leave him with any options if things go sideways.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,098
23,744
Gotta be in it to win it
Sarcasm? Actually it hit an all time high today. Although I don't agree with this, one could argue Apple is in the business of profit, not principle.
The juxtaposition is interesting. Apple is a for profit company, but a company has to have principles. Right Enron, Bernie madoff, Etc., even if there is disagreement with the principles.
 
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stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
Exactly! Also, the terrorist were killing innocent people yet they defended that.

But the Chinese government that murders and disappears its citizens.... no it's okay, Apple likes them.
[automerge]1570797796[/automerge]

Take a look at most of the world's airlines. They put Taiwan in China to appease them.
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Yeah, but it's actually for a good reason and backed by the evidence of Apple's Tim Cook being a **** person.
It is not just China and the US is not any different with their government policies it has with other countries/states.
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Sarcasm? Actually it hit an all time high today. Although I don't agree with this, one could argue Apple is in the business of profit, not principle.
Trump’s middle eastern policies have not been any different
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It’s amazing the stock hasn’t tanked given the negative comments in this thread.
Software, products, business and politics are at times viewed differently
 
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827538

Cancelled
Jul 3, 2013
2,322
2,833
Wtf? It’s about respecting a country’s sovereignty. Alphabet is doing the same. Do you want foreign companies to be in the US without following US regulations?
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Because most of them have the logic of a child, and once they do that, they can “win” any debate. Just like how the left usually resort to calling others names right off the gate. You cannot win a debate with a child.

Pretty sure the app was breaking no law at the time.
But sure, defend a terrifying totalitarian unaccountable regime if you want. I'll be a little more critical.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
Pretty sure the app was breaking no law at the time.
But sure, defend a terrifying totalitarian unaccountable regime if you want. I'll be a little more critical.
Go read the article. Different countries have different rules and regulations.
Sounds like you actually refuse to acknowledge Hong Kong’s sovereignty.
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Money always wins.
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Police do not get "human rights" when the police are an arm of a State actively denying those rights to others. In case you don't remember, protesting is a human right.
Sounds like you have no clue what human means. And no right is acceptable when it tramples the rights of others. Plenty of regular citizens of Hong Kong felt that they are no longer safe due to the rioters.

Next time you have a problem, don’t go to the police then. Figure it out on your own.
 

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,192
5,268
The irony here is that Apple basically is the China of the tech world. At least for the last decade. Bloggers always have to be careful not to be too negative or lose the invite. The App Store especially. What’s a little stealing of ideas from those App Store devs you let in? China does the same.

Btw. Apple has a rule that none of its atv shows can cast China in a negative way. Or be too mature. Or have too much violence. Or too controversial.
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
The irony here is that Apple basically is the China of the tech world. At least for the last decade. Bloggers always have to be careful not to be too negative or lose the invite. The App Store especially. What’s a little stealing of ideas from those App Store devs you let in? China does the same.

Btw. Apple has a rule that none of its atv shows can cast China in a negative way. Or be too mature. Or have too much violence. Or too controversial.

Sort of like how some are complaining about how the government in China subsidies or has a stake in their manufacturers..? Same when you create an app for Apple app store, you have to work with them (Apple) and they get a cut from your sales/profits.

All the same at the end of the day. Just how it is presented to the minions.
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542

Oops. Looks like Apple is sending your IP address to China as well.
I can tell you one thing for sure and that is the government has made committing crimes very very difficult in China and depending on which point of view you view this from it can be viewed as positive or negative. The positive part is you are looking at a future country with 1.5 billion people that has a low crime rate relevant to the population they have and the negative part is that this comes in at the loss of some privacy for people. It is a toss between privacy, safety and security.

There are two sides of an argument and I think both have valid points.
 
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