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baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
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This is disgusting! So Apple is bowing down to Chinese censorship, distorting information for the rest of the world. China has managed to extend its censorship beyond its borders thanks to Apple. Now we can all live in a world controlled by communist ideology! Thank you Apple!

Movies and documentaries are not just for entertainment. They shape the public opinion and educate people about the world. They are equally capable of spreading misinformation and manipulating people if controlled by political ideology.

Is Apple news also going to censor negative press about China?
 
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Judo

macrumors regular
Mar 6, 2002
202
154
New Zealand
Only got through the fist page of comments here, but there seems to be a huge lack of understanding of how the real world works.
The main issue here is unchecked capitalism. American capitalism, where profits and stock prices are more important than people. Especially foreign people. This isn’t Tim Cooks fault. This is the machine that has been created within the last few generations of humanity. An unstoppable beast that is being driven by the rich, and the sycophantic politicians that serve them. If you want it to change, you need to take a good hard look at who you are voting for.
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
1 BILLION potential customers.
1 BILLION potential extremely cheap labour source

It's not hard to see why these companies are so eager to pander to China's interests.

I think Apple played it smart by having an icloud server in China to apply to those which use the local cloud server to abide by local government rules. Those that don't live in China don't have to worry about this as if you live in the US, Canada, Europe or some other country you use a different cloud server with a different set of rules. China is not the only country that requests Apple to follow certain rules/regulations
 
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stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
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This is disgusting how Cook cares only about money
Amazon’s Ring is sharing surveillance videos with local authorities as well.
How many people in America are employed by Apple and receive high salaries from Apple?

I think some men will only bend over if forced to and their lives depended on it while others may bend over for different reasons.
 
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Regbial

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2010
844
740
It is kind sad where USA trying to maintain its power at all cost and trying to paint anyone challenges United States as evil. United States has killed more people than any other countries, causing more chaos around the world than any other country.

United States is in its core desperate to maintain its world police status and run by the corrupted military companies.

It is ironic that you guys think China wants more power. Tell me which country we invaded? Which country we bombed? which country we sabotaged? Which country we invaded than left behind.

It is funny where you guys accusing China. Please reflect yourself before pointing your finger. Nobody take you guys seriously anymore.

If you are accusing China changing current world order, then so be it. Why isn’t China allowed to challenge current world order?

After all, the root of all these hate toward China is arrogance and deeply superiority you guys feel toward China and Chinese. You guys cannot allow non-white country challenge world order build by white dude. You guys are trying to put superiority with your system and demoralized other system.
Umm... I’m not from the US, but you assuming so says a lot.

And you HAVE invaded and killed. Have you... not seen Hong Kong (it’s own country, does that make your blood boil?) and Tibet, etc. ANd let’s not get into your history of heartless conquerors...

I do agree, the US is also power and image hungry, but not to your extent. It’s close though. You two are like bickering kindergarten children who don’t realize you are so alike, like brothers from another mother. And besides, you have the US you hate so much to thank for MUCH of your economic and technological growth these past few years.

Stop playing games and admit what you are. You value money and power, image, above human lives and freedom.

It’s pathetic and sad, as I said. All China has to do, is mind it’s own damn business. But no, your lust will never be satified. You just want MORE MORE MORE. Can you really tell me I’m wrong? You should be ashamed of yourselves mr Chinese internet agent. Even this internet forum infiltration thing you do is sad. :/
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Have you not remember red scare that was not terribly long before? How many so called communists where being put behind bar?

Have you not remember Japanese concentration camp during the world war?

Have you not noticing how US CBP officer treating family and child at border crossing?

You guys are such hypocrites. US and west doesn’t have such high moral ground. You guys are dirty as well.
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Are you able to say the same thing as southern white dude who flag confederation flag as well or are you able to say the same thing to American waving American flag all over the place?
Really, bruh, you should’ve brought up all the innocent people they tortured and killed in the Bush administration war, treating them as less than human. For next time <3 ;)
 
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Regbial

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2010
844
740
Thank you to remind me that I had freedom for moving around the world. Oh, I am absolutely enjoying my time outside China. Watching western slow progress and political infighting is joyful. The more I spent outside of China, the more I love China.
ENjoy your house made of bricks of poo painted as gold. You should love the US, you and Trump share the same mentality and interior decoration taste (I’m pretty sure lol).
 
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LovingTeddy

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Umm... I’m not from the US, but you assuming so says a lot.

And you HAVE invaded and killed. Have you... not seen Hong Kong (it’s own country, does that make your blood boil?) and Tibet, etc. ANd let’s not get into your history of heartless conquerors...

I do agree, the US is also power and image hungry, but not to your extent. It’s close though. You two are like bickering kindergarten children who don’t realize you are so alike, like brothers from another mother. And besides, you have the US you hate so much to thank for MUCH of your economic and technological growth these past few years.

Stop playing games and admit what you are. You value money and power, image, above human lives and freedom.

It’s pathetic and sad, as I said. All China has to do, is mind it’s own damn business. But no, your lust will never be satified. You just want MORE MORE MORE. Can you really tell me I’m wrong? You should be ashamed of yourselves mr Chinese internet agent. Even this internet forum infiltration thing you do is sad. :/
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Really, bruh, you should’ve brought up all the innocent people they tortured and killed in the Bush administration war, treating them as less than human. For next time <3 ;)

Please go learn some basic Chinese history before you pull out all these BS. And please go learn world history as well. How did US from 13 status to current 50 status? How did British Empire goes from tiny island to the Empire Sun never set? How did Spain went to invade South America? Your logic is very childish. World is never been about peace and no country is better than other country. So please stop your moral superiority, because nobody has clean history.

Since when did Hong Kong became a independent country? Do you have any idea about Chinese history or you just read some BS from some media and assumed it must be correct? Same goes with Tibet. Learn some basic history.

After all, all you have is the sense of superiority that your democratic system must be superior than any other form of government. You will never admit that maybe some places will be better off with different system. And you are scared that some inferior system made China as modern and advance and you are scared that this inferior system will overtake your superior system.

And stop being so innocent and look at the world as some innocent place. The world is about power, money and control. Governments wants more tax dollars, Corporations wants more profit, big nations plays geo-political game for power and control. So being power hungry, wanting more money isn’t such bad thing, it is how the world is running


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ENjoy your house made of bricks of poo painted as gold. You should love the US, you and Trump share the same mentality and interior decoration taste (I’m pretty sure lol).

I can’t stop laughing.. please be more funnier. You are a good comedian.
 
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LovingTeddy

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Oct 12, 2015
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This is disgusting! So Apple is bowing down to Chinese censorship, distorting information for the rest of the world. China has managed to extend its censorship beyond its borders thanks to Apple. Now we can all live in a world controlled by communist ideology! Thank you Apple!

Movies and documentaries are not just for entertainment. They shape the public opinion and educate people about the world. They are equally capable of spreading misinformation and manipulating people if controlled by political ideology.

Is Apple news also going to censor negative press about China?

Are you saying movies and documentaries must be very objective? Who are you kidding? As you said, movies and documentaries can shape public opinion and educate people about the world, that is exactly why movies and documentaries aren’t objective in the first place. Different side will use movies and documentaries to fit their own narrative. There are many historical examples where movie, comics and documentaries being used for different political purposes.

Different movie producer, different director, different screen play writer will unavoidably adding his/her won view of the world. Each documentaries writers will add its own interpretation of some event (You will find documents about Nanking Massacre from China and Japan are drastic different).

So tell me, who to determine which is right and which is wrong?
 

Gasu E.

macrumors 603
Mar 20, 2004
5,033
3,150
Not far from Boston, MA.
Sounds great in theory. Where will Apple make their products? They can’t just leave China immediately, it will take years. If Apple angers China, the Chinese government could seize all Apple assets in China. They could completely destroy Apple. Is that better than Apple playing nice while working on their exit strategy? Is leaving better than staying and continuing to have American influence in the country?

This has nothing to do with Apple manufacturing in China. It has everything to do with China being among the world's biggest markets for media and consumer product consumption. China wouldn't seize Apple's manufacturing plants (that would lead to a massive exodus by other manufacturers, out of fear they might be next). China would, however, make it difficult to impossible for Apple to sell product and media content there.
 
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Gasu E.

macrumors 603
Mar 20, 2004
5,033
3,150
Not far from Boston, MA.
And please go learn world history as well. How did US from 13 status to current 50 status?

The equivalent of about 30 states beyond the original 13 were acquired completely peacefully, through purchase from European colonial powers; or were unincorporated territories that were part of the original USA when the British surrendered. Only 7 were ceded at the conclusion of a war.
 

LovingTeddy

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Oct 12, 2015
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Canada
The equivalent of about 30 states beyond the original 13 were acquired completely peacefully, through purchase from European colonial powers; or were unincorporated territories that were part of the original USA when the British surrendered. Only 7 were ceded at the conclusion of a war.

So US still got some of States by war. And how about United States invasion China and Japan before?
 

baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,877
2,924
Why do countries want to show other countries in bad light? I remember as kid I watched so many Hollywood movies showing Russia in bad light. Problem is: kids who grow watching these movies get their brains wired to think that way, often for life.

It's beyond the point. The point is that we can show another country in any light we want. That's what freedom is. It means you are free to criticize, analyze or make fun of others if that's what you want to do. And the audience is free to decide if they agree or disagree with your message.

If you are politically banned from talking negatively about China, people don't ever get to see anything bad about China, and they don't get a balanced view of the country. People should be free to decide if they believe what they see or if they don't. But if they never get to see anything bad, they have nothing to decide about.
Are you saying movies and documentaries must be very objective? Who are you kidding? As you said, movies and documentaries can shape public opinion and educate people about the world, that is exactly why movies and documentaries aren’t objective in the first place. Different side will use movies and documentaries to fit their own narrative. There are many historical examples where movie, comics and documentaries being used for different political purposes.

Different movie producer, different director, different screen play writer will unavoidably adding his/her won view of the world. Each documentaries writers will add its own interpretation of some event (You will find documents about Nanking Massacre from China and Japan are drastic different).

So tell me, who to determine which is right and which is wrong?

Yes, a producer, director, etc... will make subjective movies and documentaries. But that's their choice, and each and every one of them will present a different point of view. That is different from censorship. If you watch 10 different subjective documentaries on China, you might get a valid objective picture of the subject. It's what cross referencing is all about. This is only possible with free speech, and if every point of view gets a chance. Let the viewer decide what they want to believe, and don't pre-filter information for them. Treat people like they're intelligent and can decide things for themselves.

But if you ban all documentaries that present China in a bad light, then you will never see a documentary that speaks about Chinese concentration camps or forced organ harvesting or the negative aspects of the social credit system. Or Winnie the Pooh. The decision about what kinds of media we watch is none of China's business, they should have no say in that. Let the film makers decide what they want to say, and don't censure them.

What we're seeing here is censorship. It's the method that all dictatorships use to control and brainwash their population. And we'd like to think that we live in free countries in Europe and in the US, and that censorship is limited to places like North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Russia, etc. Yet right now, thanks to Apple, China has a say in what content we can create and watch. Want to make a documentary about the concentration camps in China? Too bad, you can't, because China doesn't want anyone to know about that. That is the definition of censorship, and it's happening in what we thought were "free" countries. I don't think we should be defending this, in any way.

I think that with the China problem, Apple is turning into a typical evil corporation that sides with dictators and repressors just to make more money. They have no problem standing up for homosexuality or against racism, because those values appeal to young people, their main target audience, and it makes them money. The US isn't going to ban Apple if they support gay rights, so it's all good. But if China wants them to ban an app that helps Hong Kong protesters, or if they want Apple to prevent any movies or documentaries to be made that say something bad about China, Apple bows down. I think that's disgusting, because it shows that Apple don't actually care about human rights or the fair treatment of people. It means they don't even care about the rights of homosexuals, that's just a marketing campaign. So suddenly we're left with a company that only, only, and only cares about money.
 

LovingTeddy

Suspended
Oct 12, 2015
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Canada
It's beyond the point. The point is that we can show another country in any light we want. That's what freedom is. It means you are free to criticize, analyze or make fun of others if that's what you want to do. And the audience is free to decide if they agree or disagree with your message.

If you are politically banned from talking negatively about China, people don't ever get to see anything bad about China, and they don't get a balanced view of the country. People should be free to decide if they believe what they see or if they don't. But if they never get to see anything bad, they have nothing to decide about.


Yes, a producer, director, etc... will make subjective movies and documentaries. But that's their choice, and each and every one of them will present a different point of view. That is different from censorship. If you watch 10 different subjective documentaries on China, you might get a valid objective picture of the subject. It's what cross referencing is all about. This is only possible with free speech, and if every point of view gets a chance. Let the viewer decide what they want to believe, and don't pre-filter information for them. Treat people like they're intelligent and can decide things for themselves.

But if you ban all documentaries that present China in a bad light, then you will never see a documentary that speaks about Chinese concentration camps or forced organ harvesting or the negative aspects of the social credit system. Or Winnie the Pooh. The decision about what kinds of media we watch is none of China's business, they should have no say in that. Let the film makers decide what they want to say, and don't censure them.

What we're seeing here is censorship. It's the method that all dictatorships use to control and brainwash their population. And we'd like to think that we live in free countries in Europe and in the US, and that censorship is limited to places like North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Russia, etc. Yet right now, thanks to Apple, China has a say in what content we can create and watch. Want to make a documentary about the concentration camps in China? Too bad, you can't, because China doesn't want anyone to know about that. That is the definition of censorship, and it's happening in what we thought were "free" countries. I don't think we should be defending this, in any way.

I think that with the China problem, Apple is turning into a typical evil corporation that sides with dictators and repressors just to make more money. They have no problem standing up for homosexuality or against racism, because those values appeal to young people, their main target audience, and it makes them money. The US isn't going to ban Apple if they support gay rights, so it's all good. But if China wants them to ban an app that helps Hong Kong protesters, or if they want Apple to prevent any movies or documentaries to be made that say something bad about China, Apple bows down. I think that's disgusting, because it shows that Apple don't actually care about human rights or the fair treatment of people. It means they don't even care about the rights of homosexuals, that's just a marketing campaign. So suddenly we're left with a company that only, only, and only cares about money.

Censorship is not only presented in China, but also western world. It is just not so obviously been recognized by people in western country. Almost all information about Iran, North Korea are negative. Lots of negative press towards Chinese. Censorship is not just about banning something, it is also about directing general opinion into what government wanted you to believe.

Secondly, China is not banning any company support gay rights.

Thirdly, with regarding to Hong Kong protestors. The protest has been going on with 3 months. If China really want it end, it would do so already. I am sure you all familiar what happened with Tainanmen Square. Currently, the protest is no longer being civil. You have Chinese reporter being beaten by protestors, protestor setting buildings on fire, protestor using leaser to targeting police officers and now bomb being found near the police van. If you thinking Hong Kong protestor are bunch of civic people, then you should look more information. I bet all these information aren’t available to you by the big media. When did CNN reported Chinese reporter being beaten? If this kind of thing happens in United States, what do you think police and government would respond? Western media tends to paint Chinese governments as evil and Hong Kong protestor being civil and pursuing their dream. When police in United States shoot a black guy, it is police’s self-defense or more investigation need to be done. When Chinese or Hong Kong police open fire, then it is government trying to kill opposition.

Forth: Only 4% of Chinese populations has post-secondary education. Compare with more than 50% of population in US or 53% of Canadian population receive some short of post-secondary education. Misinformation or fake news can be very divested. With less than 4% of population has some short of post-secondary education, large population can be misguided and it could cause great social chaos. I bet you never thought about that.

Fifth: With all these fake news, misinformation, democracy can be broken by people with certain agenda. Often people will me misguided to believe something that is entirely falsified and act with such information. It is become very clear with 2016 presidential election. Information control and censorship is very much needed to fence off such fake news. Big technology companies are already started doing that.

Sixth: With amount of information being thrown around on the internet, I have serious doubt that people has enough time and energy to make informed decision. i don’t think you had enough information to make informed opinion about Hong Kong protestor.

Seventh: Fair treatment of people is never a thing in the history nor present. If anyone is seriously about fair treatment of people, then we won’t isolate aboriginals into some remote areas. If anyone is seriously about fair fair treatment of people, then why is US closing its border to certain refugees? To me, these fair treatment of people is just a fairytale that will never able to accomplished.
 

baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,877
2,924
Censorship is not only presented in China, but also western world. It is just not so obviously been recognized by people in western country. Almost all information about Iran, North Korea are negative. Lots of negative press towards Chinese. Censorship is not just about banning something, it is also about directing general opinion into what government wanted you to believe.

Secondly, China is not banning any company support gay rights.

Thirdly, with regarding to Hong Kong protestors. The protest has been going on with 3 months. If China really want it end, it would do so already. I am sure you all familiar what happened with Tainanmen Square. Currently, the protest is no longer being civil. You have Chinese reporter being beaten by protestors, protestor setting buildings on fire, protestor using leaser to targeting police officers and now bomb being found near the police van. If you thinking Hong Kong protestor are bunch of civic people, then you should look more information. I bet all these information aren’t available to you by the big media. When did CNN reported Chinese reporter being beaten? If this kind of thing happens in United States, what do you think police and government would respond? Western media tends to paint Chinese governments as evil and Hong Kong protestor being civil and pursuing their dream. When police in United States shoot a black guy, it is police’s self-defense or more investigation need to be done. When Chinese or Hong Kong police open fire, then it is government trying to kill opposition.

Forth: Only 4% of Chinese populations has post-secondary education. Compare with more than 50% of population in US or 53% of Canadian population receive some short of post-secondary education. Misinformation or fake news can be very divested. With less than 4% of population has some short of post-secondary education, large population can be misguided and it could cause great social chaos. I bet you never thought about that.

Fifth: With all these fake news, misinformation, democracy can be broken by people with certain agenda. Often people will me misguided to believe something that is entirely falsified and act with such information. It is become very clear with 2016 presidential election. Information control and censorship is very much needed to fence off such fake news. Big technology companies are already started doing that.

Sixth: With amount of information being thrown around on the internet, I have serious doubt that people has enough time and energy to make informed decision. i don’t think you had enough information to make informed opinion about Hong Kong protestor.

Seventh: Fair treatment of people is never a thing in the history nor present. If anyone is seriously about fair treatment of people, then we won’t isolate aboriginals into some remote areas. If anyone is seriously about fair fair treatment of people, then why is US closing its border to certain refugees? To me, these fair treatment of people is just a fairytale that will never able to accomplished.

The protests in Hong Kong are against China invading and claiming Hong Kong. They have every right to fight with whatever means they have to protect their country against a foreign invasion. Every nation in the world had to fight a war to ensure the integrity of their country, and that's exactly what's happening there. If they have to use lasers, violence or even lethal force, so what? They are about to be invaded by a foreign communist dictatorship, I'm pretty sure anyone in their right mind would sacrifice anything and everything to avoid that. Why would they just calm down and let it happen?

But regardless of who is right or wrong in China or in Hong Kong, what I'm trying to say is that Apple should not care about what China thinks when it comes to the content they allow creators to produce. If someone wants to make a documentary that portrays China in a negative light, they should be allowed to do so, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. That's the freedom of speech.
 
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Regbial

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2010
844
740
Please go learn some basic Chinese history before you pull out all these BS. And please go learn world history as well. How did US from 13 status to current 50 status? How did British Empire goes from tiny island to the Empire Sun never set? How did Spain went to invade South America? Your logic is very childish. World is never been about peace and no country is better than other country. So please stop your moral superiority, because nobody has clean history.

Since when did Hong Kong became a independent country? Do you have any idea about Chinese history or you just read some BS from some media and assumed it must be correct? Same goes with Tibet. Learn some basic history.

After all, all you have is the sense of superiority that your democratic system must be superior than any other form of government. You will never admit that maybe some places will be better off with different system. And you are scared that some inferior system made China as modern and advance and you are scared that this inferior system will overtake your superior system.

And stop being so innocent and look at the world as some innocent place. The world is about power, money and control. Governments wants more tax dollars, Corporations wants more profit, big nations plays geo-political game for power and control. So being power hungry, wanting more money isn’t such bad thing, it is how the world is running


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I can’t stop laughing.. please be more funnier. You are a good comedian.
Heh, well I'm glad u enjoyed at least a lil ;) forums can be fun..

First, history is there for us to learn from and not repeat our mistakes....

"And stop being so innocent and look at the world as some innocent place. The world is about power, money and control. Governments wants more tax dollars, Corporations wants more profit, big nations plays geo-political game for power and control. So being power hungry, wanting more money isn’t such bad thing, it is how the world is running"

Just because something exists doesn't make it right. Blindly chasing money and power, where does that get you? We all die in the end. Do you even know what marxism and capitalist critique is, bruhh? If you're just a blind sheep that follows the system, instead of opening your eyes and critizicing and changing it, you'll get nowhere.

And if China is SO modern and advanced and OH SO GREAT... Then why does it keep wanting more? Why does it take from others? Why is it in seemingly constant need? ???
 
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Regbial

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2010
844
740
Apple should consider moving its manufacturing operations to India and Vietnam (for Asian countries), Mexico (for North America), Argentina (for South/Latin America), and Russia (for Europe and Africa).
I'm happy to see more products being made in Vietnam, India, etc. I just got a new pair of running shoes, Asics (or w/e), glad to see they were made in Vietnam, and my running shirt in Cambodia. Another recent purchase (can't remember what exactly) from TAIWAN (it's own country thank u very much ?). And I am glad to give support to my own developing country as well.
 

LovingTeddy

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The protests in Hong Kong are against China invading and claiming Hong Kong. They have every right to fight with whatever means they have to protect their country against a foreign invasion. Every nation in the world had to fight a war to ensure the integrity of their country, and that's exactly what's happening there. If they have to use lasers, violence or even lethal force, so what? They are about to be invaded by a foreign communist dictatorship, I'm pretty sure anyone in their right mind would sacrifice anything and everything to avoid that. Why would they just calm down and let it happen?

But regardless of who is right or wrong in China or in Hong Kong, what I'm trying to say is that Apple should not care about what China thinks when it comes to the content they allow creators to produce. If someone wants to make a documentary that portrays China in a negative light, they should be allowed to do so, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. That's the freedom of speech.

Please go read history book and give me proof of when China invaded Hong Kong.

Hong Kong was part of China until UK took over from China with Treaty of Nanking and followed unfair treaty. Then UK handed Hong Kong back on 1997.

In which part of history did China invaded Hong Kong?

Are you just being brainwashed or you are unable to use your “freedom of information” to get correct information?

Assume you are right. People are fighting for their freedom by violence or lethal force, then please don’t complain when police officer or army open fire. You can’t have both way. If you revert to violence, then you should expect police will return the same measure. So next time, if you hear police shoot protestor, please don’t criticize police’s action.

By the way, what do you think about how Spain reacted Catalonia Referendum? As far as I know, Spain pretty much not acknowledging their independent movement and they have tried to arrest the leader.

Also. Apple doesn’t have to care what China think. Apple is free to do whatever they want, but don’t be surprised China retaliate against Apple. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean no consequence for whatever you say, it simply means you can say whatever you want. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you won’t face any consequences.

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I'm happy to see more products being made in Vietnam, India, etc. I just got a new pair of running shoes, Asics (or w/e), glad to see they were made in Vietnam, and my running shirt in Cambodia. Another recent purchase (can't remember what exactly) from TAIWAN (it's own country thank u very much ?). And I am glad to give support to my own developing country as well.

Look at Constitution of Republic or China and tell me that Taiwan is a country?

Be informed. Thanks
 
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LovingTeddy

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Heh, well I'm glad u enjoyed at least a lil ;) forums can be fun..

First, history is there for us to learn from and not repeat our mistakes....

"And stop being so innocent and look at the world as some innocent place. The world is about power, money and control. Governments wants more tax dollars, Corporations wants more profit, big nations plays geo-political game for power and control. So being power hungry, wanting more money isn’t such bad thing, it is how the world is running"

Just because something exists doesn't make it right. Blindly chasing money and power, where does that get you? We all die in the end. Do you even know what marxism and capitalist critique is, bruhh? If you're just a blind sheep that follows the system, instead of opening your eyes and critizicing and changing it, you'll get nowhere.

And if China is SO modern and advanced and OH SO GREAT... Then why does it keep wanting more? Why does it take from others? Why is it in seemingly constant need? ???

Human development is coming from chasing after money and power. That is how human as species progress.

Money and power isn’t such bad thing. No money and no power means as nation you will be bullied around by big countries. Every country should seek more money and more power.
 
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