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siddavis

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2009
860
2,836
I gave you a thumbs up but this post is too excellent not to that out explicitly. Thank you.
Yes, yes, Marx would be so proud, and a double thumbs up is deserved.

Again, the post is riddled with emotion and hypocrisy. Blame the big centralized government, the lobbyists that control that government and the regulations it creates and enforces, then promote and beg that same government and the unelected bureaucrats to create countless regulations to protect us from the big mean corporations that send their lobbyists back to that same government. Wait, what? That sounds like insanity to me.

See, if individual liberty were promoted instead, we would all be more self reliant and less dependent on being saved from ourselves. Instead, it is easier to be filled with envy and demonize the successful so that power can be centralized and the rest of us can be forced to fall in line. I'm sorry if I won't let my liberty be slowly taken away to appease emotions.
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
But bad news for Americans. Our huge imbalance of trade with China will destroy our country. It has already decimated the manufacturing in the Rust Belt.

You may not like Trump, but he is the only person in our government who recognizes this and is trying to do something about it.

It is better to do this now when the economy is strong and we are at full-employment rather than trying to do it when we are in the depths of a recession.

The giant trade deficit with China for over 20 years has transferred the wealth of the middle class Americans to fund the greatest military (largest for sure) as well as a great infrastructure throughout China. That money will never return to USA. It’s gone. China never spent it and the Liberals and their Deep State agendas have done more damage than anyone here would probably realize for another 20 years. Peddling socialism and rob the wealthiest Americans to pay for those who are the poorest but will still not restore the middle class. After American companies, including Apple, and the greedy executives, like Tim Cook, were responsible for this. Tim wants his stock options annually to vest at the highest rates possible and he nor any of the wealthy give two bits about the working class.

While Trump may act like a baffling idiot most of the time, he is spot on with the tariffs. The only problem is Americans are now used to their cheap consumer goods. Most of Apple’s consumers are into consumerism - spending their hard-earned paychecks on upgrades ridiculously often. The rest want their cheap plastic-made crap and furniture made from fake materials. Whether it’s an Apple computer or a $69 desk at WalMart, Americans don’t get it. They’re tossing away money that is for worse and will lose bigger and bigger in the long run with no investments or thinking their 401Ks will help them retire.

When the infrastructure of USA needs reworked, and nobody can pay for it, everyone will be looking up to China. Its strategy succeeds to demoralize America; it’s just that most don’t realize it yet. And those who do realize it prospered from the great wealth created for investors by executives who made the decisions to fund China’s Great Economy!

All the rest want to give free college, free Medicare for all, but the real problem were these executives lining their pockets with huge profits and only the top-tiers of Company elites made all of the money that was meant for the middle class. The lowest unemployment in over 50 years in USA, but most Americans are two months away from bankruptcy if they lose that overworked and underpaying job.

Sad times we are living in. But by all means, line up to buy your ridiculously notched iPhone Pros this September (tariff free)!

Used to love Apple products and am typing from an ugly assed notch-ridden iPhone XS Max now. Sad waste of money for such a hideous device that freezes so often from a lack of RAM and looks like garbage compared to what Samsung puts out.

Meanwhile, let Tim Cook make the same mistakes Sculley did. Trying to license out AirPlay 2 to TV manufacturers, drop the ball on the real ecosystem devices like routers and WiFi that allow simple setup, and swing big for something that is so heavily saturated in streaming. I don’t know whose more at fault - Tim Cook or Apple’s Board of Directors? Who could be so stupid to watch this all play out. Nobody that even understands the Apple products is even in charge. It’s a sad state of affairs. Three-plus-year cycles for iPhones that obviously decisions are being made by executives who want to line their pockets with more and more free stock, options and bonuses. The real designers and people who have creative senses must have all left Apple - or like Forstall been fired for being a threat to the Tim Cook system.

It’s truly pathetically sad. And I say all of this as a true lover of previous Apple products designed in the House that Steve Jobs built with Jon overseeing hardware bouncing ideas off each other and Scott understanding that the software needed to be intuitive.

Make Apple Great Again. #MAGA(AAPL)
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,828
964
Los Angeles
Take incredibly lax regulation. And low, low taxes. High tariff walls. And a crackdown on immigration to prefer wealthier, whiter countries. What do you get? Well, in the 1920s we got the Great Depression.

Why is Wall Street reacting how it does? They know the history.
 

siddavis

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2009
860
2,836
Its hilarious seeing libertarians contort themselves into philosophical pretzels with their mansplaining, trying to attack “big government” whether or not “big government” is protecting consumers, protecting the environment, protecting civil liberties, protecting worker rights. Libertarians are effectively corporate shills.
Who's in a pretzel?
Who claims on one hand that tariffs and taxes are a good thing, then on the other say they are a bad thing simply based on the intent of the application.
Who writes posts that slam the machinations of centralized government power, then in the same paragraph claim that the best thing to do is give more power to that system because they or that government know what is best for everyone else (that needs SO much protection).
One would think that decentralizing this power structure would be the most effective means of limiting the potential for harm or (un)intended consequences. That would make too much sense. The opposite is consolidating more power so the big, bad, evil corporations know exactly where to put their efforts. Color me confused by that logic.
 

NickName99

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2018
946
2,752
Who's in a pretzel?
Who claims on one hand that tariffs and taxes are a good thing, then on the other say they are a bad thing simply based on the intent of the application.
Who writes posts that slam the machinations of centralized government power, then in the same paragraph claim that the best thing to do is give more power to that system because they or that government know what is best for everyone else (that needs SO much protection).
One would think that decentralizing this power structure would be the most effective means of limiting the potential for harm or (un)intended consequences. That would make too much sense. The opposite is consolidating more power so the big, bad, evil corporations know exactly where to put their efforts. Color me confused by that logic.

Keep it up, this is incredibly entertaining
 

AdonisSMU

macrumors 604
Oct 23, 2010
7,297
3,047
Totally different story. The Dems want to raise taxes for the wealthy so they pay their fair share. Trump raises import taxes because he has this crazy notion it will get jobs back to America and boost the economy. But it turns out the opposite was going to happen with China blocking all agricultural imports. Aah, trade wars.
Not only that it becomes a tax increase on the poor and middle class as a result of having to pay the tariff too.
[doublepost=1565718196][/doublepost]
Who's in a pretzel?
Who claims on one hand that tariffs and taxes are a good thing, then on the other say they are a bad thing simply based on the intent of the application.
Who writes posts that slam the machinations of centralized government power, then in the same paragraph claim that the best thing to do is give more power to that system because they or that government know what is best for everyone else (that needs SO much protection).
One would think that decentralizing this power structure would be the most effective means of limiting the potential for harm or (un)intended consequences. That would make too much sense. The opposite is consolidating more power so the big, bad, evil corporations know exactly where to put their efforts. Color me confused by that logic.
Considering how you do something is as important as the fact that it's done.
 

jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,509
6,193
Oklahoma
Business loves stability. Day traders hate stability. I am not a day trader.
Well, it depends on how you define stability since even with this backtrack, the economy's held up on ever-more-fragile stilts right now. Be ready to buy!
 

Sanlitun

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2014
548
555
127.0.0.1
The ultimate goal is the complete disengagement of our society from that of the communists. And long overdue.

The tariffs work, the price increases in Chinese supermarkets work, the diffusion of supply chains works. I hear and see the effects of this all day.

Hopefully this grants enough time for Apple and other major companies to adapt supply chains and to mitigate whatever effects this will have on their business.

For those here who are communist sympathizers I wonder what the status quo is in their eyes? Business as usual with millions in detention?
 

hagar

macrumors 68000
Jan 19, 2008
1,965
4,908
You are actually making my point. The stance is not based in principle, but rather that the ends justify the means, and that one political group has the best intentions, but the other does not. If principles were applied, tariffs/taxes would just be a bad (or good based on the principle) idea regardless. Remember, they will "hurt the consumer"... right?

By the way, could you enlighten me on exactly what a fair share would be? And how are we to classify wealthy? Do you know the breakdown of groups and their burden (share) of taxes?
You seem to wilfully ignore the difference between a tax on profit and a tax on trade. They’re two completely different things. Everybody knows multinationals don’t pay their fair share (there are many calculations out there to determine what a fair share entails, but nearly 0% in many cases is not it). Furthermore, these profits stay in the pockets of rich people and don’t boost the economy or create jobs. It’s well established that trickledown economics doesn’t work.

Trump’s tax on trade is a completely different beast trying to rectify the trade deficit. You can’t compare the two.
 
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Soccertess

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2005
1,277
1,824
This is great news for both investors and consumers.

Unnecessary taxes on Apple products is not in the national interest, is not in the interests of consumers, and is not in the interests of investors who continue to back US innovation.


Investors or consumers needs shouldn’t dedicate foreign policy or national security needs. It is only one component of a complex relationship.

That being said, I won’t comment if the tariffs achieve or even are necessary from a foreign policy perspective, or if the concerns regarding Chinese state sponsored espionage or currency manipulation are warranted.
[doublepost=1565722117][/doublepost]
The ultimate goal is the complete disengagement of our society from that of the communists. And long overdue.

The tariffs work, the price increases in Chinese supermarkets work, the diffusion of supply chains works. I hear and see the effects of this all day.

Hopefully this grants enough time for Apple and other major companies to adapt supply chains and to mitigate whatever effects this will have on their business.

For those here who are communist sympathizers I wonder what the status quo is in their eyes? Business as usual with millions in detention?


While I agree with you on some level, your use of the word communist is incorrectly.
 
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Sanlitun

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2014
548
555
127.0.0.1
While I agree with you on some level, your use of the word communist is incorrectly.

I feel the term has changed over time and doesn't have the same meaning as 1917. Stalin wasn't really a communist either just as Xi Jinping isn't. I suppose it's fair to read my use of "Communist" as synonymous with "CCP".
 

Sedulous

macrumors 68030
Dec 10, 2002
2,530
2,577
The giant trade deficit with China for over 20 years has transferred the wealth of the middle class Americans to fund the greatest military (largest for sure) as well as a great infrastructure throughout China. That money will never return to USA. It’s gone. China never spent it and the Liberals and their Deep State agendas have done more damage than anyone here would probably realize for another 20 years. Peddling socialism and rob the wealthiest Americans to pay for those who are the poorest but will still not restore the middle class. After American companies, including Apple, and the greedy executives, like Tim Cook, were responsible for this. Tim wants his stock options annually to vest at the highest rates possible and he nor any of the wealthy give two bits about the working class.

While Trump may act like a baffling idiot most of the time, he is spot on with the tariffs. The only problem is Americans are now used to their cheap consumer goods. Most of Apple’s consumers are into consumerism - spending their hard-earned paychecks on upgrades ridiculously often. The rest want their cheap plastic-made crap and furniture made from fake materials. Whether it’s an Apple computer or a $69 desk at WalMart, Americans don’t get it. They’re tossing away money that is for worse and will lose bigger and bigger in the long run with no investments or thinking their 401Ks will help them retire.

When the infrastructure of USA needs reworked, and nobody can pay for it, everyone will be looking up to China. Its strategy succeeds to demoralize America; it’s just that most don’t realize it yet. And those who do realize it prospered from the great wealth created for investors by executives who made the decisions to fund China’s Great Economy!

All the rest want to give free college, free Medicare for all, but the real problem were these executives lining their pockets with huge profits and only the top-tiers of Company elites made all of the money that was meant for the middle class. The lowest unemployment in over 50 years in USA, but most Americans are two months away from bankruptcy if they lose that overworked and underpaying job.

Sad times we are living in. But by all means, line up to buy your ridiculously notched iPhone Pros this September (tariff free)!

Used to love Apple products and am typing from an ugly assed notch-ridden iPhone XS Max now. Sad waste of money for such a hideous device that freezes so often from a lack of RAM and looks like garbage compared to what Samsung puts out.

Meanwhile, let Tim Cook make the same mistakes Sculley did. Trying to license out AirPlay 2 to TV manufacturers, drop the ball on the real ecosystem devices like routers and WiFi that allow simple setup, and swing big for something that is so heavily saturated in streaming. I don’t know whose more at fault - Tim Cook or Apple’s Board of Directors? Who could be so stupid to watch this all play out. Nobody that even understands the Apple products is even in charge. It’s a sad state of affairs. Three-plus-year cycles for iPhones that obviously decisions are being made by executives who want to line their pockets with more and more free stock, options and bonuses. The real designers and people who have creative senses must have all left Apple - or like Forstall been fired for being a threat to the Tim Cook system.

It’s truly pathetically sad. And I say all of this as a true lover of previous Apple products designed in the House that Steve Jobs built with Jon overseeing hardware bouncing ideas off each other and Scott understanding that the software needed to be intuitive.

Make Apple Great Again. #MAGA(AAPL)
Actually, China has a massive deficit. It is in a far worse economic position than the US.
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,396
18,495
Did you read the article?

It is unclear if this decision applies to any Apple products or accessories.

The USTR said it will provide additional details and lists of the tariff lines affected by this announcement on its website today.

If USTR is delaying tariffs on cell phones and laptop computers, then more than likely it will include Apple's line of phones and even their laptop computers.

Aside from Samsung, which makes most of their phones in Vietnam, India, and S. Korea and would have been excluded from tariffs, Apple is the other big phone seller in the U.S. Why would USTR delay tariffs on phones and exclude iPhones from it? It wouldn't make any sense when Samsung and Apple have such big U.S. market share.

The other companies with the next largest U.S. market share are LG, Motorola, and HTC, but they're not U.S. companies, so why exclude any one of them and not Apple?

iPhones and MacBooks exempt from tariffs until Dec. 15 as expected.

But not AirPods, AppleWatch, or HomePod

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/13/reu...ods-will-not-escape-trumps-china-tariffs.html

Apple’s AirPods, Apple Watch and HomePod, which have helped the company to offset waning sales of its bestselling iPhone this year, are not included in a temporary reprieve on tariffs by the Trump administration and will face a 10% levy on Sept 1.

The administration said on Tuesday some major items, such as laptops and cellphones including Apple’s MacBooks and iPhones, will not face tariffs until Dec. 15. The delay affecting some of Apple’s biggest-selling products helped send its shares up about 4% in early afternoon trading.
 

siddavis

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2009
860
2,836
You seem to wilfully ignore the difference between a tax on profit and a tax on trade. They’re two completely different things. Everybody knows multinationals don’t pay their fair share (there are many calculations out there to determine what a fair share entails, but nearly 0% in many cases is not it). Furthermore, these profits stay in the pockets of rich people and don’t boost the economy or create jobs. It’s well established that trickledown economics doesn’t work.

Trump’s tax on trade is a completely different beast trying to rectify the trade deficit. You can’t compare the two.
You make a fair point that I am conflating the two. Originally, I was pointing to the outcry that the tariffs are bad because they are passed to the consumer. I joined the two because the same occurs with corporate taxes when levied and paid - they are passed along and the consumer ultimately pays them. While different animals, the effect is the same, but you won't hear the same outcry. In fact, it is just the opposite - "yes, get them, get them greedy corporations!"

RE: 0%
I agree that this should not be the effective rate. However, companies are not breaking the law to reach 0%. (Where they are, I fully support holding them to account). They are simply working the tax code. Again, we need to place the blame where it lies, with the elected and unelected bureaucrats that have created this monster. They set the rate, then put "incentives" here and there to try and manipulate and shape the market. The incentives have unintended consequences too (assuming the lawmaker has good intentions in the first place). Corporations are demonized, so lawmakers virtue signal by setting the highest tax rate among industrialized nations (yes! get them!). Then they do what they can to minimize that liability and the demonetization cycle continues. I have a mortgage. Does it make me evil to deduct the interest paid from my taxable income? My thoughts are that we should stop making tax avoidance such a lucrative endeavor. I guess think of it this way. If the rate is 35%, but I can jump through a bunch of hoops to make my effective rate 15%, you better believe I'm going to do it - there is GREAT incentive to do so. If the rate is 20% and I can jump through a bunch of hoops to make my effective rate 15%, the incentive is not as great so I may not. If I don't, then the treasury is 5% better off, things like funneling profits to foreign subsidiaries isn't a thing, and I haven't wasted effort to avoid it.

I contest the idea that profits just stay in the pockets of rich people. Are we to believe they they simply put large wads of cash under the mattress, or in a coffee tin buried in the backyard? No. This money is either reinvested, used to buy things or services that other people and companies produce or provide, or put in the bank. Even in the last scenario, what do we think provides the ability to lend? In the other scenarios, real people benefit. Carpenters, electricians, plumbers, steel workers, and countless others benefit when the rich build large houses and buildings etc.

BTW, I'm always happy to debate ideas.
 

MarkB786

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2016
755
1,304
USA
Of course it’s a fraud. Drumpf is a populist of the elites, he doesn’t give a sh*t about the working class beyond the fact that he needs them to get re-elected to then change the constitution and install his family dynasty for good in power.

Ha, and you think the elitist Clintons, Obamas, wealthy Bern, et. al care about the working class. Really? You need to open your eyes. You've been duped. They don't even know what working class looks like or means.
 

Solomani

macrumors 601
Sep 25, 2012
4,785
10,477
Slapfish, North Carolina
Love being an AAPL investor for over a decade!

It's a great stock especially for daily investors. You have sharp ups and downs on an almost daily basis. President Tweets one thing, and AAPL drops sharply. Someone else in Federal government says something else a few days later and stock price instantly skyrockets by 5% or more. Again, it's a great stock because it provides constant opportunity for "buy low, sell high"…. it does so on a daily basis.
 

8281

macrumors 6502
Dec 15, 2010
495
631
Trump Admin backpedaling after they realized their new tariffs were going to hurt the consumer and U.S. economy, particularly with people going back-to-school and the upcoming holidays. And Apple's new iPhone launch next month.

Unfortunately, you cannot bully China into agreeing to a trade deal.

My tinfoil hat says the POTUS is manipulating the market like he did with his father to buy stocks low when he announced a new tariff and then reverse course a couple weeks later so he can profit from the stock increase.

Trump and his dad did this for some time until investors realized what was up.
 

GermanSuplex

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2009
1,526
29,960
If China is paying for this, what gives?

He’s really a poor liar and not making the best of his base. Tell his audiences he’s docking the Clintons personally to cover the costs.
 
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burgman

macrumors 68030
Sep 24, 2013
2,716
2,292
China has imposed lopsided tariffs on us for years, they aren't going to drop those by asking nicely.
In fact, that has already been tried. The only ways we can change their minds: increase their costs thru tariffs, or thru wishing.

However. China's corn harvest just collapsed due to massive pest infestation, on the heels of their pork production being decimated.

Left leaning partisan leaners take careful note: Dogmatically holding China to a tariff schedule, when they face imminent natural disaster conditions, is cruel. It would put extreme pressure on them far beyond any US strategic trade goals or strategy. Better swallow your pride, Trump's the good guy here.
[doublepost=1565715380][/doublepost]

So it's ok for China to use tariffs on us?

How would you get them to stop?
Another Trump’s playing multilevel chess, aren’t you tired of all the winning yet? Mistaking the bellicose tough guy in speeches and Twitter then folding in silence is a lesson the world leaders have adjusted to, just his followers haven’t got it yet.
[doublepost=1565743615][/doublepost]
Ha, and you think the elitist Clintons, Obamas, wealthy Bern, et. al care about the working class. Really? You need to open your eyes. You've been duped. They don't even know what working class looks like or means.
Ahh the grade school, “he does it too” as a deflection. In the end consumers are to blame, every time they drive to a Walmart or buy the cheapest product without looking at where it’s produced. Then add the tax incentives to move production overseas for decades, then upscale products moved production overseas kept the high prices and the companies made stupid money. Again the consumer willingly supported it, look in the mirror to see who is responsible. That genie will never be back in the bottle.
 
Last edited:

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
If you want to force the Trump administration and government lower taxes and remove all tariffs by nothing for the next three months markets will drop and growth numbers will drop. You can profit from this as well By buying short positions in the market. If 30-50% of the Americans did this, all economic numbers would drop by 30-50%, markets would plummet and you would profit enough to buy what ever you want after 3 months. Trump would remove all tariffs to try and win votes back. A lot of the damage would be not easily repairable and Trump would be most likely out the door. All you have to do is buy nothing buy food and pay basic expenses for 3 months. Don’t buy a house,car,clothes,computer,smartphone or anything. In 3 months time you will get the biggest discount on anything you want. When all numbers related to sales and economy are bad he will be out the door. It’s either 3 months or 4 more years of him.

If you like or live Trump buy as much as you can these days o_O
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
Did anyone notice what time exactly the news came out about the tariffs delay.? Anyone here have a screenshot or report of when exactly (exact time) it was announced of the delay for tariffs..?
 

supercoolmanchu

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2012
355
623
Hollywood
Another Trump’s playing multilevel chess, aren’t you tired of all the winning yet? Mistaking the bellicose tough guy in speeches and Twitter then folding in silence is a lesson the world leaders have adjusted to, just his followers haven’t got it yet.
[doublepost=1565743615][/doublepost]
Ahh the grade school, “he does it too” as a deflection. In the end consumers are to blame, every time they drive to a Walmart or buy the cheapest product without looking at where it’s produced. Then add the tax incentives to move production overseas for decades, then upscale products moved production overseas kept the high prices and the companies made stupid money. Again the consumer willingly supported it, look in the mirror to see who is responsible. That genie will never be back in the bottle.

Easy there, trigger.

I’m not a Trump voter, supporter or Republican.

But you might want to rethink your opinion. This idea of things being set in stone forever = fiction. Change is inevitable.

China’s had an unfair advantage for a long time, and been severely lopsided imposing tariffs on us. That was going to eventually change, and like any change, there isn’t a perfect, clean solution.

If you’re a Democrat, you should probably be happy it’s Trump doing this, rather than kicking it down the road and potentially being a future D president’s problem. There’s plenty to not like Trump about, but this is a stupid and irrational position.
 
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