MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[Design4]

PCIe SSD as work disk and Sata SSD as OSX boot disk programe disk? OR two PCIe SSD ?
I have a mac pro 5.1 2010 I have planes to upgrade with new CPU (12 core) and the gtx680 4gb GPU, and 3x2x16Gb up to date fast speed ram. Among resource-demanding programs I mainly work in Adobe CS6 adobe after effects and Premiere Pro and some Blender.. since I still use CS6 I think I stay in High Sierra. So then to my question: I have planes to buy a Samsung SSD 970 EVO PLUS (with updated firmware, by following the firmware upgrade solution liked here ) or the Samsung 970 Pro, and then use it with the Aqua Computer kryo M.2 PCIe 3.0 adapter then put it in PCIe slot 2 (keep my GPU in slot 1)...I had also planed for another PCIe SSD..then maybe in slot 3, then use the PCIe SSD in slot 2 for all work files project files in the project I am currently working in so then fast speed between the Program for example After effect and all the project files in a project, (also put the After Effect disk Cache folder to slot 2 drive). Then I was thinking of using the PCIe SSD drive in slot 3 (or 4) to OS and all the programs. I then wonder...do I really need the PCIe drive for the OS and programs, It is may be faster than a SATA drive but anyway in slot 3 it is slower than in slot 2, and do I really need the speed for OS and programs? Some extra time when booting up and open programs are anyway not a problem, so I was then thinking maybe just go for an ordinary SATA SSD drive, maybe the Samsung 860 QVO SATA for the OSX and all the programs like CS 6, blender and so on..? What do you think? Sorry, a bit messy explained..but I think you understand. It is also maybe answered before here in different places in the long high-quality thread. Feel free to comment on other details in my set up. Thanks.

 

[AidenShaw]

PCIe SSD as work ...

Gawd, that's a big paragraph. TL;DR

 

[kohlson]

since I still use CS6 I think I stay in High Sierra

My CS 6 works fine with Mojave on my MP
It's not entirely clear to me what your trying to accomplish, or for that matter if there's a question. But I think you're asking should you split out System/Apps on one drive and workspace on another. I think this was more compelling when spinning drive were used. Drive performance is largely comprised of interface protocol (SATA v PCIe) rotational latency, and IOPS. SSDs in any form factor are much better than spinners in these factors. Buy the NVMe to fit your needs - keep it simple. If there's anything that shows splitting out Sys/Apps/workspace on separate SSD drives improves performance - please share!

 

[goodfidelity]

I am using the 970 EVO + with latest firmware and it works like a charm, however i dont get the full 1500Mb/sec speed.

Using Disk Speed Test from Black magic i get first 1300MB/s Write and 1470 MB/s Read.

But after the test has been running for some times the write speed drops to like 700MB/s

Is this normal or should i be bothered?

I also want to ask if there are any updates on affordable PCI adaptors for this card to get it over the 1500MB/s cap? I am talking $20 on ebay kind of deals?

Right now i am on a cheap ebay model, as i have had good experience with those from before.

Thanks guys for all the good info! (Bought this blade from collecting info in this thread)

 

[tsialex]

I am using the 970 EVO + with latest firmware and it works like a charm, however i dont get the full 1500Mb/sec speed.

Using Disk Speed Test from Black magic i get first 1300MB/s Write and 1470 MB/s Read.

But after the test has been running for some times the write speed drops to like 700MB/s

Is this normal or should i be bothered?

After the SLC/MLC buffer is full, you have the real TLC cell write speed. Only M.2 blades with full SLC/MLC NANDs don't have this write speed downgrade, like Samsung 970 PRO.

Another speed downgrade happens when the blade is full and it needs to erase the cell before writing it again, this will take the throughput to the low hundred MB/s.

I also want to ask if there are any updates on affordable PCI adaptors for this card to get it over the 1500MB/s cap? I am talking $20 on ebay kind of deals?

Right now i am on a cheap ebay model, as i have had good experience with those from before.

Thanks guys for all the good info! (Bought this blade from collecting info in this thread)

The cheapest PCIe switch on the market right now, adequate for this application, costs around $100 for 10k units sold, so you'll never see a switched adapter below the $150 range unless the costs of switches drop drastically - later they only increased.

 

[bigp2]

Ive got a Samsung 970 EVO Plus (fw updated to 2B2QEXM7) in a Sintech ST-NGFF2013-C adapter in my 2013 Mac Pro. I'm now running Catalina and my Boot ROM is 133.0.0.0.0.
So far everything should be good, but in the last month or so my Mac has been kernel panicking nearly every day. Sometimes two or three times in a row. Always with a panic in the IONVMeController.cpp.

Any idea what could be going wrong? It's incredibly frustrating.

panic(cpu 0 caller 0xffffff7f8a8184a7): nvme: "Fatal error occurred. CSTS=0xffffffff US[1]=0x0 US[0]=0x19 VID=0x144d DID=0xa808
. FW Revision=2B2QEXM7\n"@/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/IONVMeFamily/IONVMeFamily-470.40.4/IONVMeController.cpp:5258
Backtrace (CPU 0), Frame : Return Address
0xffffff83b029b9e0 : 0xffffff8008b39a3b
0xffffff83b029ba30 : 0xffffff8008c70fe5
0xffffff83b029ba70 : 0xffffff8008c62a5e
0xffffff83b029bac0 : 0xffffff8008ae0a40
0xffffff83b029bae0 : 0xffffff8008b39127
0xffffff83b029bbe0 : 0xffffff8008b3950b
0xffffff83b029bc30 : 0xffffff80092d17f9
0xffffff83b029bca0 : 0xffffff7f8a8184a7
0xffffff83b029bcc0 : 0xffffff7f8a80347a
0xffffff83b029be20 : 0xffffff8009244f79
0xffffff83b029be90 : 0xffffff8009244e99
0xffffff83b029bec0 : 0xffffff8008b7b625
0xffffff83b029bf40 : 0xffffff8008b7b151
0xffffff83b029bfa0 : 0xffffff8008ae013e
      Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
         com.apple.iokit.IONVMeFamily(2.1)[B8EE9C14-90EE-39E2-8565-0B00AC09499B]@0xffffff7f8a7f5000->0xffffff7f8a837fff
            dependency: com.apple.driver.AppleMobileFileIntegrity(1.0.5)[180FC5AB-0E47-35BC-91DF-609EBE8ED4A5]@0xffffff7f89583000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[AA7C7A4F-9F5D-3533-9E78-177C3B6A72BF]@0xffffff7f896f4000
            dependency: com.apple.driver.AppleEFINVRAM(2.1)[A86937B2-6177-3699-BE65-6762DDC120C6]@0xffffff7f898e6000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOStorageFamily(2.1)[A9967DFD-FCB3-3536-B071-F8B46494895B]@0xffffff7f89465000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOReportFamily(47)[2CCA7DD3-C33F-3CA4-A213-BC83D3D997B0]@0xffffff7f89624000

 

[goodfidelity]

After the SLC/MLC buffer is full, you have the real TLC cell write speed. Only M.2 blades with full SLC/MLC NANDs don't have this write speed downgrade, like Samsung 970 PRO.

Another speed downgrade happens when the blade is full and it needs to erase the cell before writing it again, this will take the throughput to the low hundred MB/s.


The cheapest PCIe switch on the market right now, adequate for this application, costs around $100 for 10k units sold, so you'll never see a switched adapter below the $150 range unless the costs of switches drop drastically - later they only increased.

Thanks for clearing out the questionmarks here, i thought i had a defect item. As always i get the full explanation and correct answer from you =)

The more expensive controllers are to much expensive in my opinion, maybe ill concider it at a later point or find a used one.

At those prices item like the Squid will be most profitable.

Thanks again!

//GF

 

[WillMoSeattle]

.do I really need the PCIe drive for the OS and programs, It is may be faster than a SATA drive but anyway in slot 3 it is slower than in slot 2, and do I really need the speed for OS and programs?

Per the first post on this thread the PCIe slot you install a nvme on doesn't matter unless you are using one of the switched blades like the highpoint You will get up to 1500 MB/ s in any of them with the simple blades like the kryo.

FWIW I've got my boot disk on a SATA SSD because I have a 2TB SSD because I have a lot of photos and music on my boot disk and am lazy and 2 TB is still a lot for nvme cost wise.... but also because I read the PCIe speed doesn't help boot time so much and I figure my running programs will reside in RAM.

This weekend I'm installing a 970 Evo on an Aqua kryoM.2 evo in slot two as a disk for video editing where slot one is my RX580 and slot 4 is for USB 3. Obviously another reason to use a SATA SSD drive is to save a PCIe slot for something else.

 

[tsialex]

Ive got a Samsung 970 EVO Plus (fw updated to 2B2QEXM7) in a Sintech ST-NGFF2013-C adapter in my 2013 Mac Pro. I'm now running Catalina and my Boot ROM is 133.0.0.0.0.
So far everything should be good, but in the last month or so my Mac has been kernel panicking nearly every day. Sometimes two or three times in a row. Always with a panic in the IONVMeController.cpp.

Any idea what could be going wrong? It's incredibly frustrating.

panic(cpu 0 caller 0xffffff7f8a8184a7): nvme: "Fatal error occurred. CSTS=0xffffffff US[1]=0x0 US[0]=0x19 VID=0x144d DID=0xa808
. FW Revision=2B2QEXM7\n"@/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/IONVMeFamily/IONVMeFamily-470.40.4/IONVMeController.cpp:5258
Backtrace (CPU 0), Frame : Return Address
0xffffff83b029b9e0 : 0xffffff8008b39a3b
0xffffff83b029ba30 : 0xffffff8008c70fe5
0xffffff83b029ba70 : 0xffffff8008c62a5e
0xffffff83b029bac0 : 0xffffff8008ae0a40
0xffffff83b029bae0 : 0xffffff8008b39127
0xffffff83b029bbe0 : 0xffffff8008b3950b
0xffffff83b029bc30 : 0xffffff80092d17f9
0xffffff83b029bca0 : 0xffffff7f8a8184a7
0xffffff83b029bcc0 : 0xffffff7f8a80347a
0xffffff83b029be20 : 0xffffff8009244f79
0xffffff83b029be90 : 0xffffff8009244e99
0xffffff83b029bec0 : 0xffffff8008b7b625
0xffffff83b029bf40 : 0xffffff8008b7b151
0xffffff83b029bfa0 : 0xffffff8008ae013e
      Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
         com.apple.iokit.IONVMeFamily(2.1)[B8EE9C14-90EE-39E2-8565-0B00AC09499B]@0xffffff7f8a7f5000->0xffffff7f8a837fff
            dependency: com.apple.driver.AppleMobileFileIntegrity(1.0.5)[180FC5AB-0E47-35BC-91DF-609EBE8ED4A5]@0xffffff7f89583000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[AA7C7A4F-9F5D-3533-9E78-177C3B6A72BF]@0xffffff7f896f4000
            dependency: com.apple.driver.AppleEFINVRAM(2.1)[A86937B2-6177-3699-BE65-6762DDC120C6]@0xffffff7f898e6000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOStorageFamily(2.1)[A9967DFD-FCB3-3536-B071-F8B46494895B]@0xffffff7f89465000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOReportFamily(47)[2CCA7DD3-C33F-3CA4-A213-BC83D3D997B0]@0xffffff7f89624000

Most people here are focused on MP5,1 with NVMe drives, for your specific problem ask your question on the NVMe with ST-NGFF2013-C; Vega Internal GPU; Mac Pro 2013 (6,1) thread, people there have much more experience with MP6,1 and the Sintech adapters problems then us.

 

[DJ_Road]

With a x4 PCIe adapter you are limited to around 1450 to 1500MB/s with a PCIe 2.0 slot, so you will get just a little more write speed.

Only with a switched adapter you can convert x8 or x16 PCIe 2.0 to x4 PCIe 3.0 and then get around 2900MB/s (x8 switch) to 3200MB/s (x16 switch) for one blade.

That is some very valuable information, tsialex. Thank you!

 

[theatwar]

Hi all,

I purchased a Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 for use in my just-ordered Mac Pro 7,1, and now I'm on the hunt for reliable SSD blades to put in it. (Apologies in advance if this is the wrong thread to ask these questions).

I would like to buy 4x2TB blades for this unit. I work primarily in AfterEffects-based animation, so if there's an SSD that would work better for this use, I'd love to hear about it.

I was looking at the 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus, however I have no way to update the firmware via Windows, so I crossed that off my list.

Also looking at the 2TB Intel 660P. Didn't see it on the front page but in searching the forum I found some folks who have been using it w/out issues in their 5,1 Mac Pros. One of my questions is with the 1800 read speeds, will this be significantly slower than if I got 'faster' SSDs?

 

[tsialex]

Hi all,

I purchased a Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card FUS-SSD-4X4-E3 for use in my just-ordered Mac Pro 7,1, and now I'm on the hunt for reliable SSD blades to put in it. (Apologies in advance if this is the wrong thread to ask these questions).

I would like to buy 4x2TB blades for this unit. I work primarily in AfterEffects-based animation, so if there's an SSD that would work better for this use, I'd love to hear about it.

I was looking at the 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus, however I have no way to update the firmware via Windows, so I crossed that off my list.

Also looking at the 2TB Intel 660P. Didn't see it on the front page but in searching the forum I found some folks who have been using it w/out issues in their 5,1 Mac Pros. One of my questions is with the 1800 read speeds, will this be significantly slower than if I got 'faster' SSDs?

Forget Intel 660P, it's a SSD with NANDs that have a extremely low write/rewrite endurance compared with PRO blades. Using it for a scratch disk/array will kill it easily. Excellent for storage, worst selection possible for a scratch disk/array.

For scratch disk/array use a blade with excellent cell retention and write/rewrite endurance, like 970 PRO or if you need something cheaper, Toshiba XG5.

 

[theatwar]

Thanks so much for the heads up!

Can you recommend a brand/model of 2TB SSDs for use inside the Sonnet?

Forget Intel 660P, it's a SSD with NANDs that have a extremely low write/rewrite capability compared with PRO blades. Using it for a RAW disk/array will kill it easily. Excellent for storage, worst selection possible for a RAW disk/array.

 

[majus]

I was looking at the 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus, however I have no way to update the firmware via Windows, so I crossed that off my list.

If you buy the 970 direct from Samsung online you will get the latest firmware, no update needed.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks so much for the heads up!

Can you recommend a brand/model of 2TB SSDs for use inside the Sonnet?

For scratch disk/array use a blade with excellent cell retention and write/rewrite endurance, like 970 PRO or if you need something cheaper, Toshiba XG5 and 970 EVO/EVO Plus. You can get EVO Plus direct from Samsung, people here already bought from them and confirmed the last firmware from factory

 

[theatwar]

Thank you so much for the advice, really appreciate it!

Quick question -- could I put a 1TB 970 PRO for my scratch disk, and then 3 2TB EVO Plus for the rest of my SSDs?

For scratch disk/array use a blade with excellent cell retention and write/rewrite endurance, like 970 PRO or if you need something cheaper, Toshiba XG5 and 970 EVO/EVO Plus. You can get EVO Plus direct from Samsung, people here already bought from them and confirmed the last firmware from factory

 

[tsialex]

Thank you so much for the advice, really appreciate it!

Quick question -- could I put a 1TB 970 PRO for my scratch disk, and then 3 2TB EVO Plus for the rest of my SSDs?

For a MP5,1, yes, that's what I and several others here do. We will need to confirm that with MP7,1, but it's almost certain.

 

[theatwar]

OK, cool!

If I wanted to create a bootable backup drive from this setup, would I designate one of the other 2TB EVOs as my backup drive? And then I would join the other 2 remaining 2 TB EVOs together as a RAID array?

For a MP5,1, yes, that's what I and several others here do. We will need to confirm that with MP7,1, but it's almost certain.

 

[tsialex]

OK, cool!

If I wanted to create a bootable backup drive from this setup, would I designate one of the other 2TB EVOs as my backup drive? And then I would join the other 2 remaining 2 TB EVOs together as a RAID array?

I have a HighPoint SSD7101A-1 v1.01, all your scenarios are possible with mine.

 

[splifingate]

It does work, and very well! One question I had is that I noticed it was an ACHI adapter. I was wondering if an NVME adapter would give me even better performance/advantage? I'm getting about 1200MB/s write and close to 1500MB/s read with the upgrade, which is around 1000MB/s more than my old sata SSD boot drive so I'm certainly not disappointed.

Coolio, mr DJ

The AHCI/NVME war is fought by the generals of the Device Calvary, and they parley by the dictates of their Strategy, not by the plane of their Field...

...your adapter most-probably is--by-default--an m.2 interface, but the chip/controller of the m.2 (you inserted) from your afore-mentioned MB(p) probably spricht our die AHCI, which OS X labels as Protocol.

Don't spend too much time worrying about the why's, as you are getting Teh Good Speeds

Regards, splifingate

 

[VLuc]

Hi everyone !

I was prospecting a M.2 nvme card for my 4.1>5.1 cMP and I found this 4 M.2 IOCREST I can't find on the 1rst post listing :

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000359673743.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.slider_612249361.0

Can't find any serious (or understandable !) informations… Is it the same specs as the well known 2 M.2 one (ie the best value/price ratio !) or am I dreaming ?

 

[tsialex]

Hi everyone !

I was prospecting a M.2 nvme card for my 4.1>5.1 cMP and I found this 4 M.2 IOCREST I can't find on the 1rst post listing :

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000359673743.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.slider_612249361.0

Can't find any serious (or understandable !) informations… Is it the same specs as the well known 2 M.2 one (ie the best value/price ratio !) or am I dreaming ?

No one tested it yet, the IO-Crest 4-blade model use a totally different PCIe switch, from another foundry, than the two blade model. No one knows if this switch is macOS compatible at the moment, it needs several kernel patches for working with Linux.

I don't recommend buying this card without an easy way to return it.

 

[VLuc]

Thank you very much, tsialex for your fast and efficient answer !

(and sorry for my poor English ; I used to be not so bad, but I didn't practice for a long time !)

 

[tsialex]

Thank you very much, tsialex for your fast and efficient answer !

(and sorry for my poor English ; I used to be not so bad, but I didn't practice for a long time !)

If you can buy from Amazon USA, HighPoint SSD7101A-1 is frequently found open box for around $275~300.

 

[VLuc]

I'll check it… Could be a nice deal, you're right.

Thanks again !