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D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,460
Vilano Beach, FL
Ok jtara i think now we are going to get somewhere…
- I don’t have a particular app in mind no
- Games and Social media certainly not at the moment. I guess i don’t even know the list of app categories that are available as you divided them into… what other categories are there?
- what does “speculative apps for the App Store mean?
- iOS or Android, i guess an app should be made for both, like kill two birds with one stone, but i would like your help on this, what is recommended to do?
- Nope, none experience of programming, or website development with html, or css etc, im a WYSIWYG design guy 100%


You're going to need to put in some legwork as well. Other app categories? Take out your phone, open the App Store and look around :)

I wouldn't even worry so much about platform, you're _way_ away from making that decision, you sort of need to get your head around some platform independent basics - even if using a non-native core is an option, you don't have those basic skills (that's the web related frameworks that utilize html/5/css/javascript [SASS, CS, React, etc])

It's not so much about you-need-this-skill, it's about what-is-your-goal?

If you want to make products for the/an App Store, with the hope of being employed doing such, or being an indie developer publishing your own product(s), then just pick a path and get started like a few folks have outline above - i.e., get some general programming under your belt

Honestly, I'd ignore the whole idea of Enterprise Apps for the moment, that's a pretty unique market, that requires an additional set of skills, typically including a significant amount of backend services. I know, because I do this as well - I'm cross platform, handle front, backend, infrastructure, but I've been doing this for close to 30 years :)
 
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jtara

macrumors 68020
Mar 23, 2009
2,008
536
Ok jtara i think now we are going to get somewhere…
- I don’t have a particular app in mind no
- Games and Social media certainly not at the moment. I guess i don’t even know the list of app categories that are available as you divided them into… what other categories are there?
- what does “speculative apps for the App Store mean?
- iOS or Android, i guess an app should be made for both, like kill two birds with one stone, but i would like your help on this, what is recommended to do?
- Nope, none experience of programming, or website development with html, or css etc, im a WYSIWYG design guy 100%

Still not understanding where you want to go with this.

Surely, you must envision yourself writing some particular kind of app? What would you LIKE to do?

By "speculative app for the App Store", I mean just that - writing an app or apps and publishing yourself on the App Store and/or Google Play Store. If this is your goal, what is your motivation? Learning? Experience? Altruism? Do you hope to make money on it? Probably 90%+ of self-published apps will never be an economic success. The successes almost all require (at least eventually) more resources than a single individual can provide. You have to identify (usually) a niche market with an unfilled need, and you need to put in a lot of hard work over a long period of time working closely with your users to understand the need and the solution. It also requires marketing skills - that users will just find your app in the App Store is a myth. If you are good with social media or know people who are who can help you, that can be a help with marketing. Even so, some of the best niche apps will never make any financial sense for the author. It is best to view it as a hobby on the side or a learning experience, and maybe it will accidentally turn into a financial success.

The anthesis of this is getting others to pay you to write apps or to work on a team of developers writing apps. The app might be a financial success or not, but you still get a paycheck. There are a lot of silly ideas that idiots throw money at, and who are you to judge, as long as you get a paycheck? You might be a regular employee, working in a cubicle, working remotely, working on contract either in a cubicle or remotely, etc. etc. etc. (Personally, though, I don't like working on projects that are not a success, or that I judge will not be. It is always a huge bummer to me when that happens. I try to avoid the situation when I can. I would hate to work in the Silicon Valley Throwaway Startup culture...)

Tell us what a "WYSIWYG design guy" does? What tools do you use? I checked your post history, it looks like you've been doing that for a while. Employee? Freelance? What's the nature of the work you do now?

I would maybe forget about "writing an app" for a bit, and see if software development is for you. Get some fundamentals.

I wouldn't worry about what language is used. Take some formal course at one of the online schools, read a book, follow an online tutorial, etc. etc. I wish I had a good starting point for you, but I'm 40 years out of formal university study in Computer Science, so hard to make current recommendations. I can tell you there is a LOT of junk out there!

Here is a recommendation that is not junk. But I warn you it is not easy. I recommended it to a friend who is working on his Master's Degree in International Business. He is no dummy, and has some prior experience with some programming (like Visual Basic). He's taking it for the second time.

https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-mitx-6-00-1x-10

It uses a programming language that will be of almost no use to you in creating apps. And that I think is a GOOD thing. If you write apps, you will have to deal with several different programming languages, and they will be arbitrarily changing all the time. Apple decided Objective-C is no longer fashionable, and they came out with Swift. Google decided they needed to follow suit, so Java is out and Kotlin is in. And neither of these were/are standard well-know programming languages. (Swift is making some inroads outside of the Apple universe.) So, you have to decide if you are agile enough to keep up. Think about your design work - do you easily adopt new/better tools? Can you figure them out even with lousy documentation? Then you might have some good skills for app development!

Learn *a* programming language, (a good one) and learn some fundamentals, and THEN you can worry about learning ones that you will use to create apps.

To be honest, to expect to sit down and write a useful app without the fundamental background in programming is not realistic. Yes, you can go to some Boot Camp that will claim that you can. They will walk you through, and you will copy what the instructor is showing you, and then you will walk away really having no idea how to write an app. (My opinion.)

It's a long road. It starts with you having some clarity about where you want it to go!

If it were, say, a marathon or bike race, it sounds like you're trying to take an Uber to a few hundred feet from the finish line and go on from there. That doesn't work. The starting point for writing an app is not the mechanics of writing an app. (Vs. other kinds of programming.)
 
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zoran

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jun 30, 2005
4,719
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Thank you both for the long explanation and suggestions, i will consider it all.
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,460
Vilano Beach, FL
It uses a programming language that will be of almost no use to you in creating apps. And that I think is a GOOD thing. If you write apps, you will have to deal with several different programming languages, and they will be arbitrarily changing all the time. Apple decided Objective-C is no longer fashionable, and they came out with Swift.

Just a couple of comments/clarifications, that hopefully won't confuse the OP :)

@zoran
While that course uses a language that's not used in the app itself (on either platform), Python is a +terrific+ language for building a services layer that might be part of your overall architecture. So many Apps today don't run in isolation, they include authentication, remote data access, state/storage, background processing (things like notifications, worker procs for re-sampling images, etc). I'm working on a major, ground up redesign for a notable client right this moment, and I'm using Python on the services side :)

I think one thing that successful developers know, is how to navigate across various tech. On any given work cycle / week, I'm working in C#, C++, Python, Ruby, Javascript (server and client), various frameworks (ASP.NET, Rails, Flask/DJango, React, Angular), DB "proc languages" (T/P SQL), dealing with security protocols across various services (some in the Fed sector), working on native App code Obj-C/Swift, Java, dealing with 3D work so doing things like building custom shaders. :cool:

@jtara
There were some major design considerations/concerns with Obj-C that prompted the introduction of Swift, I'd say it's a _little_ more than just fashionability (without getting into the granular details of language design which would cause the OP's eyes to bleed :D)
 
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zoran

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jun 30, 2005
4,719
125
I don't see a tutorial on the second link you posted though! :confused:
 

AphoticD

macrumors 68020
Feb 17, 2017
2,282
3,459
Not exactly an answer to the OP, as others have pointed out a few good choice... But, I think I understand where you are coming from and considering this question is within the Web Design and Development forum, it got me thinking that Flash was once the perfect bridge for the everyday graphic designer (and even WYSIWYG web designer at the time - Dreamweaver, PageMill, Claris, etc) to transition into programming.

You could quite easily build simple interactive programs, specifically in the visual space, with none of the setup of an app's foundation, windows, menus, views, contexts, etc. Many of the concepts and tools had their roots in design (i.e. Macromedia Freehand, Director and even Adobe Illustrator were all clear inspiration).

There was plenty of opportunity for both interesting and terrible custom UI concepts which went with the idea of having a completely freeform canvas for building a program... But it really was a fantastic platform, which copped a lot more flack than it deserved (from Apple) that ultimately killed it.

Is there anything in that kind of "hands on" space which someone could recommend to the OP instead of diving into a full blown language and IDE?
 

Shockwave78

macrumors 65816
Jul 10, 2010
1,082
60
Are there templates available for full apps that you can just edit to your liking? iOS or tvOS?

Also, is there a way to view an existing apps code that is on the App Store?
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,699
1,566
Destin, FL
Are there templates available for full apps that you can just edit to your liking? iOS or tvOS?
Sure there are tons of generic templates available on github. What exactly would you like to accomplish by editing a template and publishing an app?

Also, is there a way to view an existing apps code that is on the App Store?
Not easily. We like to keep our money maker code private, so script kiddies don't fly in and flappy bird the hell out of the app store.

Writing code is very easy. Coming up with a intuitive UI to solve a problem is the hard part. Just like writing a novel is easy. The words are all there for you in Webster's. Get to it, write the next Harry Potter.
 

jtara

macrumors 68020
Mar 23, 2009
2,008
536
Also, is there a way to view an existing apps code that is on the App Store?

There are some apps in the App Store that have open source code. The Signal secure communication app is one:

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS

A search of GitHub will yield others, as well as unpublished apps. Or you might do a web search for e.g. "open source apps published in ios app store".

And of course, there are lots of examples available that go with books, online tutorials, etc.

---
BTW, this is the reason I recommend the use of Signal over Whatsapp. Whatsapp actually uses the same Open Whisper protocol originally developed by the Signal developers. But it is not open-source, and so hasn't been subject to open peer review/examination. And Whatsapp stores metadata on server, which Signal does not. And it's owned by Facebook, in case I haven't convinced you yet...

I like that Signal even has a mechanism for verifying that the App Store app (and I believe server, as well) matches the published open-source code!

(Oops, maybe just Android build? https://signal.org/blog/reproducible-android/)
 
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