iWork 09 crippled by High Sierra

[jacg]

I still rely on Pages 4.3 for a number of features that have still not made it to the new version. Unfortunately scrolling is crippling slow and laggy in HS.

Meanwhile, Keynote 5.3, which I still use largely because I prefer iWork 09's compact UI and independent tool windows, is buggy too in HS. It does not seem to cope with multiple tabs.

Tragic that these apps were replaced by lowest-common-denominator apps that (in the case of Pages) still don't allow me to work on some of my most important documents.

 

[fisherking]

have you googled the issue? is it a universal problem with iwork 09 and 10.13, or just a problem you are having? you should start there...

in case you haven't noticed, this is how it's always been. operating systems change, and some apps require updates... or vanish into the past.

so, if you want to keep your OS current, you have to adapt. and if an older app is more important than a newer OS.. don't update. plus, 2009 is 8 years ago; that's a long time in software years.

 

[jacg]

have you googled the issue? is it a universal problem with iwork 09 and 10.13, or just a problem you are having? you should start there...

in case you haven't noticed, this is how it's always been. operating systems change, and some apps require updates... or vanish into the past.

so, if you want to keep your OS current, you have to adapt. and if an older app is more important than a newer OS.. don't update. plus, 2009 is 8 years ago; that's a long time in software years.

iWork 09 has had a few updates since then, but yes, I completely understand.

If there weren't still critical features missing from the latest version of Pages, I would just move on and get used to the new UI. But I can't do facing pages which ruins a number of complex documents I use and update regularly.

Unfortunately iWork 09 is buggier than I thought in HS. Pages has lots of disappearing UI. And Keynote will not play a slideshow! Apparently apps need to be 64 bit for HS. Other users have found out the same thing.

 

[chrfr]

Apparently apps need to be 64 bit for HS.

That isn't the case at all. High Sierra still supports 32 bit applications without a problem. Since Apple hasn't updated iWork 09 in years, it's running into other incompatibilities.

 

[Framlinghammac]

I also use Pages 4.3 to produce documents for my generation many now too old to climb the steep learning curve of using computers and prefer to share printed matter. All worked well on my 13" MBP purchased this year until High Sierra. After updating I did a small edit on a 440 page document which when saved in iCloud stored at full sized (i.e 1.69GB) but when opened again all the 800+ images in the document were marked as missing files and images grayed or replaced with placeholders, further the file size in iCloud reduced itself to 220 MB. Apparently the document cannot be recovered as the original files of the the images are lost.

I was informed by Apple as they do not support Pages 4.3 and therefore cannot do anything about files edited in Pages 4.3 on High Sierra and stored in the iCloud.

 

[superscape]

If you never upgrade an app then sooner or later it will probably become unusable as operating systems, underlying technologies etc change. If upgrading the app means you use some functionality that you need then I'm afraid you have only two real options: either dump the app for another, or learn to live without that functionality.

It's a pity that some functionality has been lost in recent Pages updates, but its Apple's software so it's their call. All you can do is complain and cross your fingers (although I wouldn't recommend holding your breath in the meantime).

Its an unfortunate situation and I'm sympathetic to your situation, but I'm afraid that "them's the breaks".

 

[Framlinghammac]

If upgrading the app means you use some functionality that you need then I'm afraid you have only two real options: either dump the app for another, or learn to live without that functionality.

I assume you mean lose rather than use. I can live with an app that no longer works after all WriteNow and Framemaker both stopped working on new Apple Systems that is why I kept an old Mac mini to access the 100s of archive files, but in my last 30+ years of using Macs I never met with an OS update destroying users data and WITHOUT ANY WARNING.
To put it bluntly if I can't trust iCloud with my data irrespective of my using an unsupported version of an Apple app
that lets me save it, can I trust apple at all?

 

[superscape]

I assume you mean lose rather than use.

Yep, sorry. Clumsy fingers!

I can live with an app that no longer works after all WriteNow and Framemaker both stopped working on new Apple Systems that is why I kept an old Mac mini to access the 100s of archive files, but in my last 30+ years of using Macs I never met with an OS update destroying users data and WITHOUT ANY WARNING.
To put it bluntly if I can't trust iCloud with my data irrespective of my using an unsupported version of an Apple app
that lets me save it, can I trust apple at all?

Yup, I can imagine how you feel. Still, your options remain the same though. :-(

 

[William Payne]

There is a reason the US military paid millions of dollars to Microsoft to retain support for Windows XP.

Legacy software needs.

 

[superscape]

There is a reason the US military paid millions of dollars to Microsoft to retain support for Windows XP.

Legacy software needs.

True.

However, I expect the day will come when those old XP computers start to fail and it won't be possible to buy a new computer capable of running XP. Hopefully, they'll have moved on from whatever that legacy software is by then. Hanging on to the legacy stuff might be necessary in the short term, but it's never a long term solution. Sooner or later you have to bite the bullet.

 

[Framlinghammac]

Updating 15 years of documents into Pages 5/6 involves hundreds of files. The only way I know to convert Pages 4 to Pages 5 is by opening each one individually and saving (and at the same time screwing up the dates).

But this is not my concern - High Sierra/iCloud destroyed the file (i.e. made it non-recoverable) without warning when it was opened probably through the automatic back-up feature to iCloud.

Having lost two very large files I daren't open any of the other 400+ Pages 4.3 documents in iCloud in case it does the same thing again.

Can anyone help?

 

[Fishrrman]

General advice to all those reading who have many OLD word-processing files that won't open with Pages:

Try downloading the latest version of LibreOffice.
It's free.

Then, try opening those old WP files (even old spreadsheet files, as well) with LibreOffice.

You may be very pleasantly surprised!

 

[Ritsuka]

You should make a backup of those files. iCloud is not a backup solution.

 

[Honza1]

Can anyone help?

Hm... this did not help?
Restore previous versions of iWork documents - Apple Support

Then...
You do have TimeMachine (or other) backups? Only real, separated hardware, semi permanent, and multiple copies are meaningful backup of files with any real value. Any and all network drives/services are useless as backups, even when they are advertised as such. They are not under owner control. Providers can and do go out of business... And what are owners going to do if/when network connection is down (accidentally, intentionally, or as matter of new provider/country policy)?
TimeMachine contains backup even of files which are in iCloud Drive. As long as those files were locally stored, you have copies there and can recover them. Things get fishy when you store data only in iCloud as those are not backed by TM.

 

[simonmet]

This may sound obvious, but can you not disable iCloud for Pages before opening them or perhaps even disconnect from the network entirely, preferably both.

What you describe sounds like a bug and a rather serious one at that. Honza1’s advice above is also excellent.

 

[Framlinghammac]

Honza, It is not I have a corrupt version, but it corrupted in iCloud. I had the back-ups on Time Machine although took an hour or more to restore the file and then I have to remember the updates I made since.

I am still in a quandary having disabled Pages in iCloud, which means all Pages files versions. Now i have to go back to saving files on memory sticks as I work on these files using macs in two different countries. My UK iMac has the Time Machine but my MBP which I use in Portugal does not. Not having iCloud looks to posing more problems. Also Pages 6 doesn't perfectly translate Pages 4.3 files - style sheets get changed occasionally seemly randomly or default to FreeForm. In tables the stylesheets default to Free Form and images in text boxes are also screw up. The format of Contents defaults to no indents when saved.
Totally despondent about the whole mess. I am nervous to rely on LibreOffice for keeping safe 15+ years of research if a corporation like Apple can't be relied on.

Many thanks everyone for your suggestions.

 

[casperes1996]

I miss the old Pages. I've grown accustomed to the newer versions and don't desperately need any missing feature, but I really liked the UI and style of the old Pages. And the full screen mode it had where all other than your writing just went away.

 

[NoBoMac]

Honza, It is not I have a corrupt version, but it corrupted in iCloud. I had the back-ups on Time Machine although took an hour or more to restore the file and then I have to remember the updates I made since.

[...]

I am nervous to rely on LibreOffice for keeping safe 15+ years of research if a corporation like Apple can't be relied on.

I do not think that iCloud is the culprit here, as all it is doing is copying the file from the Mac to cloud storage via block copying (i.e. treating the file as a glob of data, not caring about the format). Most likely explanation, as different poster pointed out, that you ran into an issue with Pages. Which is not surprising: old, and running in a new environment that could be exposing a long hidden issue (seen it happen to software developed in-house).

Re: LibreOffice: I have been using it for years. And before it, OpenOffice. Works like a champ. Have not tried it with Apple formats, but does handle Office quite well.

To be fair re: can't trust Apple: even Microsoft has these issues. Company I worked for at the time upgraded the version of Office in use, and just about every document and template created with earlier version(s) of Office had fouled up formatting, missing items. LOTS of cleanup on LOTS of documents for a few months after that. And this was not a big change upgrade (eg. going to XML format from legacy format, aka Office 2007).

 

[Framlinghammac]

I do not think that iCloud is the culprit here, as all it is doing is copying the file from the Mac to cloud storage via block copying (i.e. treating the file as a glob of data, not caring about the format). Most likely explanation, as different poster pointed out, that you ran into an issue with Pages. Which is not surprising: old, and running in a new environment that could be exposing a long hidden issue (seen it happen to software developed in-house).

Re: LibreOffice: I have been using it for years. And before it, OpenOffice. Works like a champ. Have not tried it with Apple formats, but does handle Office quite well.

To be fair re: can't trust Apple: even Microsoft has these issues. Company I worked for at the time upgraded the version of Office in use, and just about every document and template created with earlier version(s) of Office had fouled up formatting, missing items. LOTS of cleanup on LOTS of documents for a few months after that. And this was not a big change upgrade (eg. going to XML format from legacy format, aka Office 2007).

lI agree the PAGES upward compatibilities suffers like MS WORD, but I had hoped Apple would be much more user friendly than abandoning their print users who provided their bread and butter in the early decades.

However, my major suspect is

In macOS High Sierra "A more modern file system, Apple File System (APFS), is the new default in macOS High Sierra. APFS is safe, secure, and optimized for modern storage systems like solid state drives. It introduces features like native encryption, safe document saves, stable snapshots, and crash protection. APFS is ultra responsive and will bring major performance improvements for Macs."

Since turning off save Pages files in iCloud I have had no further problems. I'm reluctant to turn it back on until a new release of HS appears in case the same thing happens again.
I have nothing against LibreOffice, except will it be around for my grandchildren and does it supply User support as good as Apple.

 

[casperes1996]

In macOS High Sierra "A more modern file system, Apple File System (APFS), is the new default in macOS High Sierra. APFS is safe, secure, and optimized for modern storage systems like solid state drives. It introduces features like native encryption, safe document saves, stable snapshots, and crash protection. APFS is ultra responsive and will bring major performance improvements for Macs."

But if iCloud is the supposed problem, then why would your local file system matter? Furthermore, you can choose the file system you want to use anyways. High Sierra can still run on HFS+ and per default does on Fusion Drives. When installing High Sierra, it asks if you want to go to the new file system

 

[Framlinghammac]

With the release of 10.13.2 everything seems to work now except for those files previously opened. It cost me a lot of time and heartache and Apple gurus many hours.
But all is well that ends well. Pages 4.3 works with High Sierra.

 

[LauraJean]

I also use Pages 4.3 to produce documents for my generation many now too old to climb the steep learning curve of using computers and prefer to share printed matter. All worked well on my 13" MBP purchased this year until High Sierra. After updating I did a small edit on a 440 page document which when saved in iCloud stored at full sized (i.e 1.69GB) but when opened again all the 800+ images in the document were marked as missing files and images grayed or replaced with placeholders, further the file size in iCloud reduced itself to 220 MB. Apparently the document cannot be recovered as the original files of the the images are lost.

I was informed by Apple as they do not support Pages 4.3 and therefore cannot do anything about files edited in Pages 4.3 on High Sierra and stored in the iCloud.

The sad thing is not the age of iWork 09 with its superset of features, but Apple's lack of interest in making its replacement, which can no longer be called "recent", just as good. Did Apple say "we are working hard to restore" lost features?
[doublepost=1514333071][/doublepost]

I miss the old Pages. I've grown accustomed to the newer versions and don't desperately need any missing feature, but I really liked the UI and style of the old Pages. And the full screen mode it had where all other than your writing just went away.

Absolutely, and you can't even customize to have the left-center-right justification icons in the tool bar.

 

[dogslobber]

in case you haven't noticed, this is how it's always been. operating systems change, and some apps require updates... or vanish into the past.
.

It’s a Mac specific thing you don’t generally get on Windows. Apps are generally upwardly compatible but Apple breaks backward compatibility intentionally.

 

[vista980622]

With the release of 10.13.2 everything seems to work now except for those files previously opened. It cost me a lot of time and heartache and Apple gurus many hours.
But all is well that ends well. Pages 4.3 works with High Sierra.

It is possible by any chance to share a sample of those corrupted files? Really interested to see what has gotten corrupted.

 

[dogslobber]

To put it bluntly if I can't trust iCloud with my data irrespective of my using an unsupported version of an Apple app

Apple’s so-called cloud offerings have always been garbage going back to Mobile.me. Cloud just isn’t something they’re any good at so it would be foolhardy to trust them with your data. See Google or AWS for it being done right.

that lets me save it, can I trust apple at all?

No because they’re corporate liars who polish those to be spick and span for PR damage limitation. See batteries and iPhones fiasco.