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Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,525
8,861
Live at Milton Keynes Bowl, June 1982.
You are correct.

I just listened to it, and it ends with "of the world".

So, I think this is an example of people hearing different versions of the song. IIRC, I think the version that I would hear on the radio also ended with "of the world", but the version I have in my library just fades away after "We are the champions".

It still fits the ME, but like I mentioned earlier, has a logical reason why people remember it differently.
 

MacDawg

Moderator emeritus
Mar 20, 2004
19,823
4,503
"Between the Hedges"
Fascinating to read this thread where virtually nobody understands the actual premise of the OP (while vehemently claiming they do) and is content to wage war and go to battle against a straw man of their own creation and provide "proof" of their convictions against said straw man while dismissing the OP's post out of hand because... well, because.
 

chown33

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2009
10,740
8,416
A sea of green
Fascinating to read this thread where virtually nobody understands the actual premise of the OP (while vehemently claiming they do) and is content to wage war and go to battle against a straw man of their own creation and provide "proof" of their convictions against said straw man while dismissing the OP's post out of hand because... well, because.
Which, when I think about it, seems entirely fitting, if a bit self-referential (arguing about perception, memory, and frames of reference). I'm not against recursion.
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,525
8,861
Fascinating to read this thread where virtually nobody understands the actual premise of the OP (while vehemently claiming they do)

I think that one could understand the actual premise of the OP's post, but not agree with it.

Understanding and agreeing can be two separate opinions.

I understand the OP's premise, and find it to be really fascinating, but I believe that there is a more logical explanation to what is happening than the more fantastical theory of multiverse or something similar.

But, I do think some might not be fully understanding what the OP is referring to when discussing ME.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,408
34,207
Texas
Fascinating to read this thread where virtually nobody understands the actual premise of the OP (while vehemently claiming they do) and is content to wage war and go to battle against a straw man of their own creation and provide "proof" of their convictions against said straw man while dismissing the OP's post out of hand because... well, because.

OP pointed at a source, a website. The website talks about markers of reality shifts, among other questionable things. So no, I think we do understand the premise and we do disagree with the conclusions.
 

TonyC28

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2009
2,758
6,938
USA
It doesn't, especially because no one can remember clearly something that happened in elementary school. It is possible, for example, that the teacher said "and Mandela was arrested and sentenced to die in prison", which a 6-10yo can easily misinterpret, possibly creating a very vivid image of an old man dying alone in a cell.

People misremembering things is certainly not evidence of some reality shifts or whatever they call it. But I have to disagree with the notion that no one can remember clearly something that happened in elementary school. I'm sure nobody can remember everything that happened to them at a young age, but to say they can't remember any of it clearly? I have plenty of memories of being young and can remember a lot of specifics.
 

AlliFlowers

macrumors 601
Jan 1, 2011
4,542
15,755
L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Yeah, but we can argue that Obama/Bush/Clinton[...]/Washington were all bought by corporations, so with Trump things changed. In addition, Hitler. And we've never been on the Moon. Flat Earth. And Idaho doesn't exist (for those not familiar: http://www.fantasymaps.com/stuff/idaho.html ). Just to bring any topic on here :)

Neither does Ohio. Having lived there for seven years, I have no trouble believing that it doesn't exist.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,957
46,414
In a coffee shop.
OP pointed at a source, a website. The website talks about markers of reality shifts, among other questionable things. So no, I think we do understand the premise and we do disagree with the conclusions.

Bravo, very well said, and your post makes a very necessary distinction that needed to be drawn as a part of this discussion.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,469
26,588
The Misty Mountains
What exactly is the Mandela effect supposed to be? I looked at the link in post 1 and don’t really get it. People misremembering how Mandela died? How does this apply to all things as a general principle of psychology. I’m not being critical, just trying to understand what is being talked about.
Thanks.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,469
26,588
The Misty Mountains
Thanks for the link, but I watched the first 5 minutes and the man is talking about his software and describing looking at data that does not match what the individual remembers. Is Mandela Effect mentioned and described in this video with a different explanation than below?

I looked up Mandella Effect and found: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mandela_effect
The Mandela effect is the pseudoscientific belief that some differences between one's memories and the real world are caused by changes to past events in the timeline. Many Mandela effect believers believe it is caused by accidental travel between alternate universes, although some others propose that history has been deliberately altered after the fact by malicious extradimensional beings within the same timeline or by experiments at CERN.

I suppose this explanation is on the skeptical end of how it is received, yes? :)
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,525
8,861
People misremembering how Mandela died?
If you believe, then it wouldn't be misremembering, it would be an alternative memory to the current reality that you are in.

I personally find the ME to be really interesting, but I don't believe in it, as I think there are logical reason for people misremembering things.

I have experienced some of the non-Nelson Mandela ME examples myself, but I have found logical reasons why it was happening.

Some of the examples I have mentioned in earlier posts.

I suppose this explanation is on the skeptical end of how it is received, yes? :)
I would say an unbiased explanation more than skeptical one.
 

JohnEmmett

Suspended
Jun 29, 2019
129
40
South America has moved a thousand miles to the East

other, new geography changes are noticed
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,957
46,414
In a coffee shop.
What exactly is the Mandela effect supposed to be? I looked at the link in post 1 and don’t really get it. People misremembering how Mandela died? How does this apply to all things as a general principle of psychology. I’m not being critical, just trying to understand what is being talked about.
Thanks.

Agreed.

There are real memories - things worth remembering - such as the day Nelson Mandela was actually released from prison - that was a day of genuine historical importance in the history of South Africa (and was broadcast around the world for exactly that reason) - but the stuff suggested by the thread title does not strike me as worthy of serious time and thought.
 
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JohnEmmett

Suspended
Jun 29, 2019
129
40
there are real memories

things worth remembering

such as

so far so good

but you haven't given this subject serious time and thought

oh well
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,957
46,414
In a coffee shop.
What exactly is the Mandela effect supposed to be? I looked at the link in post 1 and don’t really get it. People misremembering how Mandela died? How does this apply to all things as a general principle of psychology. I’m not being critical, just trying to understand what is being talked about.
Thanks.

No, this silliness is about people misremembering how Mandela died, - thinking that he died when he didn't - and then therefore attempting to argue that their memory is real, or valid, or - if they are not delusional - somewhat surprised that he didn't die when they thought he did (i.e. in prison).

How uninformed.

My response to this is that his release from prison was broadcast worldwide, - this was genuinely historic - and he later won the Nobel Peace Prize (in 1993) and later still served as the first freely elected President of South Africa having won this divided country's first free elections - these are not minor events, these were genuinely serious stories - and can reasonably, or credibly, or plausibly, be considered to have been covered by major news stories worldwide.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,469
26,588
The Misty Mountains
If you believe, then it wouldn't be misremembering, it would be an alternative memory to the current reality that you are in.

I personally find the ME to be really interesting, but I don't believe in it, as I think there are logical reason for people misremembering things.

I have experienced some of the non-Nelson Mandela ME examples myself, but I have found logical reasons why it was happening.

Some of the examples I have mentioned in earlier posts.


I would say an unbiased explanation more than skeptical one.
Oh, I now see what a certain US Politician has been trying to sell. ;) I won't debate anyone politically as this is not PRSI.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
63,957
46,414
In a coffee shop.
Oh, I now see what a certain US Politician has been trying to sell. ;) I won't debate anyone politically as this is not PRSI.

Well, I'm an historian by training, which means that I have an unusual respect (perhaps reverence) for facts.

While the basis of those facts (the who, the what, the when, the where) are not usually a matter for debate or dispute in history, and are rarely contentious, the why and the how are a lot more open to scrutiny and admit differing interpretations.

However, while people may remember - or misremember - what they attempt to argue as facts, this is something I have little sympathy for (and less interest in).

Firstly, factually, they are wrong.

Something either happened, or it didn't. And what happened, when and where and to whom it happened are rarely a matter for dispute, unless you are watching "fake news", are misinformed, (and being misinformed does not make or render your information valid and no matter how much one "feels" that something happened differently does not mean that t happened that way, and to attempt to argue otherwise is silly) or are incarcerated in a sealed media bubble (such as a totalitarian state) where correct information is hard to come by.

Secondly, as citizens they ought to inform themselves (accurately) of what is taking place.
 
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JohnEmmett

Suspended
Jun 29, 2019
129
40
the correct memory is that it was different

it was always a certain way, now it has changed
 
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