MP 7,1 Most won’t be able to afford a new Mac Pro

[fuchsdh]

They select windows because that is what their software runs on. A lot more software than both OSX and Linux combined.

Windows 10 is as stable & reliable as OSX. (And it pains me to point that out.).

I don't have to troubleshoot downloading updates and spend time in the console doing it on MacOS.

 

[ssgbryan]

Neither do I.

 

[ct2k7]

How do you get it to stop coming on at random times? Everybody in the house runs a Windows box but me, and there have been persistent problems with it just waking up for no discernable reason and after a couple hours googling and trying to fix it, I've had to put my foot down with "Nyet! I will not do Windows tech support!"

My Mac with a GPU does this

 

[defjam]

I don't have to troubleshoot downloading updates and spend time in the console doing it on MacOS.

With Windows neither do I.
[automerge]1574017875[/automerge]

I think the last version of Windows I actually bought was Windows 95.

Your comments about Windows lead one to conclude it's the last version you've used.

 

[WrightBrain]

I dunno. As I mentioned before I went the route of building my own PC. I haven't had any real issues since I launched. My wife and I are Graphic Designers and she is still on a Mac. We swap files all the time and share the same server. The only issue we've had is not all of our old PS fonts will work for the PC. So we rebought a few.

As for worrying about unstable upgrades, that definitely is a problem with the PC. But it was with the Mac as well. Hell, I remember the one OSX update that had a nasty issue with erasing your external drive. Skipped that one for a while until that was stable. All in all, I'm happy with my choice. Although I might have gone with an AMD instead of Intel, because of security issues.

It just comes down to this, buy the expensive computer that you can't repair cheaply (or at all) or build your own but be prepared to do more troubleshooting. I'm good with the troubleshooting. You may have less trouble if you buy a Dell or other prebuilt. But I like my machine.

 

[OkiRun]

On-set is another area where image matters. These days certain DSLR/mirrorless camera setups generate stunning footage. But these guys sometimes run into problems where the agency/client question why they're paying big bucks for a crew running a camera that looks like the one they have at home.

Lay people and clients often have pre-conceived ideas of what should be in a studio, even if it's not critical to creating the end product.

So true.
We had two cameras at a commercial shoot. The second was a GH5. The rep for the company was onsite and couldn't believe we were using it. In the final edit, he admitted he couldn't tell what came from the GH5. LOL

 

[flyingmanatee]

The way the non pro enthusiast fan boy can afford it is to keep that pimped 5.1 for at least another 24 - 36 Month and go for a used 7.1 then.

Not pick on any one person but I see this a lot: anyone angling for a used Mac Pro 7.1 in 2-3 years is going to be sorely disappointed. The high cost ensures few units sold to end up on the market and with the upgradability makes it doubtful many users, even in high budget firms will be letting them go.

 

[Partridge]

Not pick on any one person but I see this a lot: anyone angling for a used Mac Pro 7.1 in 2-3 years is going to be sorely disappointed. The high cost ensures few units sold to end up on the market and with the upgradability makes it doubtful many users, even in high budget firms will be letting them go.

Look at how slow the Mac (particularly pro) hardware cycle is. Even look at how slow the Mac Mini cycle has been. There’s a good chance in 24-36 months Apple will be selling essentially the same Mac Pro it starts selling this December.

 

[defjam]

Look at how slow the Mac (particularly pro) hardware cycle is. Even look at how slow the Mac Mini cycle has been. There’s a good chance in 24-36 months Apple will be selling essentially the same Mac Pro it starts selling this December.

At least it can be easily upgraded. One thing I disliked about the 6,1 was the lack of upgradability. My 6,1 is forever stuck with D300 GPUs as they're non-standard. With PCIe slots the 7,1 will follow in the pre 6,1 foot steps for upgradability.

 

[Pressure]

Look at how slow the Mac (particularly pro) hardware cycle is. Even look at how slow the Mac Mini cycle has been. There’s a good chance in 24-36 months Apple will be selling essentially the same Mac Pro it starts selling this December.

The tower design should give it the same upgrade cadence as the original Mac Pro (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2012). As long as there is something to upgrade it with.

 

[Zdigital2015]

So true.
We had two cameras at a commercial shoot. The second was a GH5. The rep for the company was onsite and couldn't believe we were using it. In the final edit, he admitted he couldn't tell what came from the GH5. LOL

I have an acquaintance with a client who insisted on shooting a sizzle reel with a RED WEAPON HELIUM 8K for no better reason than to be able to brag that they had it shot on a RED camera. The content is now “future-proofed” but without divulging the market, the product changes from year to year rendering the footage obsolete in 12 months time. It would be shown at numerous shows that year, so it may have been worth it, but the equipment rental cost alone jacks the budget sky high.

Also, the local venue where they were going to show off the footage was 2K provided and 4K “bring your own” displays. I guarantee that the client would not have known had it been shot on a GH5, S1H or a Canon C200, but they insisted on RED.

Properly shot Log 4:2:2 to an Atomos and color graded correctly looks incredible as long as you have proper lighting, good lenses and competent hands running the camera.

I find it hilarious when company reps/liaisons/Creative Director are onsite and either go ghost white or apoplectic because they’re surprised when the equipment being used doesn’t look like some giant broadcast camera array akin to shooting an NFL football game. I actually worked at photography studio that had a separate “showcase” photo bay for new or visiting clients that had racked equipment and looked state of the art, but wasn’t just to make clients comfortable while the real sausage making happened a few bays down.

The same company also had a Linotype-Hell DaVinci workstation that was generally only fired up when prospective clients came by to wow them, but was a PITA to deal with on a daily workflow basis. Once staff were trained, it became a really important part of the workflow.

I suspect in the near future we’ll hear about a couple of Mac Pros sold set up for the very same sort of razzle dazzle while iMac Pros and iMac happily hum along making sausage.

 

[deconstruct60]

Not pick on any one person but I see this a lot: anyone angling for a used Mac Pro 7.1 in 2-3 years is going to be sorely disappointed. The high cost ensures few units sold to end up on the market and with the upgradability makes it doubtful many users, even in high budget firms will be letting them go.

I think there is an assumption that Apple will roll out a very substantive upgrade within 24 months. Time will tell. Based on Apple's track record over the last 9-10 years, that wouldn't be very probable. If Apple has decided not to go back into deep Rip van Winkle mode then 3 years is probably a safer bet.

There are also a fair number of folks who will put these new Mac Pro on a 3 years (or less) depreciation schedule. There is another set on 3 year leases. ( Apple leasing has 2-3 years cycles ). If there is nothing newer to jump to then a higher percentage of folks will just buy out what they are leasing. However, if there is something new and the business has high rates of new cash flow (and very substantive profits ) probably will just option into a new equipment rather than take the system. ( or put more older/failover systems into retirement. So may need another year or so for it kick start into the pipeline. )

It is correct that they won't be dumping in overwhelmingly large numbers. However, the trickle of used should be fully pipelined by 3 years out. The numbers are likely to be low enough that the price discount for high quality used will be high ( unless can find several sellers in a fixed area who have to dump it for huge loss. ). The high budget, high profit shops probably would start to let go of some of these for substantively better equipment.

I think if Apple sells enough over the next 10 months then probably will get an update within 2 years for a couple of factors. One, in order to repair their reputation here they are actually going to have to "do something". There are going to be a decent number of "don't buy version 1 " buyers piled on top of the "well Apple is just going to flake again" buyers still hunkered down on older systems.

Second, this Mac Pro is coming at a competitive inflection point. The competition between AMD and Intel is only going to ramp higher in 2020. By 2021 if Apple is stilling standing there like a lost deer in the headlights, they simply are just going to get run over by a big truck. Even the changes coming to the mid-level systems at that point are going to creep well into the range offering here. Apple has also stumbled into a very much "dead ender" chipset (the priority right now is shipping something in 2019. Waiting yet another year isn't a viable long term option. )

If the Mac Pro first years sales underwhelm Apple's expectations then they'll just milk this system like a cash cow and go back into Rip van Winkle mode. In that context, the trickle will be even smaller which would mean even less of a discount. So the discount hunters would likely be more disappointed. There still would be some but a decent portion of that is folks jumping off the Mac platform (or official Mac Platform. Apple may have fertilized the hackintosh market way too much at that point with bozo moves to create a substantive problem in many locations. ).


I suspect Apple is looking to sell about 40K a year of these. Even if the run rate drops in half each year. 40 + 20 + 10 that is still a total of 70K for 3 years. ( if stays constant then 120K ). Even only 5% "get off" the Mac Pro ride that would still be 3.5-6K systems floating out into the used market. The high cost of the systems will also help cluster those systems so the world wide dilution won't be as high as other Apple products. The deep bargain hunters are also a bit "louder" on forums than numerous.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

All that talk about building machines... I don't know why I would be special, but my experience with PC builds has been an utter nightmare. I'm not inexperienced. I take advise, too, where it is offered, from far geekier and supposedly more informed techies. Still, I have found PCs and Windows combos to be 100% VOODOO INSANITY.

I have watched rooms full of IDENTICAL PCs with IDENTICAL drive images boot at different speeds and suffer different inconsistent behaviors. I've watched Windows break itself countless times (Windows Update not being the only culprit). There is often no corrective measure to be had other than "wipe it out and start over", and there is almost NEVER an explanation for what caused the problem.

I actually watched PC geeks blow off spontaneous BIOS settings changes as "one of those mysteries" and then leave it. I've watched the standard answer to all Windows/PC problems be "reinstall" or "replace [insert part that should be fine here]", throwing time and money at these piles of crap endlessly. It's like there's no interest in KNOWING WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON. Worse: It might not even be POSSIBLE to know. Microsoft's knowledge base and support is the model for this mentality. There are NO ANSWERS to "why".

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me six times, NEVER EVER AGAIN will I deal with you! What's the lie? IT'S NOT ME; IT'S NOT THE USER. IT'S THE INDUSTRY.

I'd prefer to abandon computers (which are, and have always been my primary tool for everything) entirely, rather than continue to be an unwilling slave to the monstrous baby that is the Windows PC assembly. I am NOT alive to feed this narcissistic wanna-be tool. If I am not paid, it's not my job to figure out why a tool spontaneously fails to do the damn thing it's supposed to do. I don't even WANT to be paid to be a tech support person anymore; it's a miserable life of never being able to actually FIX something or stop it repeating on the users.

The sheer amount of hypernormalization around these piles of crap is astounding and terrifying. The things people will adjust to, when they have no idea what the alternative is... Or when they're inculcated into a culture of belief that "this is just the way things are"...

... and thanks to Apple's insane greed and growing market stupidity (and the Apple-religious fans all over the web making sure to bash any reasoned criticism), I may indeed be pushed to just giving up entirely.

I agree with a lot of what you said here, but I'm responding mainly to the building of PCs from scratch. This is why I find HP Z series such a wonderful platform for Hackintosh. No fuss, just order the configuration needed to meet a desired performance level.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Not pick on any one person but I see this a lot: anyone angling for a used Mac Pro 7.1 in 2-3 years is going to be sorely disappointed. The high cost ensures few units sold to end up on the market and with the upgradability makes it doubtful many users, even in high budget firms will be letting them go.

I don't see any reason to believe the used market for them will be any different than the iMac Pro and previous Mac Pros. A used base iMac Pro sells for $2500-$3000 now on eBay. I just looked at sold listings. I think in 2 years we will see used 2019 Mac Pros similarly selling for $2-2500 less than the new price. Within 6 months of release they will be available for about $1000 less in Apple's refurbished store. Used models will sell for less than a refurbished unit that has the full 1 year warranty. It's also possible we will see the base discounted $750-1000 by 3rd party retailers within weeks of launch like the iMac Pro.

 

[deconstruct60]

... used 2019 Mac Pros similarly selling for $2-2500 less than the new price. ...
....It's also possible we will see the base discounted $750-1000 by 3rd party retailers within weeks of launch like the iMac Pro.

I think that is what some folks are betting the farm on those two being compounded. Pragmatically starts at $5,249 and then drops another $2K from there landing around $3,249.

But if the pool of folks who were in the $3-4K range is quite large those will move much faster than the current stuff and prices would drive higher. ( percentage discount less. ). If Apple makes some bonehead moves over next two years with the Mini, iMac , iMac Pro, and Mac Pro then that pool will just get bigger.


But yes this is a substantive piece that Apple is missing right now. A 2-3 old "retired" Mac Pro that can fill the lower price points to take some of the hackintosh and user flight to Windows/Linux pressure off. There is a huge chasm they need to cross to get to better long term product viability. If more competitors stick a large amount of extremely compelling systems into that chasm the Mac Pro will be in deep trouble.

 

[AlexMaximus]

Not pick on any one person but I see this a lot: anyone angling for a used Mac Pro 7.1 in 2-3 years is going to be sorely disappointed. The high cost ensures few units sold to end up on the market and with the upgradability makes it doubtful many users, even in high budget firms will be letting them go.

I am sure you are correct when it comes to the US market place. And I thought it would be the same in Europe.
Since I have monitored the eBay market in Germany for the last 12 months when it comes to the iMac Pro standard model, I have found out the market somehow paints a completely different picture. Somehow, there are plunging "new/sealed" or "as new" or "open box" or "non used demo units" on the market on a quite regular basis. Those units usually go for about 3400 - 3700 Euros, - compared to the standard 5499 Euro price tag. For the last 6 month I have found about 5 units in sealed/new condition for less than 3800 Euros. I am really wondering, and to be frank this is a mystery in my book. ???
Assuming this will be the same with the shiny new 7.1 Mac Pro in 2 years from now would be wrong. But there is hope and pattern recognition so far...
But regardless of who is right or wrong in the end, my new-born-moral problem is the new Dune case.

Dune Pro Case

We believe the power to choose is not just for the pros, it’s for everyone.

www.dunecase.com

Why not keep the 5.1 or even pimp it with a dual tray + DosDude Catalina iOS Hack and go full-blown on the Dune case to build a new AMD / VEGA Monster machine for half the money? This way I have two machines that run on the same Apple 27 Display, no problems and enough cash for the next trip to Bali, Indonesia. I am absolutely NOT the 7.1 target customer here, and I fully admit it. With this price tag, the fanboys are out of the picture.
But to have fully maxed out 5.1 besides a fully maxed out Dune-PC-Mac-Pro side by side AND going to Bali is a very compelling proposition by keeping the same flirt-factor when you look under your desk... Hmm.. I guess somebody soon I will open a new MacRumors DUAL 5.1/DunePCMac-Desktop under the HOOD Photo Blog---

 

[AlexMaximus]

1.7 Mill viewers and counting.... tick, tock, tick, tock...

Apple... - You have been officially disrupted...

BAAAMMMMM !!!!

 

[deconstruct60]

I am sure you are correct when it comes to the US market place. And I thought it would be the same in Europe.
Since I have monitored the eBay market in Germany for the last 12 months when it comes to the iMac Pro standard model, I have found out the market somehow paints a completely different picture. Somehow, there are plunging "new/sealed" or "as new" or "open box" or "non used demo units" on the market on a quite regular basis. Those units usually go for about 3400 - 3700 Euros, - compared to the standard 5499 Euro price tag.

That seems more likely an indicator of Apple forcing retailers into over inventory stuffing the 8 core iMac Pro models. Apple's projections for that config were always a bit off since that configuration has also been chronically on discount in the USA also. ( not quite that level of dumping but discounted weeks after initial release. )

I highly doubt Apple is drinking so much kool-aid that some highly chopped down 256GB SSD / 580X model is going to fly off the shelves in vast quantities at $5999 price points. ( in contrast, iMac Pro base of 32GB RAM , Vega 54 and 1TB SSD is generally useful. ) The entry model Mac Pro is even more of an odd duck. The whole base price point is set up even more to sell substantially fewer units. Apple forcing retailers to overstock on stuff they can't sell probably won't work well. Even Apple has to see that. Apple will make them take a several but probably not at iMac Pro item quota levels.

Also I think AMD is doing better in Germany than in USA. Folks leaving Mac space is incrementally higher. Again Apple would have to be drinking gallons of kool-aid to push higher stock quotas in that context too.

 

[OkiRun]

I have an acquaintance with a client who insisted on shooting a sizzle reel with a RED WEAPON HELIUM 8K for no better reason than to be able to brag that they had it shot on a RED camera. The content is now “future-proofed” but without divulging the market, the product changes from year to year rendering the footage obsolete in 12 months time. It would be shown at numerous shows that year, so it may have been worth it, but the equipment rental cost alone jacks the budget sky high.

Also, the local venue where they were going to show off the footage was 2K provided and 4K “bring your own” displays. I guarantee that the client would not have known had it been shot on a GH5, S1H or a Canon C200, but they insisted on RED.

Properly shot Log 4:2:2 to an Atomos and color graded correctly looks incredible as long as you have proper lighting, good lenses and competent hands running the camera.

I find it hilarious when company reps/liaisons/Creative Director are onsite and either go ghost white or apoplectic because they’re surprised when the equipment being used doesn’t look like some giant broadcast camera array akin to shooting an NFL football game. I actually worked at photography studio that had a separate “showcase” photo bay for new or visiting clients that had racked equipment and looked state of the art, but wasn’t just to make clients comfortable while the real sausage making happened a few bays down.

The same company also had a Linotype-Hell DaVinci workstation that was generally only fired up when prospective clients came by to wow them, but was a PITA to deal with on a daily workflow basis. Once staff were trained, it became a really important part of the workflow.

I suspect in the near future we’ll hear about a couple of Mac Pros sold set up for the very same sort of razzle dazzle while iMac Pros and iMac happily hum along making sausage.

We already have a client who wants us to make a video of us editing their commercial on the Mac Pro when it is available... January 2020 time period... so they can put that video on their website as being the first. I'm getting too old for this!

 

[Zdigital2015]

We already have a client who wants us to make a video of us editing their commercial on the Mac Pro when it is available... January 2020 time period... so they can put that video on their website as being the first. I'm getting too old for this!

On a Pro Display XDR, of course! Got to love it!

 

[AidenShaw]

We already have a client who wants us to make a video of us editing their commercial on the Mac Pro when it is available... January 2020 time period... so they can put that video on their website as being the first. I'm getting too old for this!

Is the client Apple?

I can't imagine why any other company would want to make a point that a commercial for their product/service was edited on an Apple.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Is the client Apple?

I can't imagine why any other company would want to make a point that a commercial for their product/service was edited on an Apple.

I don't understand why people want to wear a T-Shirt with a giant Gucci logo on it either but there's a market for them.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Is the client Apple?

I can't imagine why any other company would want to make a point that a commercial for their product/service was edited on an Apple.

I suspect you have never dealt with clients in a creative capacity and all the weirdness that they bring with them including silly ideas about how they want to show how hip they are on any given Sunday.

 

[AidenShaw]

I don't understand why people want to wear a T-Shirt with a giant Gucci logo on it either but there's a market for them.

I suspect you have never dealt with clients in a creative capacity and all the weirdness that they bring with them including silly ideas about how they want to show how hip they are on any given Sunday.

I find it more common that ads (or stories) with Apple laptops remove the Apple logo. One of the best examples was a NASA news show (real time) about the New Horizons flyby. A scientist with the project was doing part of the commentary, and had a MacBook on the podium. The story cut away to a graphic, and when it returned there was a NASA sticker covering the Apple.

But yes, some people like to show the half eaten apple. Don't understand why - maybe insecurity.


And for fashion, this one is over the top IMO. Why pay extra for a generic t-shirt with four letters on it?

 

[OkiRun]

I suspect you have never dealt with clients in a creative capacity and all the weirdness that they bring with them including silly ideas about how they want to show how hip they are on any given Sunday.

Especially in Japan where American image is still king ~ including all things Apple.