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Ledgem

macrumors 68020
Jan 18, 2008
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Hawaii, USA
- I'm in photographer mode meaning I'm not as involved in things as I would be if I didn't have a camera in my hand. This isn't good with a young family. It's one the main reasons I don't take my camera to some events, because I just want to enjoy it and not have to think about lighting, framing, exposure, etc. Taking my camera round Disney wasn't as enjoyable as I'd hoped.
Out of curiosity, how long have you been into photography for? Was your first "real" camera the one from 2017?

I ask because what you wrote here reminds me a lot of how I felt when I was newly into photography with a "real" camera. I felt that way for the first 2-3 years, I think it was. It was exhausting. Everything seemed like a photography opportunity that I was missing. I'd bring a bag full of lenses, and it felt like I was cycling through almost all of them multiple times per hour. My family put up with a lot every time I'd go out with my camera bag.

I don't know when the shift occurred, exactly, nor why it occurred, but at some point that just went away. Maybe it was time, or taking a certain number of photos, or personal maturity. Now I can leave home with a single prime lens and it's fine - I get what I get, and that's that. Sometimes I don't even take a single photo, and I'm fine with that. My camera is slung behind my back most of the time so my hands are free to interact with my children, yet it's readily accessible in case I find a situation where I'd like to round off a few shots.

- I'm starting to appreciate video more than photos. I like a good photo, but a video has a special way of transporting you back to a time and place like nothing else.
What you wrote here is really interesting to me. I'd say that the one area I prefer iPhone photos to my camera is Live Photos. That brief snippets of video and audio surrounding the photo do a lot to make the photo more meaningful than a single, static photo. But I've also started doing more family videos, originally starting in iMovie and then moving up to Final Cut Pro. In some ways video is the more stressful. Family can help with the filming, and you can utilize the video portions of Live Photos for video segments as well, but it takes a lot of time to film and edit if you want a coherent video. I can take a photo or two and be done with my camera for photography, but I need to keep my iPhone (or camera) in front of me to keep getting video. It's also easier to quickly edit a photo or two with downtime, but it's harder to edit video in brief bursts like that.

Granted, I'm newer to videography than to photography, so my workflow may not be as well established. Family pressures are also a bit different; people rarely press me for photos (maybe because I'm doing it regardless), but occasionally they'll remark that something would be a nice event to have video from, or they'll provide me with long segments of video that they took on their own... and creating a narrative off of someone else's filming can be quite difficult. It's a different sort of challenge.

- I don't feel any urge to go and take photos of things, I did it a few times when I first got the camera while it was still a novelty. It is literally used for family photos now.
Same... but why is this a bad thing? Maybe it doesn't lead to super artsy shots that the world would want to see, but is there anything more worthwhile than capturing precious moments as your family develops? I've made some large wall prints of those moments and love them. We've printed iPhone photos, too, but nothing larger than 4x6. I'm not sure they'd hold up to printing much larger than that.

The fact that camera phones are at a good level now is what has made me consider this option. They are only going to better each year and I'm more inclined to upgrade my phone than to buy camera gear.
Interestingly, most of what you wrote has more to do with photography mindset than with anything technical. Your camera makes you feel too focused on photography, but there's nothing inherent in the camera that causes that; you could just as easily get into that mindset with the iPhone, too (although it's a bit more simple and limited). Similarly, unless you're using a DSLR or a MILC that somehow lacks a video function, your camera should be just as capable in video (if not more so) than your iPhone.

If the iPhone feels better and lets you have that happier balance between photos/videos and actually living life rather than just documenting it, that's certainly a valid reason to ditch the camera. As I wrote above, it's very possible to do that with a "real" camera, too. But there's no reason to feel obligated to "work at it" so that your photography desires calm down when using the "realm camera," particularly if the iPhone's quality is satisfactory for your purposes.

Don’t they take pictures as the hospital that you can purchase?
No, our hospital didn't. I've been at a few hospitals and haven't seen that service offered, either. The photos I'm referring to were the ones immediately after birth, when they've basically wiped the baby down and placed them on mother. I think it'd be incredibly intrusive to have someone (particularly someone who wasn't on the labor team) barging in and taking photos of that moment.

Although it's interesting that you mention that, because it reminds me that when our second child was born there was actually some mention of photographs that made it sound as if a professional photographer would take some photos before we left the hospital. I'm now realizing that they never did. Which was just as well - we wouldn't have purchased anything, and at that point I already had my "real" camera, so it would have been superfluous. It would have felt intrusive to have someone come into our room to take photos of our newborn.
 
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Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
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If you have a young family, then yeah, you aren’t going to be using your camera as much. You have other priorities at the moment, but eventually as life settles into the new normal (and you get enough sleep), you will find the time again. At least that’s how it went for me.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,451
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If you have a young family, then yeah, you aren’t going to be using your camera as much. You have other priorities at the moment, but eventually as life settles into the new normal (and you get enough sleep), you will find the time again. At least that’s how it went for me.
I disagree, I probably took many more images of my kids when they were young babies, then now. I know every situation is different and newborns certainly require a lot of work, but in all honesty the growth and changes occur the most dramatically and you don't want to miss out.
 

mollyc

macrumors 604
Aug 18, 2016
7,794
46,989
I agree, I bought my first dSLR when my daughter was not yet 2 and my son was six weeks old. They are now 12 & 13. They are never around now and avoid the camera when they are. I am so glad I learned photography when they were tiny and that I have those photos. My regret is that I didn't learn when my daughter was a newborn, as the photos of her first two years are pretty much a blurry mess.

I have since moved to mostly macro photography because I still really love shooting, but I can shoot things that don't go to school and sports during the day. ?

I'm not a very good phone photographer because I enjoy (and need) using a viewfinder to block out all the extraneous stuff in my field of vision. I like the act of framing in camera and find it very therapeutic. I recently got a mirrorless and still prefer using the viewfinder to using the back of the camera.
 
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needfx

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Aug 10, 2010
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I'm not a very good phone photographer because I enjoy (and need) using a viewfinder to block out all the extraneous stuff in my field of vision. I like the act of framing in camera and find it very therapeutic. I recently got a mirrorless and still prefer using the viewfinder to using the back of the camera.

nothing beats framing through the viewfinder, and I still use it while taking video on jobs. Far better than looking at a screen. Evidently, not everything can be achieved with the eye stuck on the viewfinder (low shots, gimbal shots, rail shots etc), however, it is my preferred way of shooting video too. Isolation is king
 
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kenoh

macrumors demi-god
Jul 18, 2008
6,506
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I’m actually going to try to rebuild a camera of my grandfather’s from 1921. And I will use it if I get it to work.

Woo hoo project time! do it and report back frequently. I have a pinhole camera here I am itching to play with. My daughters also love the little HP Sproket printer - like an Instax but you send pictures to it from a phone. picture quality isnt epic but it compares to the instagram filter ethos quite well except each print is a sticker they can put on their school books etc.
 

mollyc

macrumors 604
Aug 18, 2016
7,794
46,989
Woo hoo project time! do it and report back frequently. I have a pinhole camera here I am itching to play with. My daughters also love the little HP Sproket printer - like an Instax but you send pictures to it from a phone. picture quality isnt epic but it compares to the instagram filter ethos quite well except each print is a sticker they can put on their school books etc.

Well I'm pretty sure the camera itself works, but I have to make new bellows. It seems a little overwhelming to do that, but I really want to.
 

kenoh

macrumors demi-god
Jul 18, 2008
6,506
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I went the other way, in all honesty. I have a OMD EM5, but I was in using my iphone in many situations where I didn't want to lug that around. My iphone Xs, did a nice job, but I found it lacking on a number of fronts. Instead I opted for Canon G5X II, and I'm really enjoying that. I have more zoom then the iPhone, a larger sensor, and the ability to shoot raw. I have more flexibility in shooting and in post to produce some nice images.

I'm not knocking the iPhone's photographic chops, but I think for my expectations, its too limiting. YMMV, and for most people the iPhone is more then enough.

Yeah we need to talk.... you are in trouble..... remember my comment on the RX100 last week?

Well, yeah.... damn it....
IMG_20191008_133343.jpg

[automerge]1570538300[/automerge]
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I agree. I think having a viewfinder, allows me to better decide how and what to shoot.

+1 it just feel more "real" taking a picture through a viewfinder, mentally I seem to feel I am taking a "proper" photo.
 
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needfx

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Yeah we need to talk.... you are in trouble..... remember my comment on the RX100 last week?

Well, yeah.... damn it.... View attachment 867679
[automerge]1570538300[/automerge]


+1 it just feel more "real" taking a picture through a viewfinder, mentally I seem to feel I am taking a "proper" photo.

I dare say that if it wasn't for the zeiss lens on these, no wow factor would be generated!

how do you find the pop-up viewfinder, since on the subject
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,244
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Tanagra (not really)
I disagree, I probably took many more images of my kids when they were young babies, then now. I know every situation is different and newborns certainly require a lot of work, but in all honesty the growth and changes occur the most dramatically and you don't want to miss out.
Oh, I took lots of pictures, but I used my phone since it was handy and non-obtrusive.
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,244
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I didn't have a smart phone when my kids were little.
Same way for me with my youngest, where I had a compact Sony point and shoot. For the next two I was able to use smartphones. We were so tired most of the time that our smartphones made taking and sharing pictures and videos much easier. Now that the kids are a bit bigger, my hands are now free, so I go into full dad-mode and sling the LUMIX over my shoulder for better shots. It’s why I like m43–the weight is reasonable so I can keep up better.
 
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kenoh

macrumors demi-god
Jul 18, 2008
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Glasgow, UK
I dare say that if it wasn't for the zeiss lens on these, no wow factor would be generated!

how do you find the pop-up viewfinder, since on the subject

Oh no, dont forget this is only my "don't want to take the heavy artillery" options. The viewfinder is a marvel for what it is but it cannot compare to a full size viewfinder.
 

needfx

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Oh no, dont forget this is only my "don't want to take the heavy artillery" options. The viewfinder is a marvel for what it is but it cannot compare to a full size viewfinder.

I wouldn't expect you rocking these bad boys girls unless weight and ease of use was in the equation :D
 
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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
10,095
26,413
SoCal
interesting topic, and the best part, we have many good choices, so whatever works...
For me, I've been using SLRs since the late 70s/early 80s and I cannot see myself not using a (D)SLR in the future, and I don't mind (yet) to carry the equipment around, not to all but many places.
iPhone (now the ProMax) is great and has enabled me to have a camera with me at all times with vast improvement in quality of photos. and I can also not see myself anymore not having a camera phone.
For me it's a wonderful world to always have a great camera with me to capture life.
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,190
12,628
Denver, Colorado, USA
We just got back from one of our frequent trips to the UK(we love it for whatever reason :)). We don't have kids so I don't tend to shoot that sort of thing (obviously). But landscapes, a bit of street, wildlife are the things I like. Interestingly, in a very non-scientific survey of using my eyes, probably 40% of people we were around were using interchangeable lens cameras, mostly mirrorless, like X-T3 or Z6/7 (though there were a higher number than I would have imagined using full-on DSLRs). Then a reasonably large group, I'd say 15-20%, using things like the Sony RX??? and then the rest were using phones. I would have thought a higher percentage would use phones for travel snaps, and I was happy to see folks still using cameras. Of all ages, I might add. I got the sense that some people seemed to be using them as a status symbol. After all, everyone has a smartphone so it's hard to stand out:).

Also, a lot of younger folks I know here in Denver are absolutely all about film, which is also great to see. It's an image taking medium, just like digital. It has its own characteristics and its own approach. Like @mollyc , I find photography therapeutic and enjoy a wide array of tools to do it. No need to be an either/or I think. Yes, taking around an actual camera is a bit more commitment and you have to think about things more, but there are times when it's absolutely the right thing.

So grab something - anything - and go shoot!
 
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Ledgem

macrumors 68020
Jan 18, 2008
2,034
924
Hawaii, USA
I saw a screenshot comparison of an iPhone 11 Pro compared against a Sony a7R IV (Sony's latest high-resolution camera, with 61 megapixels and costing around $3,000+), which on the face of it sounds like a ridiculous comparison. But it shows to me that the concerns I had about my iPhone 7 Plus are probably still warranted:
1570574365922.png

iPhone on the left, Sony MILC on the right. As seen on Sony Alpha Rumors.

The disclaimers I'd have are that I don't know exactly what their setup was, and it could be that they chose methodology that would make the iPhone appear worse. For example, if the iPhone were shown at 200% while the Sony were only at 67% or some such thing. Based on that screenshot alone, I wouldn't read too much into it.

What I take away from it is still that the iPhone has smearing of fine details (hair, eyes) with what appears to be decent indoor lighting (either taken near a window or with artificial lighting). The deal-breaker for me still remains the skin tones. They look better here than I'd expect if they had run this test with my iPhone 7 Plus, but the skin still appears blotchy.

Granted, it also seems that they used "portrait mode" for that photo, so it's possible that some of what we're seeing represents processing artifacts. I'd also wager that if you're viewing the photo on a small screen (like your phone) then these problems wouldn't be evident. But seeing that it's still an issue makes me certain that the iPhone is still a long way from replacing my dedicated cameras.
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,244
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Tanagra (not really)
I saw a screenshot comparison of an iPhone 11 Pro compared against a Sony a7R IV (Sony's latest high-resolution camera, with 61 megapixels and costing around $3,000+), which on the face of it sounds like a ridiculous comparison. But it shows to me that the concerns I had about my iPhone 7 Plus are probably still warranted:
View attachment 867840
iPhone on the left, Sony MILC on the right. As seen on Sony Alpha Rumors.

The disclaimers I'd have are that I don't know exactly what their setup was, and it could be that they chose methodology that would make the iPhone appear worse. For example, if the iPhone were shown at 200% while the Sony were only at 67% or some such thing. Based on that screenshot alone, I wouldn't read too much into it.

What I take away from it is still that the iPhone has smearing of fine details (hair, eyes) with what appears to be decent indoor lighting (either taken near a window or with artificial lighting). The deal-breaker for me still remains the skin tones. They look better here than I'd expect if they had run this test with my iPhone 7 Plus, but the skin still appears blotchy.

Granted, it also seems that they used "portrait mode" for that photo, so it's possible that some of what we're seeing represents processing artifacts. I'd also wager that if you're viewing the photo on a small screen (like your phone) then these problems wouldn't be evident. But seeing that it's still an issue makes me certain that the iPhone is still a long way from replacing my dedicated cameras.
Portrait mode on iPhone certainly struggles with the hair/space boundary, at least for me. Some places it gets it right, other places it’s a blurry mess. It’s better if you’re wearing a hat or have a clean hairline. I don’t get much value out of it on my XR though.
 

LiE_

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Mar 23, 2013
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So I've decided to keep my Fuji camera. I really do cherish the photos I have taken of my son and our experiences and I'm sure I wouldn't be as happy with the results from the iPhone 11 pro.

I am now considering selling the Fuji X-E2s and getting a Fuji X-T30 for the increased capability, especially video. The X-E2s really isn't good for videos.

Here are a few examples of those lovely family photos 😊
I love a faded vintage style photo!

cruise-2019-34-2.jpg


cruise-2019-51.png


cruise-2019-56.png
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,190
12,628
Denver, Colorado, USA
So I've decided to keep my Fuji camera. I really do cherish the photos I have taken of my son and our experiences and I'm sure I wouldn't be as happy with the results from the iPhone 11 pro.

I am now considering selling the Fuji X-E2s and getting a Fuji X-T30 for the increased capability, especially video. The X-E2s really isn't good for videos.

Here are a few examples of those lovely family photos ?
I love a faded vintage style photo!

cruise-2019-34-2.jpg


cruise-2019-51.png


cruise-2019-56.png

I think you'll really enjoy the X-T30. I'm eyeing one myself for travel. For my travel these days, I use an X-100F, which I love, just not as flexible. I had the opportunity to shoot with an X-T30 recently (briefly) and enjoyed using both it and some fantastic Fuji glass. A light-weight body, many of the same features as the X-T3, and a great price.
 

Ledgem

macrumors 68020
Jan 18, 2008
2,034
924
Hawaii, USA
So I've decided to keep my Fuji camera. I really do cherish the photos I have taken of my son and our experiences and I'm sure I wouldn't be as happy with the results from the iPhone 11 pro.

I am now considering selling the Fuji X-E2s and getting a Fuji X-T30 for the increased capability, especially video. The X-E2s really isn't good for videos.

Here are a few examples of those lovely family photos ?
I love a faded vintage style photo!
Those are some beautiful photos, and you have a beautiful family!

I think you're making the right choice. Since you're at a crossroads, unless you're heavily invested in lenses I'd recommend also looking at other camera manufacturers to ensure that you're getting what you expect out of your camera system. I happen to find Fuji's menu system and design choices to be sub-optimal (going off of the GFX system, which is reportedly very similar to the X-system), and vastly prefer Olympus... but it's probably a matter of just going with what you know. I've heard many who switch from other systems to Olympus complain that the menu system is overly complicated, for example.

As far as video, Panasonic's cameras tend to have the best features for video (µ4/3; I'd guess their new L-mount cameras should perform similarly but I've not read much about them, aside from an early review that indicated the µ4/3 cameras were still superior). Sony also is highly rated. Olympus performs decently and for my family videos I've been very happy. I've not read much about how Fuji's X-system performs, and the zoom options seem a little bit more limited than what Olympus and Panasonic offer. But if it does what you need, then an upgraded camera body and sticking with the system you know is probably the best.
 
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LiE_

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Mar 23, 2013
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UK
I'm not heavily invested in Fuji, it is my first camera. I do really like how it handles with the dials and rings on the lenses. I just need to give some thought to whether the outlay is worth it for me. First step I think is to start using my current camera more!
 
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Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
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I'm not heavily invested in Fuji, it is my first camera. I do really like how it handles with the dials and rings on the lenses. I just need to give some thought to whether the outlay is worth it for me. First step I think is to start using my current camera more!
Hang around forums like these. It can be the push you need to get out and shoot.
 
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