Registering as a Apple Developer

[1458279]

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/12/01/steve-jobs-testimony-ipod-lawsuit/

I think this lawsuit hits on the same topic. It's about Apple's control over music running on a device they built. This would be close to the same as Apple only allowing it's apps/OS to run on it's devices.

I don't know all the details, but I remember that there were many other MP3 players back in the day, so I wonder how they address Apple restricting access to it's own device.

 

[firewood]

The anti-trust suit is based on the claim that Apple controlled (or tried to control) the majority of the digital music market. Whether that claim sticks or not will have to wait for later in the legal proceedings. But that claim is far far weaker regarding Apple in the mobile apps market space, where purveyors of PalmOS, WindowsMobile, Brew, and Android (et.al.) apps have controlled the lions share of that market for the past decade plus.

 

[1458279]

The anti-trust suit is based on the claim that Apple controlled (or tried to control) the majority of the digital music market. Whether that claim sticks or not will have to wait for later in the legal proceedings. But that claim is far far weaker regarding Apple in the mobile apps market space, where purveyors of PalmOS, WindowsMobile, Brew, and Android (et.al.) apps have controlled the lions share of that market for the past decade plus.

This is true, unless they can prove that Apple controls some segment of the market, it's going to be a hard sell.

I noticed one part that was interesting: they seem to claim that if a person buys a song (or rights to a song) for system X, that right shouldn't have to be repurchased for system Y.

So back in the old days, you could purchase a cassette or CD with music. You could play that cassette or CD in players from Sony or any of many other brands.

Now, if you purchase app X or rights to use app X, you can only run it on 1 platform unless it's some kind of content app where the purchase is for the content and the app is just a way to get to the content.

However, people have bought software for PCs that were know for being OS specific (Mac, Windows, DOS,...) So generally, a person didn't have the "right" to run Windows software on a Mac.

This could come down to "what is an app". Some consider apps as content much like music is seen.

I don't know how they would look at this because software was alway OS specific, music, generally never was.

Does a person that buys the rights to a song or the rights to listen to the song on one specific device?

Back in the old days, you had records, tapes, and CDs... (IIRC) you had the right to "rip" or transfer from one format to the other because (again, IIRC) you've purchased the rights with the original purchase. ... So, if you bought a music CD, you had the right to make a tape or MP3 from your music CD, but didn't have the right to sell or distribute the MP3.

However, if buying an iOS app allows you to run the app on anything you want, does that mean that Apple must change it's OS to run Android products? --- Can't see that happening.

 

[firewood]

I noticed one part that was interesting: they seem to claim that if a person buys a song (or rights to a song) for system X, that right shouldn't have to be repurchased for system Y.

If you purchased a song on an 8-track tape, it would not play on a 78 RPM record player. You would have to repurchase. Gramophone manufacturers didn't get sued (even if they owned the market in the 1920's).

 

[1458279]

If you purchased a song on an 8-track tape, it would not play on a 78 RPM record player. You would have to repurchase. Gramophone manufacturers didn't get sued (even if they owned the market in the 1920's).

True, but if you remember and IIRC , the ruling on the VCR was that you can record a show and watch it later without breaking the law.

Having the right to record a show with a VCR didn't start with the VCR, the ability to record (not the right to record) happened with the VCR.

So the question "do people have the right to record a show on the VCR" could be answered even if someone doesn't own a VCR. In other words, the right to free speech doesn't depend on the ability to speak, but exercising the right does.

Given that, the real question is: Does someone has the right to run an iOS app on an Android device or run a Windows app on an Apple device?

If they have that right, then they could write a mobile OS that does that and it would be legal. It wouldn't force Apple to write the OS to do that but it would allow BlackBerry to do it if they wanted to.

 

[PSB136]

If you purchased a song on an 8-track tape, it would not play on a 78 RPM record player. You would have to repurchase.

Yes, for purely physical reasons. Digital data is immune from this, so no repurchase should be required. It's why I only have MP3s on my iPhone, instead of iTunes-purchased music.

Besides, the music and movie industry has been paid by myself MANY times over for the exact same content. I bought music on tapes. Then LP. Then CD. Same albums, same artist. Triple payment to them.

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Does someone has the right to run an iOS app on an Android device or run a Windows app on an Apple device?

I don't know about legally, but morally anyone can do anything with a device they paid for and own. Apple doesn't own my iPhone; I do.

And to answer your question: yes, I do run DOS apps and DOS games on my non-jailbroken iPhone with "iDOS 2".

 

[1458279]

Yes, for purely physical reasons. Digital data is immune from this, so no repurchase should be required. It's why I only have MP3s on my iPhone, instead of iTunes-purchased music.

Besides, the music and movie industry has been paid by myself MANY times over for the exact same content. I bought music on tapes. Then LP. Then CD. Same albums, same artist. Triple payment to them.

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I don't know about legally, but morally anyone can do anything with a device they paid for and own. Apple doesn't own my iPhone; I do.

And to answer your question: yes, I do run DOS apps and DOS games on my non-jailbroken iPhone with "iDOS 2".

It would be an awesome move for BlackBerry to come up with a mobile OS that works across many devices. They've already announced a security/virus thing for several platforms. BlackBerry could make a killing because developers would only need to develop on one OS and Android is flooded with malware and that's hurting Androids move into enterprise software where Apple is king.

A universal mobile OS would save HUGE money for business, who want's to pay extra for ObjC and Java developers to do the same work twice.

BlackBerry has a strong background in security and should be able to make a true native multi-tasking OS. I know Microsoft is working on a universal development system, but I don't think it's native and I'm pretty sure it's a layer over iOS.

 

[firewood]

A universal mobile OS would save HUGE money for business ...

It already exists. It's called a browser for a web page, with Javascript as the programming language. No need for Obj C, Swift, Java or Dart (et.al.) multi-lingualism.

But a vast number of users prefer apps that behave in a customized tuned platform dependent manner. So one size won't fit all by popular demand.

And BTW, if just want to do "universal mobile" web apps, you don't need to pay Apple $99 to enroll in the iOS developer program or to submit your apps to Apple for review. Just stick your HTML5 apps on your web site with an appropriate manifest and icon.

 

[firewood]

Even in my old days when I coded apps for the Psion palmtop, Psion didn't make me cough up a single cent.

Which may be why Psion almost went under, and stopped making consumer devices over a decade ago. How valuable are Psion apps now?

Apple inhales enough cash (just the App store in a multi-Billion dollar business) that they are no danger of going under in the next few years, so a developer's investment in iOS app creation is a bit safer.

And I know a lot of EX-RIM/Blackberry developers. Just ask them if they want to try that route again... Please.

 

[1458279]

Which may be why Psion almost went under, and stopped making consumer devices over a decade ago. How valuable are Psion apps now?

Apple inhales enough cash (just the App store in a multi-Billion dollar business) that they are no danger of going under in the next few years, so a developer's investment in iOS app creation is a bit safer.

And I know a lot of EX-RIM/Blackberry developers. Just ask them if they want to try that route again... Please.

Same deal with WebOS/HP... wouldn't want to be one of them. This is why I'd like to see more of a universal native mobile OS. I really don't care who makes it, just as long as it's stable, native multi-tasking, and they stay in business.

Those Blackberry/WebOS/Psion developers are screwed and it can happen to any company. Borland and CA were large profitable companies in their day.

Given that the devices are soon to become appliances, I can see Apple having trouble keeping their share and their move to Swift instead of C++ (which they already support) was more of an isolation move and a potential threat to mobile developers.

I was a DOS programmers when it was the thing, Windows when it was the thing, and it sucks that the languages are so different, but it's understandable with the difference between DOS and Windows, but mobile is different.

As far as HTML5 goes, I don't even consider it an option, in fact I want to be native and as close the the machine as I can get.

At least Apple has enough money to keep the iOS ecosystem going for a good while, but the days of massive market growth seem to be long gone. I can see at least a stable market for years to come.

 

[firewood]

...in fact I want to be native and as close the the machine as I can get.

The cross-hardware solution for close-to-the-metal mobile development is to write apps in hand-coded low-level C. You can write 90%+ of an iOS or an Android app in plain C (plus the OpenGL C API). I've done that for iOS, and I know of game programmers who have done that using the Android NDK.

 

[PSB136]

Which may be why Psion almost went under

Nope, it was bad hardware agreements with other companies that stuffed Psion. Nothing to do with the software side of things.