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manni

macrumors regular
Mar 17, 2010
145
490
What a nonsensical story. It seems to prove yet again that twitter isn't a good place to collect evidence or decide guilt and reaffirms that feminists, as one sees with the conspiracy theories around the mythical gender pay gap, can't grasp basic statistics.

Human beings are complex and a great many, often seemingly random things, impact upon our lives. Credit card companies, like others, try to work out a way to turn those things into a number value. Unless the man who complained had exactly - and I mean exactly - the same educational record, same work record since aged 18, the same health record (and if so it would be the first time in human history such a thing has existed, even identical twins don't get that(, the same financial record, the exact same qualifications then he has no way to know on what the differences were based.

Sometimes it can be bewildering. I am no fan of parasites like Goldman Sachs and financial companies in general. But to scream "sexism" at such moments is ridiculous. My girlfriend for example found that almost everything in her life, especially insurance, went through the roof on becoming, or even just declaring herself, a journalist and returned to normal when she returned to academia.
 

manni

macrumors regular
Mar 17, 2010
145
490
Actually AFAIK this is illegal e.g. in the EU for some kind of life insurances. This means gender is not to be considered among risk factors and in fact men get a lower premium compared to their "actual" risk. Women get a higher premium compared to their risk, basically subsidizing the men's higher risk.

This is what happens when decisions are driven by political correctness instead of reality.

I think you're right. For years it was the other way around at least with car insurance. On living in a few different European countries I would frequently find that insurance companies would charge my girlfriend literally half what I had to pay - for the same car, same address. But I - I suppose like most men - didn't complain because I knew there was a reason. 18 year old boys have lots of crashes so men paid more.

It was quite funny to watch the feminists push their equality dogma so far that women had to pay higher insurance fees but it's the sort of thing that always happens when one pushes extreme ideologies onto complex human societies.
 
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[AUT] Thomas

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2016
773
970
Graz [Austria]
IMHO (!) all credit scoring need to be transparent, with +- points being able to be printed in human readable form. Or at the very least all data that is used at the input for the calculation needs to be disclosed.

Example (very hypotethical):
income (x) = 4000
no previous negative financial records (frh): +50%
criminal records (crh): clear = +25%
assets (a.5)= 50k of which e.g. a 5% is added to credit line

credit line= income*2+frh+crh+a.5 = 8000+2000+1000+2500=13'500

However, in some cases they factor in ridicolous stuff, which makes the whole thing completely intransparent.
Without knowing which factors go in, it's basically impossible for the individual to have it corrected...
 

smaffei

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2003
595
1,899
This makes total since, My wife and I have been married for many years. everything is jointly owned. But all credit cards and loans we ever get go in my name. So if something happens to me, she won't have deal with the debt. But this means that she doesn't have much credit. She got the Apple Card on her own, and her credit line is less than mine. I'm sure there are also cases or the male getting less than the female.

Um, yes. She will have to deal with the credit card debt. You will still have an estate and that estate will be responsible to pay your credit cards. You wife gets the money after the creditors of the estate have been paid. Whoever told you that she won't have to pay your credit card bills is DEAD WRONG.
 
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StuBeck

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2008
742
1,045
Apples tag line promoting when the card came out was how they weren't a bank. This makes that all seem a bit ridiculous.
 

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,192
5,270
Um, yes. She will have to deal with the credit card debt. You will still have an estate and that estate will be responsible to pay your credit cards. You wife gets the money after the creditors of the estate have been paid. Whoever told you that she won't have to pay your credit card bills is DEAD WRONG.

Not if they do things to where he has nothing in his estate. This is easy to do. The house for example isn’t in his estate because she’s on title too.

She can send the cc people the death certificate and tell them to take a hike basically.
 

Ronlap

macrumors 6502
Sep 7, 2007
269
202
San Francisco Bay Area
it's entirely possible for partners to have different credit scores, happens all the time.

Yes it is. My wife and I are primary on our own credit cards with each of us having a second on the same account. Because I out-earned her by 4x over 30 years and charged hundreds of thousands of dollars of business expenses on my cards, I have much higher limits on my cards -- a couple have $50,000 limits because I kept getting close to the limit and paying them off monthly.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
Actually AFAIK this is illegal e.g. in the EU for some kind of life insurances. This means gender is not to be considered among risk factors and in fact men get a lower premium compared to their "actual" risk. Women get a higher premium compared to their risk, basically subsidizing the men's higher risk.

This is what happens when decisions are driven by political correctness instead of reality.
True for the EU for life insurance.

I’m shocked, shocked! that politicians got something wrong. Time to send a nastygram to Brussels to voice your displeasure. That should help :rolleyes:
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
16,362
5,795
Honestly, I would like to hear your version so you can clear up why credit cards are sexist.

I’m not saying credit cards are sexist. I’m saying the retort “it’s an algorithm” doesn’t mean it’s not biased.

This is an algorithm:

Code:
if (gender=female) creditlimit=creditlimit/10

Obviously simplified. But yeah, turning logic into code doesn’t magically strip out bias.

I’m not arguing that the Apple Card algo is or isn’t sexist. I’m just saying, it’s not magically impossible for an algorithm to be biased.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
Honestly, I would like to hear your version so you can clear up why credit cards are sexist.

The question is whether or not the algorithm used to determine credit worthiness uses the gender of the applicant in its calculation.

Edit: arn demonstrates this very well above. While a credit card is unbiased object, your credit worthiness is determined by a program that was created by a person.
 
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JWreck

macrumors regular
Mar 23, 2016
193
104
This makes total since, My wife and I have been married for many years. everything is jointly owned. But all credit cards and loans we ever get go in my name. So if something happens to me, she won't have deal with the debt. But this means that she doesn't have much credit. She got the Apple Card on her own, and her credit line is less than mine. I'm sure there are also cases or the male getting less than the female.

I would highly suggest working with a lawyer or estate planner before something happens to you if this is what you’re thinking.
 
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antonis

macrumors 68020
Jun 10, 2011
2,085
1,009
I love how bankrupt, corrupt govt organizations always find time to investigate anything Apple related

Strange indeed. Especially if you consider that Apple is a golden partner of such corrupted organisations.
 

naturalstar

macrumors demi-goddess
Mar 9, 2012
2,794
5,775
Sounds like the problem is rooted in married couples being used to having joint accounts on credit cards. The wife (or husband in other cases) wants to be able to access the 10x credit limit that the spouse has, but this is just not how the Apple Card works. Each person has to stand on their own credit score, credit history, DTI ratio, etc. Some couples just don’t understand that and assume that what one gets, the other should get as well because most other credit cards work that way - add authorized user, done. Some couples are getting a lesson in how credit qualification works (scary it wasn’t known before), but the cry becomes discrimination.

Once GS/Apple figures out how to allow spouses to become authorized users, this will settle down into a non-issue.
 
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centauratlas

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2003
1,814
3,761
Florida
GS would LOVE to issue more credit to people that it believed would be able to pay it back over time. Anyone who thinks that GS is discriminating based solely on gender is naive to think that they would purposefully give someone less credit.

GS wants people to have plenty of credit, and use it, and then pay it back over months or years. They also want to ensure that people pay it back eventually. So that is the calculation they go through.

Are people really saying that GS is not putting the interests of their shareholders (many of whom are their employees) first and breaching their fiduciary duty to them in order to discriminate against women? Are people really saying that GS would rather discriminate instead of make money?
 

Glockworkorange

Suspended
Feb 10, 2015
2,511
4,184
Chicago, Illinois
I would highly suggest working with a lawyer or estate planner before something happens to you if this is what you’re thinking.
JWreck is giving you good advice.

If memory serves, you share the assets gained during the marriage.

You share the debt as well.

Don't focus so much on whose name is on the note.
 
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