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Packers1958

macrumors 68000
Apr 16, 2017
1,934
2,547
South Dakota
This is just a guess; masterbating may feel like a fire inside of you. So when she masterbatres, she is getting closer to the fire god (the sun). So if she wants to understand the god’s will, “praying” is.getting into a state of being that most resembles the fire god.



If notice, the jewelry is all very noisy. Metals and beads that provide sound. It is a way to communicate with others without talking. Just like when we put reflectors on bikes and clothes for night time walking/riding. The clothes also helps communicate. The smells that the tribe imparts, either directly (with fragrants), or indirectly (everyone in the village gets their clothes made by the same few people. So everyone should have a base smell that says “I’m part of this community”.)

It is the same way that when they are fighting in episode 1. The people chant and make clicks and pops that let your allies know your a friend. The foes have different armor and different ways of communicationg. Of course there is bound to be friendly fire. It happens with us and we can see what we are shooting at.

The fighting is a little unbelievable, but not by much. Baba Voss uses echo location tricks to confuse his enemies. He threw pebbles in an arc to hide his approach vector. He also threw his sword along the ground to make it sound like he as with his sword, not a moment behind it; this delay in timing allowed him to avoid the stike, but also let him know that he could do an attack once he got his sword back because he heard where his enemy struck.


I think we all need to not judge this show based on our abilites.

We have to remember, this is at least 10 generation of all people being blind. Natural selection says the people with extraordinary sense (the four remainging senses) would be able to pass their traits along much better than those with average senses. Overtime, leading to people gaining the ability to use echolocation, or smell the number of enemies and how fart away they are.




You must remember, the urge to pass on your legacy is very strong with animals, people included.

We have women now a days who will pregnent women, take the baby out of the now dead woman’s womb, and raise it as theirs (or sell it). It is not incomsivable for a man to want to pass on his lineage through any means, including if all he is passing on is his culture instead of it just being all about furthering his genes.
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It could be as simple as a gene random mutation that gave him immunity to the plague that took sight from mankind.

Um, one sighted person could not build that bridge across that river. It would take many, working together on both sides. Apparently the blind with such heightened awareness of sound, couldn't hear anyone building that bridge that would have taken weeks, and then maintaining it, as bridges made of ropes and wood generally need to be replaced every year or 2 because the weather would ruin the ropes and destroy the wood. Also, no way the blind could build a wall of boulders on a side of a cliff, that they could use to mow down their enemy. They also weren't always making noises when they were fighting. Swinging weapons all over the place, they would be likely to kill their own people. How did the guy know that when he threw the rope up over the cliff that he would put it around the rope of his enemy and not over his own people? There is absolutely no chance of this scenario ever occurring. If blind humans over the past 200,000 years could not develop such abilities, they surely would not over a short amount of time. This show defies all logic, and if there is not even the slightest possibility of this occurring, then it's not even science fiction, it's a farce.
 
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Wackery

Cancelled
Feb 1, 2015
1,342
1,570
Um, one sighted person could not build that bridge across that river. It would take many, working together on both sides. Apparently the blind with such heightened awareness of sound, couldn't hear anyone building that bridge that would have taken weeks, and then maintaining it, as bridges made of ropes and wood generally need to be replaced every year or 2 because the weather would ruin the ropes and destroy the wood. Also, no way the blind could build a wall of boulders on a side of a cliff, that they could use to mow down their enemy. They also weren't always making noises when they were fighting. Swinging weapons all over the place, they would be likely to kill their own people. How did the guy know that when he threw the rope up over the cliff that he would put it around the rope of his enemy and not over his own people? There is absolutely no chance of this scenario ever occurring. If blind humans over the past 200,000 years could not develop such abilities, they surely would not over a short amount of time. This show defies all logic, and if there is not even the slightest possibility of this occurring, then it's not even science fiction, it's a farce.
That is brutal.
But real talk, the show lost me in the first 10 minutes, what was Apple thinking
 
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Jim Lahey

macrumors 68020
Apr 8, 2014
2,468
5,037
I'd like to think that as this story unfolds, we will learn a lot of details that help rationalise how these people are able to function, and hopefully explain more about the world they live in. Maybe not. Time will tell...
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,641
13,142
UK
Apparently not that long because a sighted person built them a bridge to escape on.
He’s supposed to be an anomaly. Probably a genetic mutation considering that he passed on sight to his children. From my understanding it’s been hundreds maybe even thousands of years since the virus that left everyone blind. They would have to adapt. From the way it sounds there was no-one left who could see after the virus. So they have evolved as a blind society. Of course there is a lot of - use your imagination here.
 
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rmoliv

macrumors 68000
Dec 20, 2017
1,572
3,117
No one who could see was left after the virus but shouldn’t those people’s progeny be able to see nevertheless? I mean, one can be infected by a virus or bacteria that leaves them blind, or become blind due to other illnesses such as glaucoma or diabetes yet that is not passed on to their children. The virus would’ve had to have caused mutations in people’s genomes so that the following generations would have been blind too. Am I right? It seems that the showrunners didn’t get scientific advice from any medical experts, anthropologists, linguists and so on. Definitely not watching the episodes left. As someone said, this is not science fiction but a farce.
 
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Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,641
13,142
UK
Um, one sighted person could not build that bridge across that river. It would take many, working together on both sides. Apparently the blind with such heightened awareness of sound, couldn't hear anyone building that bridge that would have taken weeks, and then maintaining it, as bridges made of ropes and wood generally need to be replaced every year or 2 because the weather would ruin the ropes and destroy the wood. Also, no way the blind could build a wall of boulders on a side of a cliff, that they could use to mow down their enemy. They also weren't always making noises when they were fighting. Swinging weapons all over the place, they would be likely to kill their own people. How did the guy know that when he threw the rope up over the cliff that he would put it around the rope of his enemy and not over his own people? There is absolutely no chance of this scenario ever occurring. If blind humans over the past 200,000 years could not develop such abilities, they surely would not over a short amount of time. This show defies all logic, and if there is not even the slightest possibility of this occurring, then it's not even science fiction, it's a farce.
It’s not the same as blind humans in our society. In our society blind people are a minority. The world is adapted for people with sight. Blind people can get assistance from people with sight. In this reality everyone is blind. The circumstance are not the same. Blind people in our reality are not under the same pressures to adapt as the blind people in that world would be.
 
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Packers1958

macrumors 68000
Apr 16, 2017
1,934
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South Dakota
It’s not the same as blind humans in our society. In our society blind people are a minority. The world is adapted for people with sight. Blind people can get assistance from people with sight. In this reality everyone is blind. The circumstance are not the same. Blind people in our reality are not under the same pressures to adapt as the blind people in that world would be.

The world does not adapt. We either survive or go extinct. Blind people without the help of the sighted would cease to exist. Wild sighted animals would take advantage of a world full of blind people and consume us. We would like to think we would continue on if some terrible tragedy fell upon humanity, but in reality, we become extinct and another species on the earth would evolve to colonize the earth. The earth is 5 billion years old. Humans have only existed for 200,000 years, a mere few seconds of the planet's history. The earth will exist for another 4 billion years, before our sun consumes us. If we were to die off in 500 years, another specie or species would have billions more years to evolve and replace us. The blind would become the weak species, and a sighted less intelligent species of animals would evolve and wipe us out. The weak do not survive, thus a world full of blind people makes no sense and is completely illogical.
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,641
13,142
UK
No one who could see was left after the virus but shouldn’t those people’s progeny be able to see nevertheless? I mean, one can be infected by a virus or bacteria that leaves them blind, or become blind due to other illnesses such as glaucoma or diabetes yet that is not passed on to their children. The virus would’ve had to cause mutations in people’s genomes so that the following generations would have been blind too. Am I right? It seems that the showrunners didn’t get scientific advice from any medical experts, anthropologists, linguists and so on. Definitely not watching the episodes left. As someone said, this is not science fiction but a farce.
Epigenetics.

However it’s a only a TV show. A lot of TV shows/books would fall apart if they had to conform to reality. A lot of things we have to accept in fiction even if they are not possible based on current scientific thinking. Look at Star Trek, they have transporters and replicators and warp drives that can take them to other galaxies.

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The world does not adapt. We either survive or go extinct. Blind people without the help of the sighted would cease to exist. Wild sighted animals would take advantage of a world full of blind people and consume us. We would like to think we would continue on if some terrible tragedy fell upon humanity, but in reality, we become extinct and another species on the earth would evolve to colonize the earth. The earth is 5 billion years old. Humans have only existed for 200,000 years, a mere few seconds of the planet's history. The earth will exist for another 4 billion years, before our sun consumes us. If we were to die off in 500 years, another specie or species would have billions more years to evolve and replace us. The blind would become the weak species, and a sighted less intelligent species of animals would evolve and wipe us out. The weak do not survive, thus a world full of blind people makes no sense and is completely illogical.
Yes there is biological adaptation to the environment but there are a lot of things that are man made. Made by people with sight and designed for people with sight. It’s only because of legislation that buildings and other services get adapted for people who are disabled. The default position in our world is for people with sight. Blind people are an afterthought, and adaptations may or may not be made to accommodate blind people. In that world blind people are the overwhelming majority and thus caters to blind people.
 
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AlliFlowers

macrumors 601
Jan 1, 2011
4,542
15,755
L.A. (Lower Alabama)
My husband watched episode 1 with me. I watched the other 2 by myself. I kept comparing it to the recently cancelled Into the Badlands, a show that I enjoyed thoroughly, but had no expectations from because it swung widely and wildly from possible reality to magic.

Remember that in See, sight has been gone so long that they refer to it as a myth.
 

Jimmy James

macrumors 603
Oct 26, 2008
5,488
4,067
Magicland
Can’t believe people really find this show “fantastic”.

SPOILERS

After watching the 2nd episode all I can say is that this dystopian world makes no sense at all. It’s hard to believe humans would evolve in such a way even if they had lost sight. Moreover, why body paintings and jewelry when no one can see? And how did the kids learn to read on their own??? After 12 years the characters didn’t get physically older? The whole story looks like it was written by a 10-year old... Not sure I’ll watch it past episode 3.

3/10 so far for the cinematography and sound.

I’m towards the tail end of the second episode. The adornments I’ve really noticed are either weapons, braille-type message strands, or noise makers. Makes sense.
 

Packers1958

macrumors 68000
Apr 16, 2017
1,934
2,547
South Dakota
Epigenetics.

However it’s a only a TV show. A lot of TV shows/books would fall apart if they had to conform to reality. A lot of things we have to accept in fiction even if they are not possible based on current scientific thinking. Look at Star Trek, they have transporters and replicators and warp drives that can take them to other galaxies.

[automerge]1572871537[/automerge]

Yes there is biological adaptation to the environment but there are a lot of things that are man made. Made by people with sight and designed for people with sight. It’s only because of legislation that buildings and other services get adapted for people who are disabled. The default position in our world is for people with sight. Blind people are an afterthought, and adaptations may or may not be made to accommodate blind people. In that world blind people are the overwhelming majority and thus caters to blind people.

A world full of blind people would never exist. They would not survive. Period. It would be the extinction of humans. Humans almost became extinct 75,000 years ago when super volcano Toba erupted and caused most humans to die of starvation. It is estimated only about 10,000 humans survived in parts of Africa. We were that close to not existing and thus no future. Only the strongest and fittest survive, not blind people running around trying to figure out how to survive. The storyline of this show would never occur. Nature would never allow it. It consumes the weak, to make room for the fittest. It's called evolution.
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,641
13,142
UK
A world full of blind people would never exist. They would not survive. Period. It would be the extinction of humans. Humans almost became extinct 75,000 years ago when super volcano Toba erupted and caused most humans to die of starvation. It is estimated only about 10,000 humans survived in parts of Africa. We were that close to not existing and thus no future. Only the strongest and fittest survive, not blind people running around trying to figure out how to survive. The storyline of this show would never occur. Nature would never allow it. It consumes the weak, to make room for the fittest. It's called evolution.
Yes but it’s only a TV show. It’s not real life.
 

Jim Lahey

macrumors 68020
Apr 8, 2014
2,468
5,037
I think some people might be overthinking all of this. Granted it requires suspension of disbelief, but at the end of the day it's a fictional drama, not a documentary. Having said that, I do understand that it will put some people off, and that's fine, not every TV show is going to be enjoyed by everyone. If I stop enjoying it I will stop watching it and the world will continue to turn.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
15,831
18,374
US
A world full of blind people would never exist. They would not survive. Period. It would be the extinction of humans. Humans almost became extinct 75,000 years ago when super volcano Toba erupted and caused most humans to die of starvation. It is estimated only about 10,000 humans survived in parts of Africa. We were that close to not existing and thus no future. Only the strongest and fittest survive, not blind people running around trying to figure out how to survive. The storyline of this show would never occur. Nature would never allow it. It consumes the weak, to make room for the fittest. It's called evolution.
Those are my thoughts too.....They would not have had time to evolve as they would become extinct.
Mother nature would have taken care of the weak species. The rest of the predators in this world would have become the apex predators. The natural balance of things would change within a generation. There would be no sighted people to show those who suddenly lost sight the way. No one to protect them.

Without humans to keep them in check wildlife populations would explode. Bears, wolves mountain lions would be the hunters and humans would be the prey.
 

Xenden

macrumors 6502
Jun 14, 2013
262
383
Rio Rancho, NM
I know the Jerlamarel guy left the simpler books on top, still how does a child link each letter and syllable to their phonemes just by looking at pictures?

Before I entered 1st grade, my mom did not know anything about phonetics. She learned to read by associating the word how it was pronounced.

If I was going to leave someone with books and leave it to them to figure out how to read I'd do the following:

I'd first copy the easy books, verbatim, in the string language. The kids could then learn what the abc type books said. I'd maybe even write (tie) phonetics lessons that teach what the letters sound like.

That is how children are taught how to pronounce letters or letter combos. Ph makes a f sound like in phone and etc.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but kids are good at learning new and difficult lessons that adults find difficult. Leave a 5 year old with an iPad and they will pretty much figure out how to use 90% of the features on their own.


Um, one sighted person could not build that bridge across that river. It would take many, working together on both sides.

It wouldn't neccesarily take many people. Jaramarel could have built all the slats and wove them together off site. Then when the winter was up, built the two end points and strung the bridge. He had six uninterrupted months to do this. If he planned this before the pregnancy, he would have had much longer than six months.

I will conceded one thing though, that bridge look pretty aged.

Apparently the blind with such heightened awareness of sound, couldn't hear anyone building that bridge that would have taken weeks, and then maintaining it, as bridges made of ropes and wood generally need to be replaced every year or 2 because the weather would ruin the ropes and destroy the wood.

Remember after the wall fell, they realized that the bulk of the army hid themselves by sticking to the noisy river? Now, combine the sound of the water fall going through the gourge, with the fact they the tribe was terrified to go any where near there because they thought it was certain death to go past the sound line they made.

... and then maintaining it, as bridges made of ropes and wood generally need to be replaced every year or 2 because the weather would ruin the ropes and destroy the wood.

Again, there is no reason to believe that the bridge was there any longer than six months.

Also, no way the blind could build a wall of boulders on a side of a cliff, that they could use to mow down their enemy.

10 generations, which is at least what we are talking about, is 400 years. It is not impossible that the blind couldn't construct a boulder wall. Sighted people built the pyramids. We all need to stop limiting ourselves based on what we think is possible.

Neccessity is the mother of invention. Not having defenses is an existential crisis; and again, they've had at least 400 years to build that thing.

They also weren't always making noises when they were fighting. Swinging weapons all over the place, they would be likely to kill their own people. How did the guy know that when he threw the rope up over the cliff that he would put it around the rope of his enemy and not over his own people?

If you train long enough, you learn to anticipate your teams actions. If you know that there is a person who is responsible for charging in, and that person knows that there is a person responsible for throwing a projectile weapons, they may have trained to give each other a certain amount of time before the weapon is thrown. The charging person would know they need to duck down after that time frame is allotted.

Of course though, there is always friendly fire. It happens even now a days and we have the most advanced weaponry in human history.

If blind humans over the past 200,000 years could not develop such abilities, they surely would not over a short amount of time. This show defies all logic, and if there is not even the slightest possibility of this occurring, then it's not even science fiction, it's a farce.

Natural selection says that being blind is a handicap to being sighted. So those who are born blind, must adapt to a sighted world. Ultimately, our world goes out of our way to give the blind a better quality of life by requiring business and governments to provide special services that allow them to compete on a somewhat level plane as their sighted competitors.

But when the whole world is blind, natural selection says that the blind who have better hearing and better olfactory and tactile abilities are going to do a much better job with passing on their progeny because they are more likely to survive until sexual maturity.

This show defies all logic, and if there is not even the slightest possibility of this occurring, then it's not even science fiction, it's a farce.

I think your are trying to make this show sound silly by using anecdotal examples to diss the show. Maybe I'm wrong, if so sorry.

No one who could see was left after the virus but shouldn’t those people’s progeny be able to see nevertheless? I mean, one can be infected by a virus or bacteria that leaves them blind, or become blind due to other illnesses such as glaucoma or diabetes yet that is not passed on to their children.

I think it is kinda following the same idea as the episode from Star Trek DS9 called The Quickening.

The diesease is passed from mother to child. Eventually, there is a mutation in the fetus that gives them an immunity to the disease. Either the mutation is in the retina and it allows vision again, or the mutation is in the immune system and it allows them to become immune/inoculated from the virus/bacteria.

Or it could be that the virus is still around and the fetus loses its sight as it develops because the virus is passed from the environment to the mother to the fetus.

A world full of blind people would never exist. They would not survive. Period. It would be the extinction of humans. Humans almost became extinct 75,000 years ago when super volcano Toba erupted and caused most humans to die of starvation. It is estimated only about 10,000 humans survived in parts of Africa. We were that close to not existing and thus no future. Only the strongest and fittest survive, not blind people running around trying to figure out how to survive. The storyline of this show would never occur. Nature would never allow it. It consumes the weak, to make room for the fittest. It's called evolution.

The main threat to life was lack of food, not an illness that killed almost all human life.

It is true that survival of the fittest is in play; but if everyone is blind, the survival of the fittest would mean the people with the best genes to adapt to a blind world would create children.

And we aren't talking about 10,000 people we are talking about millions more than likely. Current population is at ~8 billion. Even if only 1% of people survive, we are left with 80 million survivors.

Also, there are plenty of animals that have poor eye sight, but better senses in other areas that have extraordinary abilities that we find amazing.

I'm not arguing that there is enough time for any type of evolution, but I am arguing that there has been enough time that people with better smell, sight, taste, and touch have begun to emerge; and that they would have the ability to compensate for the loss of sight.
 
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unclemax

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2015
289
247
I really want to like this show: cinematography is beautiful, acting is decent, and I like the setting, I love pre-historic stuff, broadly speaking. But as I watched those three episodes I kept thinking: Why was this show even made? Cook mentioned employing vision impaired actors, and that’s a really cool idea! But the plot has so many holes that it just looks like someone wished the show into existence without doing any critical back and forth. Is it like charity for those vision impaired guys, Apple virtue signaling at their expense? I am kind of disappointed, not just as a consumer, but also at the poor execution of a really nice, fresh idea.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors G3
Oct 27, 2009
8,778
10,844
Don't discount heighten senses.

For example ...


Now they weren't using clicks in this series. But they did show how some people had more specialized senses than others.

So IMO, this series is not as unbelievable as so many are claiming.
 

hinesmj

macrumors 6502
Nov 19, 2015
344
248
New York
I watched the first episode, and it literally is the best comedy of 2019. Classic B movie rubbish. Even in one's wildest imagination, it's totally absurd. If this is the best that Apple can offer, they won't be around long. Disney and Netflix are laughing at this waste of money.

I didn't even make it through the first episode.
 
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MCFS

macrumors member
Aug 31, 2018
31
7
When is Apple adding new episodes? (I know it's 1 every week)
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
From Blade Runner 2049 to See, Sylvia Hoeks can play mega-psycho like nobody else. I don’t know where she gets her intensity, bizarre cadence and idiosyncracies... it’s like she’s possessed.
 
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MCFS

macrumors member
Aug 31, 2018
31
7
From Blade Runner 2049 to See, Sylvia Hoeks can play mega-psycho like nobody else. I don’t know where she gets her intensity, bizarre cadence and idiosyncracies... it’s like she’s possessed.

Then you really need to see Joaquin Phoenix in the Joker! :D
 
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