Seriously, F Apple lately

[Alameda]

I think MacOS would be much better if Apple didn’t update it every year. The new features usually aren’t worthwhile. Security updates and bug fixes, sure. But I don’t think Mac users are benefitting from this silly upgrade schedule; I think really it’s hurting us and the developers and the ecosystem.

 

[AustinIllini]

It's not that we are asking Apple to support serial drives or Cassettes, we are simply asking for the continued function of apps whose functionality has not yet been matched by a modern product. There are plenty of apps that are 32 bit or have enough 32 bit code to stop functioning on Catalina that are still part of people's workflow. People may claim that they need to "move on" but without the porting of missing functions to newer versions of these apps or creations of a new version of a type of app it is not feasible.

I know people who have thousands of dollars of audio equipment that is operated on Mac software. It's been that way since 07. And just now they can no longer update, or their equipment will stop working with the computer. Aperture is another example, there are a lot of people who love and still use that app because they prefer its function and workflow, and now they are forced to move on or stay with Mojave. Dashboard workflows have been wiped out as well. While that one is more understandable than the other two, it was only removed because it was 32 bit code. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of additional examples of apps that are essential to people's workflow and/or jobs that have been rendered useless without viable replacement by this. We are on x64 platform still, this is a pointless move.

Just because these people are not the majority does not mean they are old hermits that should be silenced, but Apple doesn't seem to consider business or editors that will be left in the cold by this change. Just because something is old, does not mean we need to remove it. By that logic we should not use physical keyboards, as they date to the 19th century.

This is starting to become "old man yells at cloud". You seriously are simply denying the truth that all software eventually goes out of support.

You're just saying the same trivial nonsense over and over again and it's just silly. Software goes out of support. 64bit OSs have existed since Snow Leopard. That's most of a decade.

You're drawing wrong conclusion because you can't accept the truth. It's time to move on. You made a mistake with your workflow software choices and now you're paying for it.

 

[retta283]

This is starting to become "old man yells at cloud". You seriously are simply denying the truth that all software eventually goes out of support.

You're just saying the same trivial nonsense over and over again and it's just silly. Software goes out of support. 32bit OSs have existed since Snow Leopard.

You're drawing wrong conclusion because you can't accept the truth. It's time to move on.

Some people who have spent up to or more than $10,000 on hardware that only will work with 32 bit software would see this quite differently. There is a point where software cannot be run on modern computers due to issues (CPU speed becoming too fast for programming, causing strange bugs) but we are still on the same macOS frame from 2001, the same Intel frame from 2006, and the same x64 frame from 2005-2009. This was an unneeded removal as it stands. If this happened during the supposed ARM switch we would not see nearly as much outrage. You don't seem to understand the way Windows handles it, I can still run software I purchased 20 years ago on a brand new Windows 10 laptop if I'd like. Because they haven't torn up their old framework just to throw it in the bin. It still works, it's a part of the system, and it is left as so.

I don't see the obsession with "moving on" and "killing the past" when it is pointless. We aren't talking about using monochrome displays in 2019, this is real software that many still use and enjoy. Tell the businesses to move on. They will stay on Mojave until their equipment fails. I know businesses that still use Windows 2000 and XP, do you wonder why that is?

I have little stake on the issue myself because I will never find myself without a Mac that can run 32-bit unless their is an EMP or similar. But for those whose workflows rely on it, they are left with little option. Sorry to say that sometimes things don't move forward constantly.

 

[AustinIllini]

Some people who have spent up to or more than $10,000 on hardware that only will work with 32 bit software would see this quite differently. There is a point where software cannot be run on modern computers due to issues (CPU speed becoming too fast for programming, causing strange bugs) but we are still on the same macOS frame from 2001, the same Intel frame from 2006, and the same x64 frame from 2005-2009. This was an unneeded removal as it stands. If this happened during the supposed ARM switch we would not see nearly as much outrage. You don't seem to understand the way Windows handles it, I can still run software I purchased 20 years ago on a brand new Windows 10 laptop if I'd like. Because they haven't torn up their old framework just to throw it in the bin. It still works, it's a part of the system, and it is left as so.

I don't see the obsession with "moving on" and "killing the past" when it is pointless. We aren't talking about using monochrome displays in 2019, this is real software that many still use and enjoy. Tell the businesses to move on. They will stay on Mojave until their equipment fails. I know businesses that still use Windows 2000 and XP, do you wonder why that is?

I have little stake on the issue myself because I will never find myself without a Mac that can run 32-bit unless their is an EMP or similar. But for those whose workflows rely on it, they are left with little option. Sorry to say that sometimes things don't move forward constantly.

It's clear you just don't understand how technology works. It was understood the better part of a decade ago that 64 bit was the new standard and that 32 bit apps were going to be deprecated.

That day has come. If you rely on developers that haven't gone to 32 bit, you're going to have to find another workflow because 32 bit apps are gone and your workflow developers didn't care enough about your business to upgrade the software.

And spare us the $10,000 BS. I have spent far more than that on unsupported hardware and software. Literally everything you buy will be technologically obsolete. But seriously, your ignorance is tiring.

 

[levander]

And the two modal notices you had to click through in Reminders on the phone telling you about the upgrade and what would happen, those weren't relevant. Got it.

I was aware of them after I saw them. I usually add reminders via Siri. Now it’s possible when I added the reminder to pay my car insurance, Siri prompted me saying the Reminders list had been upgraded and how I had been using Reminders for years no longer works due to a decision made by Apple. But I have no recollection of such prompting and really don’t think Siri did.
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If it is anything like their support good luck. My Thinkpad constantly reminds me to login to to get the latest updates. Only the damn thing will not allow you to login. Go to their support page and try to contact anybody, it is useless as well. Luckily it seem my laptop will survive until early January when the warranty runs out. Otherwise my experience tells me it will be useless trying to get it repaired if it breaks there is no way to contact them.

I’ve never used any Lenovo product. I’ve just noticed people mentioning them here and there saying they liked them. So I’m not one of their proponents yet, I’m just looking into it. Joe Rogan has no real technical knowledge, but he is an avid tech user. And he is a pretty famous guy who’s said he’s a fan of their laptops.

Are you talking about the Windows updates that you’re complaining about? That sounds more like a Microsoft thing than a Lenovo thing. Or is this a Windows bug that happens only on Lenovo’s for some reason?
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I think MacOS would be much better if Apple didn’t update it every year. The new features usually aren’t worthwhile. Security updates and bug fixes, sure. But I don’t think Mac users are benefitting from this silly upgrade schedule; I think really it’s hurting us and the developers and the ecosystem.

I would love it if Apple acted more like Toyota and less like Mercedes-Benz. I laugh at people driving ridiculous expensive Mercedes cars with all the repairs they also have to pay for. And I’m start to feel more and more like one of them being an Apple user.

 

[levander]

The comparison was to software development and delivery 20 years ago. That isn't an excuse for buggy software, but customer are always beta testers for new software releases and that isn't limited to Apple. Google "Windows 10 buggy releases". Fact is that OS have become much more complex and connected and any comparison to what used to be just isn't relevant, which is the point I was making.

It’s not beta testing if you’re release software that’s been thoroughly tested and has no known bugs. And I did that just fine for years as a professional software developer myself. And usually the end users wouldn’t find anything. It would happen that they’d find something. But that was an embarrassment. Not a to-be-expected as religious Apple followers would have you believe is part of the gospel.

 

[Brien]

Back when OS upgrades costs >$100, you were right. Those days are over.

Welcome to modern day. The machine is warranted to run on a supported operating system. Older operating systems get some security fixes but for most issues Apple is going to recommend you go to the latest version of macOS.

I have to say this ‘modern’ mentality that users MUST always been on the newest OS, be it a phone, PC, game console, smart device etcetera is so, so stupid.

If security demands it, IMO, rip off the band aid, and force background updates and make it painless. Anything in between is user hostile.

Rant over.

 

[TopherMan12]

It’s not beta testing if you’re release software that’s been thoroughly tested and has no known bugs. And I did that just fine for years as a professional software developer myself. And usually the end users wouldn’t find anything. It would happen that they’d find something. But that was an embarrassment. Not a to-be-expected as religious Apple followers would have you believe is part of the gospel.

I'm a software developer myself. 20+ years of experience. And "no known bugs" is incredibly loaded as any software developer knows there are bugs in complex software that the consumer masses will find that the most rigorous testing does not.

Why are you pretending that software released with bugs is somehow something new and somehow reserved for Apple? Do you know nothing of the long sordid history of Windows releases? But this narrative that you are pushing that non-Apple products are released largely bug-free, or with bugs no one would encounter.....that is just a fantasy.

 

[posguy99]

Apple has not only forced me to jump through hoops to keep Catalina off my machines but also made upgrading to newer hardware a non-option.

This is a really difficult situation and there are no good options available for me. At least, for Windows applications I could keep running them in a VM, but with Apple I'm screwed (you can only legally run macOS VMs on Apple hardware).

What am I missing? You expect them to continue updating the old software to support the new hardware, while supporting the new software on the new hardware as well? How is this any different than Microsoft, who are not supporting Windows 7 on the current generation of Intel PC's? How is this different than *any* other company that releases new hardware?

Regarding "hoops"... all you have to do is, well, not install Catalina, if you don't want it. What's so hard? If you don't want to see the notice that it's available, telling Software Update to ignore it is a single line one-time command. Neither my desktop nor my laptop are running Catalina, and won't be before next June, if they ever are at all.

 

[posguy99]

I was aware of them after I saw them. I usually add reminders via Siri. Now it’s possible when I added the reminder to pay my car insurance, Siri prompted me saying the Reminders list had been upgraded and how I had been using Reminders for years no longer works due to a decision made by Apple. But I have no recollection of such prompting and really don’t think Siri did.

It didn't. YOU were shown two prompts when YOU launched Reminders and YOU agreed to the upgrade. You could have added things through Siri forever and it would never have upgraded.

Entitled gotta be entitled. I understand you think it's Apple's fault but it just isn't so.

 

[Anarchy99]

For me, i don't bother with Terminal fixes or anything,, I just disable "check for updates" .. This is more brutel as it won't check for *anything again*, but for me, i always prefer cutting the 'throat first,',

I respect that choice, but I prefer to get security updates thus I need to leave updates and enabled, I suppose in the strictest sense you can say that I'm opting into the harassment to upgrade to Mojave.

my point is, it shouldn't be that kind of binary choice, I am their client they should do what I want if they want my continued patronage.
there used to be a time where you didn't need to trick an apple machine into doing what you want it feels very 90s Microsoftian of them.

just like trying to take away from the everywhere option for installing apps in security, or having to run through hoops to turn off system integrity protection etc.
sure terminal tweaks for most if not all of these things exist, but there doesn't need to be.
as I pointed out earlier in the topic Apple can Infer a lot from the choices i've made/the hardware configuration I have, as for all the gatekeeping all it would take as a yes or no question to be an advanced user at the point of installation.

 

[Alameda]

I was aware of them after I saw them. I usually add reminders via Siri. Now it’s possible when I added the reminder to pay my car insurance, Siri prompted me saying the Reminders list had been upgraded and how I had been using Reminders for years no longer works due to a decision made by Apple. But I have no recollection of such prompting and really don’t think Siri did.
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I’ve never used any Lenovo product. I’ve just noticed people mentioning them here and there saying they liked them. So I’m not one of their proponents yet, I’m just looking into it. Joe Rogan has no real technical knowledge, but he is an avid tech user. And he is a pretty famous guy who’s said he’s a fan of their laptops.

Are you talking about the Windows updates that you’re complaining about? That sounds more like a Microsoft thing than a Lenovo thing. Or is this a Windows bug that happens only on Lenovo’s for some reason?
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I would love it if Apple acted more like Toyota and less like Mercedes-Benz. I laugh at people driving ridiculous expensive Mercedes cars with all the repairs they also have to pay for. And I’m start to feel more and more like one of them being an Apple user.

There’s no excuse for Apple’s lack of repairability. They claim they are LEEDS certified, but how can they be if their products all become millions of tons of junk after a single component fails?

 

[Anarchy99]

There’s no excuse for Apple’s lack of repairability. They claim they are LEEDS certified, but how can they be if their products all become millions of tons of junk after a single component fails?

im more offended by all their virtue signaling about being green, when they fight right to repair bills etc.

whether you love Apple or hate them, it's not more economical or more green to replace an entire logic board if a 2¢ capacitor could fix the problem.

I understand Apple along with its "geniuses" are the McDonald's of computer repair and it may not be economically viable for them to do such detailed/delicate repairs, but they shouldn't artificially prevent people who can not only make it profitable but better for the environment and the customer base.

instead, they opt to lie, obfuscate and any other dirty but usually legal trick to maintain their market position, it's gross.

 

[AidenShaw]

There are plenty of apps that are 32 bit or have enough 32 bit code to stop functioning on Catalina that are still part of people's workflow.

For what it's worth, when Microsoft put x64 support in Windows, the x64 versions dropped support for 16-bit DOS programs. All my tools from the early 1980's broke....

 

[levander]

I'm a software developer myself. 20+ years of experience. And "no known bugs" is incredibly loaded as any software developer knows there are bugs in complex software that the consumer masses will find that the most rigorous testing does not.

Why are you pretending that software released with bugs is somehow something new and somehow reserved for Apple? Do you know nothing of the long sordid history of Windows releases? But this narrative that you are pushing that non-Apple products are released largely bug-free, or with bugs no one would encounter.....that is just a fantasy.

Never said it was new. Don’t know why you’re acting like I am. There have always been companies with poor quality reputations. But I’ve worked on plenty of proejects writing enterprise software for Fortune 500 companies that included components that were facing their customers. And some of those teams regularly completed projects to customers were there were zero complaints or issues with the finished software.

It’s not impossible. It happens all the time.

 

[levander]

It didn't. YOU were shown two prompts when YOU launched Reminders and YOU agreed to the upgrade. You could have added things through Siri forever and it would never have upgraded.

Entitled gotta be entitled. I understand you think it's Apple's fault but it just isn't so.

Ignoring your personal insults, I did a Google search to try to figure out what you’re talking about. Apparently there was a dialog, but I have no recollection of seeing that thing. It wouldn’t surprise me if with all the other iOS 13 bugs I’ve seen mentioned looking into this, the upgrade process just failed to recognize my older iPad. Because that dialog is saying you have to upgrade these other devices. But this device can’t be upgraded. It’s an iPad Air 1st gen which was left off the supported list for iOS/iPadOS 13. So if my iPad were mentioned in that dialog, it would have been incorrect. Because it would have been saying I needed to upgrade my iPad. But Apple won’t let me upgrade my iPad.

And as the article I found the best information in mentions, I was far from the only one who wasn’t saved by that dialog:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/30/...oken-icloud-sync-macos-catalina-delay-upgrade

Also,That “New Features Requires an Upgrade” dialog shown in that article is one of the worst worded dialogs I’ve seen in a long time. It reads “To access your upgraded iCloud reminders on the following devices, they need to be upgraded.” Now even when I go back knowing more about what’s going on than when I figured there upgraded, my first interpretation of that is that if I create a reminder on this upgraded device, it won’t be viewable on these un-upgraded devices. And I wouldn’t have been worried about that scenario because my iPad is an old device I never use to get work done. It’s just something I use when I’m relaxing and am about to replace anyway cause it’s so old. I will occasionally create a reminder on it so I don’t have to worry about remembering something myself, just like I did that night I made the reminder when to pay my car insurance. So even if I remember faultily and I did see that dialog, that dialog wouldn’t have saved me because my interpretation of it would have been fine with my work flow. I donkt need to see any newly created upgraded reminder on my iPad because I don’t use that iPad when I’m getting work done,

But because I’ve played with it and been burned by it, I now know that interpretation of what it’s saying is incorrect. A better way to word what happens is “If you upgrade the Reminders app on this device, you won’t be able to sync any of your reminders here with any of the following un-upgraded devices.”

I think the difference is that I think of iCloud reminders as individual things I use to remind myself of individual things. Because that’s how I use them. But how the Apple developer thinks of iCloud Reminders is as a dataset he’s using iCloud to group things together with.

Not to mention the pure cheapness of the world’s most valuable company not even bothering to include functionality where you can at least view reminders from subsequent versions of their operating systems. Reminders is not a complex app. I can’t wait to find out how they “upgraded” something so simple that they had to break backwards compatibility. And then couldn’t even afford to implement even basic viewability (even if you leave out the ability to edit) of reminders across subsequent iOS versions. Any developer who didn’t realize breaking compatibility here was going to cause problems was an absolute dunce. Somebody had to have known this was going to happen. Just nobody decided to do anything about it.

 

[levander]

im more offended by all their virtue signaling about being green, when they fight right to repair bills etc.

whether you love Apple or hate them, it's not more economical or more green to replace an entire logic board if a 2¢ capacitor could fix the problem.

I understand Apple along with its "geniuses" are the McDonald's of computer repair and it may not be economically viable for them to do such detailed/delicate repairs, but they shouldn't artificially prevent people who can not only make it profitable but better for the environment and the customer base.

instead, they opt to lie, obfuscate and any other dirty but usually legal trick to maintain their market position, it's gross.

Talk about virtue signaling...

My favorite thing about all the problems with iOS 13 is the only thing you hear Tim Cook talk about in the public media is financial results and politics. I just loved hearing him talk about how important DACA is the other day...

I understand the guy is a public figure and really kind of has to get involved with Trump because the trade disputes affects Apple’s earnings so dearly. But come on man, show some respect to the people using your products. You gotta say something. At least acknowledge you guys are working on this.

Subaru is a car company who’s had a high quality reputation. But in the last couple of years they’ve had more than a few recalls. Media reports indicates it’s growing pains and some of their suppliers are cutting corners to keep up with demands. Subaru’s president has personally remarked on the situation a couple of times and now I’m really pulling for this company and if they can get a couple of years of good reliability reports, we’re gonna buy my Mom a Subaru Outback.

In mid-September iOS 13.0 was released. It’s late November now and we’re on like iOS 13.3.3 (I forget exactly and am too lazy to check). Tim, why have so many releases come out so fast?

 

[TopherMan12]

Never said it was new. Don’t know why you’re acting like I am.

No, you are pretending it is unheard of and only a group akin to a religious cult like "Apple followers" believe otherwise.

Just not true

There have always been companies with poor quality reputations. But I’ve worked on plenty of proejects writing enterprise software for Fortune 500 companies that included components that were facing their customers.

Why are you comparing enterprise level development to Apple OS dev? Enterprise rests 3 or 4 levels above the OS. You are benefited by large mature APIs, multiple tiers, automatic memory management, and more. You've still got errors being thrown in the background but they are not system breaking like they would be if they occurred at the OS level. Apples and oranges.

In mid-September iOS 13.0 was released. It’s late November now and we’re on like iOS 13.3.3 (I forget exactly and am too lazy to check). Tim, why have so many releases come out so fast?

Oh please.
Windows 10: Microsoft serves up 40 new bug fixes

 

[Hitrate]

Bad Apple seeding a horrrible doomed iOS 13. Glad I stayed on 12.4 though I miss Garageband and cannot use any code app because the world is filled with blind spineless sheep.

 

[levander]

No, you are pretending it is unheard of and only a group akin to a religious cult like "Apple followers" believe otherwise.

Just not true



Why are you comparing enterprise level development to Apple OS dev? Enterprise rests 3 or 4 levels above the OS. You are benefited by large mature APIs, multiple tiers, automatic memory management, and more. You've still got errors being thrown in the background but they are not system breaking like they would be if they occurred at the OS level. Apples and oranges.



Oh please.
Windows 10: Microsoft serves up 40 new bug fixes

No, what’s going on is you believe I’m responding to pre-determined beliefs already in your head. Then complaining that you donkt sound religious.

Doing you the favor you’re not doing me, I read those links you posted trying to understand where you coming from. You realize those 40 Windows 10 bugs were all fixed in one release? How many of those one releases has Apple had in nthe last two months since iOS 13 was released? And the bugs that article highlights, not a single one would have affected me or the vast majority of casual users. Apple has issues in iO3 like the mail app has major flaws. And the podcast doesn’t auto-download podcasts any more. And it mysteriously deletes podcasts that you went and downloaded manually. Major swaths of casual iPhone users use those apps. And Windows 10 was Microsoft’s biggest release for 5 years, since Windows 8 was released. To Apple users, iOS 13 was just another release that Apple does every year. Well, until we found out how awful this release is anyway.

Was the point you are trying to make that Apple is on par with Microsoft? If you read those articles and compare it to what is commonly known about iOS 13, your evidence actually shows Apple is far behind Microsoft.

 

[TopherMan12]

No, what’s going on is you believe I’m responding to pre-determined beliefs already in your head. Then complaining that you donkt sound religious.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Doing you the favor you’re not doing me, I read those links you posted trying to understand where you coming from. You realize those 40 Windows 10 bugs were all fixed in one release? How many of those one releases has Apple had in nthe last two months since iOS 13 was released? And the bugs that article highlights, not a single one would have affected me or the vast majority of casual users. Apple has issues in iO3 like the mail app has major flaws. And the podcast doesn’t auto-download podcasts any more. And it mysteriously deletes podcasts that you went and downloaded manually. Major swaths of casual iPhone users use those apps. And Windows 10 was Microsoft’s biggest release for 5 years, since Windows 8 was released. To Apple users, iOS 13 was just another release that Apple does every year. Well, until we found out how awful this release is anyway.

Was the point you are trying to make that Apple is on par with Microsoft? If you read those articles and compare it to what is commonly known about iOS 13, your evidence actually shows Apple is far behind Microsoft.

I'm demonstrating that you are wrong and this notion that you have that software is generally released bug-free is just BS. And those 40 bug fixes were in 2018 for version 1803. Windows 10 was released in 2015. There have been multiple releases of Windows 10 version before and after 1803, all with various bug fixes. Seriously. Look at all the KB articles in that link. Fixing bugs is a constant in operating systems, but when it comes to Apple, you pretend it is some unheard of embarrassment that never happens anywhere else.

Here is Windows 10 update history. The 43 bug fix update I posted was a separate build of fixes outside the normal release schedule. Why? Because it is absolutely normal for OS to have bugs that need to be fixed.

I'm making no judgments as to whether Windows or Mac are better as far as reliability. They both have bugs that have to be fixed and all of the bugs are not fixed in one patch. That is a concept that seems to allude you.

 

[levander]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.



I'm demonstrating that you are wrong and this notion that you have that software is generally released bug-free is just BS. And those 40 bug fixes were in 2018 for version 1803. Windows 10 was released in 2015. There have been multiple releases of Windows 10 version before and after 1803, all with various bug fixes. Seriously. Look at all the KB articles in that link. Fixing bugs is a constant in operating systems, but when it comes to Apple, you pretend it is some unheard of embarrassment that never happens anywhere else.

Here is Windows 10 update history. The 43 bug fix update I posted was a separate build of fixes outside the normal release schedule. Why? Because it is absolutely normal for OS to have bugs that need to be fixed.

I'm making no judgments as to whether Windows or Mac are better as far as reliability. They both have bugs that have to be fixed and all of the bugs are not fixed in one patch. That is a concept that seems to allude you.

You’re not even reading what you’re posting links to. You just see a headline “Windows 10” and updates and you make a religious assumption it’s equivalent to what’s going on with Apple and iOS13. As discussed previously, there are major casual user-facing issues still being fixed in iOS 13. That first link you so proudly posted, actually read the article. The first listed stuff, which in update read me files is usually the most important, is in developer tools. There’s stuff listed like “Addresses an issue with legacy Bluetooth® Basic Rate (BR) device inbound pairing”, which may not even affect users knowingly. It could just be an optimization. You read about this one, which was the third one listed “Addresses the redenomination of local currency that the Central Bank of Venezuela implemented to enter the Bolivar Soberano into circulation.” You read about that issue and there was (still is last I heard) an ongoing inflation crisis in Valenzuela that the government released a new money note whose denomination was much higher than had ever previously been released.”

Try actually reading what the person is saying that you’re talking to in the future.

 

[TopherMan12]

You’re not even reading what you’re posting links to. You just see a headline “Windows 10” and updates and you make a religious assumption it’s equivalent to what’s going on with Apple and iOS13. As discussed previously, there are major casual user-facing issues still being fixed in iOS 13. That first link you so proudly posted, actually read the article. The first listed stuff, which in update read me files is usually the most important, is in developer tools. There’s stuff listed like “Addresses an issue with legacy Bluetooth® Basic Rate (BR) device inbound pairing”, which may not even affect users knowingly. It could just be an optimization. You read about this one, which was the third one listed “Addresses the redenomination of local currency that the Central Bank of Venezuela implemented to enter the Bolivar Soberano into circulation.” You read about that issue and there was (still is last I heard) an ongoing inflation crisis in Valenzuela that the government released a new money note whose denomination was much higher than had ever previously been released.”

Try actually reading what the person is saying that you’re talking to in the future.

lol......I guess it is due to your religious beliefs that you think the Mail and Podcast issues are affecting all iOS users. Just not true. And the point that you are religiously and selectively ignoring is the sheer number of Windows updates that been deployed. You believe this is unique to iOS. Again, you are wrong.

But focus on the obscure all you want. There is a lot more in those updates than your religion allows you to believe. Hell, the entire 1909 update was nothing but bug fixes and yet it still introduced more bugs:

"One of the new features added to Windows 10 1909 is the integration of Windows Search into File Explorer. This allows users to enter a keyword in the search field and Windows 10 will automatically populate it with suggested files based on your search keyword.

Unfortunately, users have started experiencing bugs [1, 2, 3, 4] in this new search experience that briefly hangs File Explorer, does not allow you to right-click and paste into the search field, and causes the search field to become unresponsive so that you cannot type anything. "

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...kb4517245-update-causes-file-explorer-issues/

And there is more....

"BleepingComputer pins the boot, printing and Start Menu issues on Microsoft’s new KB4524147 cumulative update. The printing issue appears to be a repeat of the KB4522016 mess, while the Start Menu bug warns users: "Your Start menu isn't working. We'll try to fix it the next time you sign in" - and no, signing in again does not help. "

"“The reality is that this update is a hot mess of confusion,” concludes BleepingComputer. “The description of what it fixes was worded poorly, and nobody has any idea whether this is a cumulative update with a security fix or primarily a security update with non-security fixes.” "

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordon...rint-problem-upgrade-windows-10/#2d64f2ff50c1

Like iOS these problems do not affect all users. Stop being so religious.

And yes, I'm mocking your silly "religious" BS statements.

 

[C DM]

And the bugs that article highlights, not a single one would have affected me or the vast majority of casual users. Apple has issues in iO3 like the mail app has major flaws.

Realistically speaking that is pretty much the case with iOS 13 as well -- there are certainly issues but in many instances many of them are things that actually don't affect many users, and often many casual users. There are Mail flaws as you mentioned, but many aren't actually affected by them or don't even notice it really if they are affected by some of them.

None of this is to say there aren't issues or something like that, but simply to comment on that observation.

 

[levander]

Realistically speaking that is pretty much the case with iOS 13 as well -- there are certainly issues but in many instances many of them are things that actually don't affect many users, and often many casual users. There are Mail flaws as you mentioned, but many aren't actually affected by them or don't even notice it really if they are affected by some of them.

None of this is to say there aren't issues or something like that, but simply to comment on that observation.

I didn’t say the bugs still in iOS 13 affects all users. That’s part of Topherman’s religious mission to twist what I say to fit his doctrines which define apostasy. I think the phrase I used was “wide swaths of users”. I dropped the Mail app literally within five minutes of looking at it after my initial upgrade to iOS 13. And I believe there have been reports the Mail app has finally been largely fixed in recent week or two. But I’m not sure. The one that does affect me is the Podcast app not performing basic functionality like auto-downloading of podcasts that every podcast user I’ve ever talked to in person uses. Podcasts are not some niche use case anymore. I frequently talk to people in real life who listen to podcasts and we talk about which ones we like.

There’s nothing even close to that level of visibility in the Windows 10 updates Topherman linked to. There very well could be that level of problem in Windows software. But I’m reading where a guy’s trying to make an apples to apples case, and he’s just not making one.

I agree with you that most of the stuff in these updates coming out, the vast majority of users does not and should not care they need to be fixed. But the problem that I’m concerned about is the major stuff that affects so many users that still has not been fixed.