Seriously, F Apple lately

[TopherMan12]

I didn’t say the bugs still in iOS 13 affects all users. That’s part of Topherman’s religious mission to twist what I say to fit his doctrines which define apostasy. I think the phrase I used was “wide swaths of users”. I dropped the Mail app literally within five minutes of looking at it after my initial upgrade to iOS 13. And I believe there have been reports the Mail app has finally been largely fixed in recent week or two. But I’m not sure. The one that does affect me is the Podcast app not performing basic functionality like auto-downloading of podcasts that every podcast user I’ve ever talked to in person uses. Podcasts are not some niche use case anymore. I frequently talk to people in real life who listen to podcasts and we talk about which ones we like.

There’s nothing even close to that level of visibility in the Windows 10 updates Topherman linked to. There very well could be that level of problem in Windows software. But I’m reading where a guy’s trying to make an apples to apples case, and he’s just not making one.

I agree with you that most of the stuff in these updates coming out, the vast majority of users does not and should not care they need to be fixed. But the problem that I’m concerned about is the major stuff that affects so many users that still has not been fixed.

lol.....I'm just happy I made you realize that bugs in an OS are a normal thing. You started this nonsense yapping about how iOS users were "beta testors" because of the existence of bugs. During this conversation, you've transitioned from that idiotic stance to arguing about the severity and scope of the bugs that exist and have always existed in all operating systems. You've learned something. I'm very happy about that.

 

[Stella]

Apple expects you to go to the latest version of iOS and macOS. They make it free and easy.

This sounds like a you problem, OP.

It's an Apple problem. If Microsoft can keep backwards compatibility with Windows, so can Apple.

There's no reason why Apple should be breaking compatibility with 12 month old software.

BTW - there are plenty of valid reasons why someone cannot upgrade to the latest Mac OS.

 

[CYB3RBYTE]

I don't know if I'm lucky but so far iOS 13 has been totally bug free for me on my XS and iPad Pro. Catalina has been great as well on my MacBook Pro. Didn't even mess with my windows partition like I thought it would. I'm actually kind of glad they ditched 32-bit apps, time to make developers put out something that supports advanced features, so long as it's economically viable to them.

I lost CS6, but I gained affinity designer and affinity photo. Both of which I won't have to pay a monthly subscription for (looking at you adobe ).

 

[Szczelec33]

It still womt let me updwte my iMac from some yewrs back with snow leopard installed (I think 2009). It asks for my apple id and password but womt let me log into the app store to download the update.

 

[AustinIllini]

It's an Apple problem. If Microsoft can keep backwards compatibility with Windows, so can Apple.

There's no reason why Apple should be breaking compatibility with 12 month old software.

BTW - there are plenty of valid reasons why someone cannot upgrade to the latest Mac OS.

Microsoft has to keep backwards compatibility with Windows because of the various flavors and OEMs which use it. If they could, MSFT would wipe out all the 32 bit apps, they would. Problem is, the MRI machines that run Windows would break. so would all the embedded nodes.

Windows simply cannot dump 32 bit legacy apps.

It's not a Mac problem. It's a developer problem and a you problem. You put your workflow trust in the wrong applications and you are now paying for it.

 

[Spacetime Anomaly]

I've been using Macs for around 20 years and never have I seen them release so many products with hardware and software issues as I have in the past couple of years.

I'm not about to switch, because I think they can turn it around, but some weeks ago I installed Windows on a bootcamp partition for the first time and thought "You know what? This isn't half bad." That might damn Microsoft with faint praise, but for Apple to even provoke long-term users into looking at other options reveals a problem somewhere.

 

[Stella]

So basically your suggesting Apple is an unreliable platform, if I can’t be certain that Apple won’t make application breaking OS changes. What user and more critically, organization wants that kind of uncertainty?

Microsoft has to keep backwards compatibility with Windows because of the various flavors and OEMs which use it. If they could, MSFT would wipe out all the 32 bit apps, they would. Problem is, the MRI machines that run Windows would break. so would all the embedded nodes.

Windows simply cannot dump 32 bit legacy apps.

It's not a Mac problem. It's a developer problem and a you problem. You put your workflow trust in the wrong applications and you are now paying for it.

Apple could do a better job of ensuring backwards capability if it wanted to, since it controls hardware and the OS.

We aren’t just talking about 64 bit support here. Some issues are because Apple are quickly breaking support at the API level, such as functionality relating to iCloud. Software companies regularly ensure backwards capability in this regard and will deprecate functionality or API and keep item around for a period of time to ensure a smooth transition.

It’s an Apple choice to support older OS X - even ones just 12 months old. They just choose not to. Which is lazy. Like I said , it’s not always possible or desirable to use the latest Mac OS.

 

[AustinIllini]

So basically your suggesting Apple is an unreliable platform, if I can’t be certain that Apple won’t make application breaking OS changes. What user and more critically, organization wants that kind of uncertainty?



Apple could do a better job of ensuring backwards capability if it wanted to, since it controls hardware and the OS.

We aren’t just talking about 64 bit support here. Some issues are because Apple are quickly breaking support at the API level, such as functionality relating to iCloud. Software companies regularly ensure backwards capability in this regard.

It’s an Apple choice to support older OS X - even ones just 12 months old. They just choose not to. Which is lazy. Like I said , it’s not always possible or desirable to use the latest Mac OS.

Most of the crying on here is about the deprecation of 32 bit apps. That is somewhat understandable, but Apple has to draw the line at some point. Rosetta isn't a thing anymore and 32bit Apps are the next victim. Developers have had the better part of a decade to prepare for this.

As far as complaining about bugs goes, it's software. You're basically complaining about the rain being wet. I would expect the next release of macOS to be a stability release.

What I simply do not understand is the "f Apple" attitude. Nothing they have done this year has been actively user hostile.

 

[Stella]

Apple have warned about 32bit apps for a while now.. I'm not really concerned about that.

Most of the crying on here is about the deprecation of 32 bit apps. That is somewhat understandable, but Apple has to draw the line at some point. Rosetta isn't a thing anymore and 32bit Apps are the next victim. Developers have had the better part of a decade to prepare for this.

You haven't been reading my posts correctly because I haven't complained about bugs. But - As you bring up bugs:

Yes all Software has bugs. However, not all bugs are the same, bugs less critical can be lived with. Critical bugs is valid reason to not upgrade to the latest software, especially if said bugs are severe and result in data loss, for example, and Catalina did ship with such bugs.

As far as complaining about bugs goes, it's software. You're basically complaining about the rain being wet.

What I simply do not understand is the "f Apple" attitude. Nothing they have done this year has been actively user hostile.

Your dismissing people's complaints saying "it's the users problem <insert your reason here>".... with no acknowledgement that Apple *may* have contributed towards an issue... I'm not referring to 32/64 bit applications here. Even referring to bugs - you state "oh, all software ship with bugs, it's fine.. " - when in fact, no, severe, show stopping bugs are not fine...

 

[turbineseaplane]

but some weeks ago I installed Windows on a bootcamp partition for the first time and thought "You know what? This isn't half bad."

I have been dual booting for a while (for gaming) and that's largely my takeaway also.
It's not good that Apple is even letting this be "a thing" for longtime users and fans.

They are just a few more feature/usability/expandability lockdowns and years of bad releases from really losing a lot of people -- if they haven't left already..

 

[AidenShaw]

If they could, MSFT would wipe out all the 32 bit apps, they would.

This kind of ignores the simple fact that Windows is available in both x86 and x64 versions.

(The first dropdown gives the options of "x86" and "x64")​

I'm not sure that much effort would be saved by stripping x86 support from x64 versions of Windows, since all the x86 stuff would need to be built anyway for the x86 versions.

 

[2010mini]

IMHO Apple is desperately trying to keep up with security concerns. Hence “breaking” older sync functions between OSes. It’s annoying, but the tech world is currently in a race to stave off government sponsored hacking.

It’s not just Apple that is having such issues.

 

[levander]

I've been using Macs for around 20 years and never have I seen them release so many products with hardware and software issues as I have in the past couple of years.

I'm not about to switch, because I think they can turn it around, but some weeks ago I installed Windows on a bootcamp partition for the first time and thought "You know what? This isn't half bad." That might damn Microsoft with faint praise, but for Apple to even provoke long-term users into looking at other options reveals a problem somewhere.

I feel like Microsoft had a such a horrible reputation back in the 90’s, they really needed someone to take over as the dominant company in consumer computing. That way, all the people who hated Microsoft from back in the day could switch, get a breather and stop hating Microsoft so much. I am definitely one of these people.

But now that Apple is the one screwing up, a lot of us are once again going to become familiar with how much progress Microsoft has made when they’ve been out of the spotlight so much. The opportunity is swinging back Microsoft’s way again. This is all preidcition playing though. It’s just what I think is Gonna happen. There’s no way to prove this. Nor is there any way to prove me wrong short of waiting 5 years and if it doesn’t happen, people can come back in this thread and flame me to high heaven.

 

[AustinIllini]

I feel like Microsoft had a such a horrible reputation back in the 90’s, they really needed someone to take over as the dominant company in consumer computing. That way, all the people who hated Microsoft from back in the day could switch, get a breather and stop hating Microsoft so much. I am definitely one of these people.

But now that Apple is the one screwing up, a lot of us are once again going to become familiar with how much progress Microsoft has made when they’ve been out of the spotlight so much. The opportunity is swinging back Microsoft’s way again. This is all preidcition playing though. It’s just what I think is Gonna happen. There’s no way to prove this. Nor is there any way to prove me wrong short of waiting 5 years and if it doesn’t happen, people can come back in this thread and flame me to high heaven.

The Microsoft that is good now has nothing to do with Windows or hardware. Their services (office) and their cloud hosting division (Azure) are brilliant. They make decent hardware but the OS is just a blight on all their products. Windows is just a dumpster fire in every way, shape, and form.

It's not a matter of liking or hating Windows better. The justification to buy a Windows machine are

1. You want to buy a machine which is very inexpensive
2. You are an enterprise customer who wants a server

There is no good reason to waste a large sum of money on a Surface device at this point.

The best Microsoft Machine right now is a Mac running MSFT services. Period.

 

[faust]

The Microsoft that is good now has nothing to do with Windows or hardware. Their services (office) and their cloud hosting division (Azure) are brilliant. They make decent hardware but the OS is just a blight on all their products. Windows is just a dumpster fire in every way, shape, and form.

It's not a matter of liking or hating Windows better. The justification to buy a Windows machine are

1. You want to buy a machine which is very inexpensive
2. You are an enterprise customer who wants a server

There is no good reason to waste a large sum of money on a Surface device at this point.

The best Microsoft Machine right now is a Mac running MSFT services. Period.

Hahahahaha, lordy lord, you are addled with the Apple brainworms, my friend! The most long lived computer I ever had was a Gateway laptop that lasted from January 2009 until March 2016 when I gave it to a pal that was going through some housing insecurity at the time. More to the point? I've run Windows non-stop for the past decade and I've never once had an issue with it. I can install a new motherboard, processor, and RAM, hook up my drives to it, and after a few moments of automatic reconfiguration? I'm back to Windows without a problem in the world. It's just so odd for you to sum up the reasons for buying a Windows machine as "cheap computer" and "enterprise server".

Building a computer to run Windows or Linux is like playing with silicon building blocks. I can build a computer that beats the crap out of my 16" MBP for $1400-1800(if you include the necessary AppleCare) less than the cost of the 16" MBP. It's just silly to forget about the PC gaming industry, Linux community, and so much more. Apple products are highly overpriced, and they've resorted to making them increasingly less capable of being modified after sale by soldering the components onto the logic board to price gouge their customers even more.

It's all well and good to enjoy Apple products, but they're severely lacking in so many regards. It's like next year's iPhones are supposed to come with 6 GB of RAM? I wonder how the 2-4 GB models currently in usage will fare with future iOS updates as the development of iOS and applications shift to take advantage of the increase in available RAM.

Have you ever even built your own PC? Your comments about Windows are just huge indicators that you either haven't touched a Windows machine since the 90s or that you've had too much of the Apple Kool Aid.

 

[TopherMan12]

The Microsoft that is good now has nothing to do with Windows or hardware. Their services (office) and their cloud hosting division (Azure) are brilliant. They make decent hardware but the OS is just a blight on all their products. Windows is just a dumpster fire in every way, shape, and form.

It's not a matter of liking or hating Windows better. The justification to buy a Windows machine are

1. You want to buy a machine which is very inexpensive
2. You are an enterprise customer who wants a server

There is no good reason to waste a large sum of money on a Surface device at this point.

The best Microsoft Machine right now is a Mac running MSFT services. Period.

Well, Windows is still king for gaming and even boot camp on Mac doesn't hold up to a true PC gaming computer. Apple is making some progress with the support of eGPUs but getting that setup to work in bootcamp is nearly impossible. Wish it weren't true as I'd love to have an all Apple ecosystem, but for gamers, Mac just isn't there yet.

Building a computer to run Windows or Linux is like playing with silicon building blocks. I can build a computer that beats the crap out of my 16" MBP for $1400-1800(if you include the necessary AppleCare) less than the cost of the 16" MBP. It's just silly to forget about the PC gaming industry, Linux community, and so much more. Apple products are highly overpriced, and they've resorted to making them increasingly less capable of being modified after sale by soldering the components onto the logic board to price gouge their customers even more.

Why are you comparing the costs of building a PC to the price of a MacBook Pro? My Lenovo Yoga C940 has soldered on components (many Windows laptops do) and is in line in price with MacBook Pro. And I could build a PC that is far superior than my Yoga for the same amount of money. So what? PCs are cheaper to make and you can't build a laptop so why even compare?

It's all well and good to enjoy Apple products, but they're severely lacking in so many regards. It's like next year's iPhones are supposed to come with 6 GB of RAM? I wonder how the 2-4 GB models currently in usage will fare with future iOS updates as the development of iOS and applications shift to take advantage of the increase in available RAM.

iPhone will fare just as well as any product line that has received an upgrade in RAM. Are you under the impression that Android phones have had a constant amount of RAM all these years? Pretty sure Galaxy S10 has more RAM than S9. But if iPhone gets an upgrade......suddenly that's a problem?

 

[AustinIllini]

Hahahahaha, lordy lord, you are addled with the Apple brainworms, my friend! The most long lived computer I ever had was a Gateway laptop that lasted from January 2009 until March 2016 when I gave it to a pal that was going through some housing insecurity at the time. More to the point? I've run Windows non-stop for the past decade and I've never once had an issue with it. I can install a new motherboard, processor, and RAM, hook up my drives to it, and after a few moments of automatic reconfiguration? I'm back to Windows without a problem in the world. It's just so odd for you to sum up the reasons for buying a Windows machine as "cheap computer" and "enterprise server".

Building a computer to run Windows or Linux is like playing with silicon building blocks. I can build a computer that beats the crap out of my 16" MBP for $1400-1800(if you include the necessary AppleCare) less than the cost of the 16" MBP. It's just silly to forget about the PC gaming industry, Linux community, and so much more. Apple products are highly overpriced, and they've resorted to making them increasingly less capable of being modified after sale by soldering the components onto the logic board to price gouge their customers even more.

It's all well and good to enjoy Apple products, but they're severely lacking in so many regards. It's like next year's iPhones are supposed to come with 6 GB of RAM? I wonder how the 2-4 GB models currently in usage will fare with future iOS updates as the development of iOS and applications shift to take advantage of the increase in available RAM.

Have you ever even built your own PC? Your comments about Windows are just huge indicators that you either haven't touched a Windows machine since the 90s or that you've had too much of the Apple Kool Aid.

Real talk, I was responding to this comment

I feel like Microsoft had a such a horrible reputation back in the 90’s, they really needed someone to take over as the dominant company in consumer computing. That way, all the people who hated Microsoft from back in the day could switch, get a breather and stop hating Microsoft so much. I am definitely one of these people.

But now that Apple is the one screwing up, a lot of us are once again going to become familiar with how much progress Microsoft has made when they’ve been out of the spotlight so much. The opportunity is swinging back Microsoft’s way again. This is all preidcition playing though. It’s just what I think is Gonna happen. There’s no way to prove this. Nor is there any way to prove me wrong short of waiting 5 years and if it doesn’t happen, people can come back in this thread and flame me to high heaven.

None of it has to do with a gaming rig and gaming rigs are not justification for using windows. Windows on a gaming rig is like a cat converter on a car. You have to have it but you don't really want it. It's easily the weakest part of a gaming rig. Also, people were making gaming rigs when MSFT wasn't "cool"

But please continue with your "Windows doesn't suck that bad" and "I can waste a bunch of time making an ultimately crappy Windows machine and pretend it's worth anything" and my personal favorite "I have been living in a Windows cave for 10 years and iPhone doesn't have enough RAM"

 

[faust]

Yikes, the iPhone 6S Plus had a whopping 2 GB of RAM, and it's increased onwards from there until where it rests now at 4 GB of RAM. Saying that future iOS updates will be tailored to make full usage of the supposed 2 GB RAM increase to 6 GB RAM is not quite the same as using that same "lol Android has more memory" shtick. We both know Apple is doing a lot more with the RAM included in their iPhones simply from making sure all iOS apps and the iOS system are as streamlined as possible. But that's not to say current 4 GB models aren't going to be slapped silly into obsolescence when Apple starts tailoring to the increase in RAM in the coming year's model.

And yea, a gaming rig is a pretty good justification for using Windows. Look, I'll be as happy as the next gamer if Microsoft does something novel like completely base the next Windows OS around a Linux kernel and opens the floodgates to other distros having access to Microsoft's grip on the PC gaming market. Much has been done to make gaming on Linux a more compelling offer, but very often it is insufficient towards full native support. And as for that other guy, yea, you can get a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Extreme(Gen 2) with nigh the same specs as the 16" MBP for nearly half the price, but that includes a lot of user serviceability, along with an extra m.2 slot for later storage upgrades, and you can replace almost everything yourself. Lenovo is pretty great about that.

 

[TopherMan12]

And as for that other guy, yea, you can get a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Extreme(Gen 2) with nigh the same specs as the 16" MBP for nearly half the price, but that includes a lot of user serviceability, along with an extra m.2 slot for later storage upgrades, and you can replace almost everything yourself. Lenovo is pretty great about that.

That, at least, is a competent comparison rather than that "I can build a computer" nonsense. There are plenty of options out there and some of them offer upgrade-ability while others do not. Kind of weird that you just bought the 16" MPP and now are complaining about it as if you didn't have a choice at the same time as pointing out better options.

 

[AustinIllini]

Yikes, the iPhone 6S Plus had a whopping 2 GB of RAM, and it's increased onwards from there until where it rests now at 4 GB of RAM. Saying that future iOS updates will be tailored to make full usage of the supposed 2 GB RAM increase to 6 GB RAM is not quite the same as using that same "lol Android has more memory" shtick. We both know Apple is doing a lot more with the RAM included in their iPhones simply from making sure all iOS apps and the iOS system are as streamlined as possible. But that's not to say current 4 GB models aren't going to be slapped silly into obsolescence when Apple starts tailoring to the increase in RAM in the coming year's model.

And yea, a gaming rig is a pretty good justification for using Windows. Look, I'll be as happy as the next gamer if Microsoft does something novel like completely base the next Windows OS around a Linux kernel and opens the floodgates to other distros having access to Microsoft's grip on the PC gaming market. Much has been done to make gaming on Linux a more compelling offer, but very often it is insufficient towards full native support. And as for that other guy, yea, you can get a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Extreme(Gen 2) with nigh the same specs as the 16" MBP for nearly half the price, but that includes a lot of user serviceability, along with an extra m.2 slot for later storage upgrades, and you can replace almost everything yourself. Lenovo is pretty great about that.

This is just aimless whining now. We get it, you can get a worse laptop than a 16" MBP for half the price.

 

[iAssimilated]

My work is primarily a Lenovo shop and have seen their quality first hand. For the people who use them they are okay, but their upgradability is crap compared to the old ThinkPads IBM use to make. There is nothing special about them. Add the the fact they use Windows I would not touch them with a ten foot pole. Luckily my work allows me to use an old Mac Pro 5,1 I saved from being recycled.

Before you state that is just an opinion about Lenovo products, let me tell you I am currently the top level of support for our IT department. BTW, the best "Lenovo" model they ever made was the T430 (durable and easily upgradable).

 

[faust]

This is just aimless whining now. We get it, you can get a worse laptop than a 16" MBP for half the price.

I just wish we could engage in good faith. I use an iPhone & Macbook Pro 16", so it's not like I've been on this forum since 2007 just to evangelize the glory of Microsoft Windows 10, but this foaming at the mouth inability to see there are plenty of great alternatives to Apple products is absurd and detestable.

 

[iAssimilated]

... there are plenty of great alternatives to Apple products ...

There I can agree with you. If I wasn't entrenched in the Apple ecosystem (primarily driven by the iPhone) I would be looking at computers from System76 (https://system76.com) since my custom PC building days are over.

As for phones though, I disagree. I loath Android, thus I could never use a phone that came with it. I do not judge people who do like Android, its just not for me.

 

[AidenShaw]

BTW, the best "Lenovo" model they ever made was the T430 (durable and easily upgradable).

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Early this year I got a T480s to replace a stolen T440s.

I got the IT standard touch screen quad core i7-8650U version, replaced the 256 GB SSD with a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe drive, added a Crucial 16 GiB SO-DIMM to get to 24 GiB, and an internal 4G LTE modem with GPS.

That seems reasonably upgradeable to me.

 

[Timothy Leo Crowley]

Someone needs a snickers bar.