Sluggish Safari on new MBP 16

[Super Spartan]

Actually its the whole damn machine that is sluggish. Safari/ chrome and Microsoft Excel all hang and stutters. Im starting to think its related to Catalina

It IS Catalina 100%. I had an MBP Pro 15 (late 2019) last month and when I downgraded from Catalina to Mojave I could swear I bought a new laptop! Everything was super fast. With Catalina for example, when you go to settings > Privacy and click on the lock at the bottom left to unlock the options, it takes a good 5 seconds before you are able to scan your fingerprint or enter your password, in Mojave it's instant! That's just one example, I could go on forever. I hope Catalina 10.15.2 fixes this sluggish performance.
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Hi, I am facing the almost exact same issue. Screen freezes once in a while. Since I use Chrome most of the time, to me it's Chrome that's laggy.

void IOAccelFenceMachine::fence_timeout(IOTimerEventSource *): IntelAccelerator prodding blockFenceInterrupt

It's been few days since I got the laptop, and this issue is constant. I am going to Apple Store and ask for a replacement, or refund if they refuse to replace it.

I think switching to dedicated GPU should resolve the issue. But that's not the point! I am not going change my behavior just because some faulty hardware issue (purely guessing, but very likely).

To OP. Switching to dedicated GPU will consume battery faster, but gives you an even better experience. Nothing else should be affected. However, the feeling that something is wrong and you need to find a workaround sounds annoying to me. So I am going to get a replacement.

Getting a replacement won't change a thing, it's the darn Catalina that's the issue here.

 

[Jay Bello]

It IS Catalina 100%. I had an MBP Pro 15 (late 2019) last month and when I downgraded from Catalina to Mojave I could swear I bought a new laptop! Everything was super fast. With Catalina for example, when you go to settings > Privacy and click on the lock at the bottom left to unlock the options, it takes a good 5 seconds before you are able to scan your fingerprint or enter your password, in Mojave it's instant! That's just one example, I could go on forever. I hope Catalina 10.15.2 fixes this sluggish performance.
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Getting a replacement won't change a thing, it's the darn Catalina that's the issue here.

I see your point. But I had two broken laptop (One ThinkPad one Dell), both were hardware issues. Based on my past unlucky level, I am going to assume that it's me being unlucky rather than the software. Will update the thread once I got a new one.

 

[Super Spartan]

I see your point. But I had two broken laptop (One ThinkPad one Dell), both were hardware issues. Based on my past unlucky level, I am going to assume that it's me being unlucky rather than the software. Will update the thread once I got a new one.

You could try but what I'm saying is all of us are facing this not just you.

 

[Jay Bello]

You could try but what I'm saying is all of us are facing this not just you.

Is that the case?! If so that's actually a good news to me... As I don't really want to spend time to get my Macbook replaced.

Anyway, going to get it replaced, and provide a data point to those who are facing the same issue.

 

[junkw]

you should open a ticket to have it fixed
https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/

 

[Jay Bello]

Updates:

I talked to Apple support, the person asked me to reset SMC and NVRAM. But that has nothing to do with this integrated graphics card. Also the person said no similar issue happened to others recently. Therefore I will get a replacement for sure within next three days.

Again, switching to high performance mode (use only AMD GPU) seems to solve the issue. But then that means the integrated GPU is not working! I am not okay with that. So replacement it is.

If the new replacement also has the same issue. I might keep it. Or I might ask for refund. Or maybe I will get a new one in future.


Another Update:
I think this is just like what I am facing...
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...litch-freeze-can-someone-please-test.2129323/
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8465185
With all info combined. I had a feeling that this is a returned Macbook (which is fine for me), but person who reset it forgot to run those commands, which result in this error. I am going to follow the instruction and see if it works.
Updated, nope, it did not work for me... Looks like replacement is the solution.

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

Let me know if the replacement laptop has the same issues. Im probably gonna do the same.

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

After I tried my friends MacBook who also have Catalina with no problems, I'm hopeful a replacement will fix this issue.

 

[Jay Bello]

Update.

I went to Apple Store, they gave me a new MacBook. Same issue! So I refunded.

Based on what I find on internet and digging yesterday, here are some facts, observations, and hypothesis.

Facts:
1. For MacBook 16 in. MacBook comes with an integrated GPU and a dedicated AMD GPU. Integrated GPU is shipped with intel CPU, it consumes less battery, and it's not very performant. AMD GPU is an independent hardware, it consumes more battery, and it's very performant.
2. Unless you disabled the energy savor, or connected to external monitor, MacOS will switch between integrated GPU and dedicated AMD GPU. So it can balance the power consumption & performance.
3. You can check whether Mac is using integrated GPU or AMD GPU from Activity Monitory -> Energy -> Graphics Card. If it's integrated, it's using the integrated GPU. If it's High Perf, it's using AMD GPU.

Observations:
0. I tried reset SMC, NVRAM, & that fancy EPID trick, non of them helps.
1. When I disable the energy savor, everything is fine!
2. When I go to certain websites that consume some GPU, once in a while I see a frozen screen or a small delay on the display.
3. I tried with two MacBook 16 in, 32GB RAM, 2 T Disk. Both are facing the same issue.
4. When I go to Console app, filter by fault and keyword "kernel", I can see void IOAccelBlockFenceMachine::block_fence_timeout(IOTimerEventSource *): prodding blockFenceInterrupt
5. #4 observation only happen when I am using integrated GPU
6. People have been facing this issue wayyyyy back, some of them reported that revert the system resolves the issue.
7. I think I tested the MacBooks in store, and they seems fine???!?!!! (not tested for a long time, so cannot confirm)

Hypothesis:
1. This is a hardware issue. I know this is unlikely to happen unless I am really really unlucky, that both laptop are facing the same hardware issue. But it's possible! Maybe in future I will get a new Mac and see if it's working or not....
2. This is a software issue. This is more likely to happen, as the chance of me getting to broken MacBook is very low. While I got the new replaced MacBook, I saw an update available, and I was thinking that might fix the issue. But that did not... So maybe Apple will fix it in future?
3. This might be a software issue that happens while switching from integrated GPU to AMD GPU.
4. This is manual issue. What I got are both returned laptops. And because Apple employee failed to execute some command, it result in this lagging issue... I think this sounds really wired, but it's the most reasonable one that I can think off.

I am going to customize a new MacBook, this time with some wired configuration, so the chance of me getting a returned MacBook is low...

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After I tried my friends MacBook who also have Catalina with no problems, I'm hopeful a replacement will fix this issue.

Can you please check if your friend is starting with integrated GPU?

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

He has automatic switching on and is not facing these issues. If its software related, why isnt the Net loaded with this issue for this laptop ? Its fairly easy to notice that the IO is not buttery smooth. Not a single reviewer on YouTube etc is experiencing or been aware of the issue either.
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Do your store have any demo units you can try and replicate the issue on ?

 

[Jay Bello]

He has automatic switching on and is not facing these issues. If its software related, why isnt the Net loaded with this issue for this laptop ? Its fairly easy to notice that the IO is not buttery smooth. Not a single reviewer on YouTube etc is experiencing or been aware of the issue either.
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Do your store have any demo units you can try and replicate the issue on ?

Currently I do not have any laptop anymore.
I have hypothesis, not conclusion.
So if it's a hardware issue, then I am just being super unlucky...

If it's a software issue, I think it might be that Youtube reviewers simple test the GPU, which will result in using AMD GPU.

Both are possible, I want to believe that it's me being unlucky, that way I can get a new one... But based on my experience, I think I will wait for a while.

To reproduce the issue, first make sure you are on integrated GPU, then go to these three websites using Chrome, and keeps doing circling with your trackpad...
https://www.bloomberg.com/europe
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7137846/
https://www.apple.com/apple-events/june-2018/

Please note once in a while your laptop will be switched to use AMD GPU, in that case simply remove tabs, then wait a while until it's back to integrated GPU. Then try again.

If possible, please let me know if your friend's MacBook face the same issue or not.
And if you get a replaced MacBook, please let me know if that works fine or not, thank you!

 

[Super Spartan]

Update.

I went to Apple Store, they gave me a new MacBook. Same issue! So I refunded.

Based on what I find on internet and digging yesterday, here are some facts, observations, and hypothesis.

Facts:
1. For MacBook 16 in. MacBook comes with an integrated GPU and a dedicated AMD GPU. Integrated GPU is shipped with intel CPU, it consumes less battery, and it's not very performant. AMD GPU is an independent hardware, it consumes more battery, and it's very performant.
2. Unless you disabled the energy savor, or connected to external monitor, MacOS will switch between integrated GPU and dedicated AMD GPU. So it can balance the power consumption & performance.
3. You can check whether Mac is using integrated GPU or AMD GPU from Activity Monitory -> Energy -> Graphics Card. If it's integrated, it's using the integrated GPU. If it's High Perf, it's using AMD GPU.

Observations:
0. I tried reset SMC, NVRAM, & that fancy EPID trick, non of them helps.
1. When I disable the energy savor, everything is fine!
2. When I go to certain websites that consume some GPU, once in a while I see a frozen screen or a small delay on the display.
3. I tried with two MacBook 16 in, 32GB RAM, 2 T Disk. Both are facing the same issue.
4. When I go to Console app, filter by fault and keyword "kernel", I can see void IOAccelBlockFenceMachine::block_fence_timeout(IOTimerEventSource *): prodding blockFenceInterrupt
5. #4 observation only happen when I am using integrated GPU
6. People have been facing this issue wayyyyy back, some of them reported that revert the system resolves the issue.

Hypothesis:
1. This is a hardware issue. I know this is unlikely to happen unless I am really really unlucky, that both laptop are facing the same hardware issue. But it's possible! Maybe in future I will get a new Mac and see if it's working or not....
2. This is a software issue. This is more likely to happen, as the chance of me getting to broken MacBook is very low. While I got the new replaced MacBook, I saw an update available, and I was thinking that might fix the issue. But that did not... So maybe Apple will fix it in future?
3. This might be a software issue that happens while switching from integrated GPU to AMD GPU.

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Can you please check if your friend is starting with integrated GPU?

I just checked my activity monitor and next to Safari, it says Graphics Card = No yet I don't have any stuttering or sluggish performance. Running Catalina 10.15.1 with the supplemental update which was offered to me as soon as I setup my MBP 16

I went to the sites you mentioned and there is 0 issues with them as well. I did this on Safari as that's the only browser I am using on my laptop and have no other browser installed.

 

[nikster0029]

Recent update on my MacBook and iMac Pro make safari unusable for me. So slow

 

[kfbr392]

I’ve been having the same issue and would like to point out that after switching energy saver off (so it always uses AMD GPU), I still have freezing in apps like GitHub Desktop when clicking actions. That could be unrelated I suppose.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...sues-video-while-typing.2213028/post-28035371

 

[MrGunnyPT]

This has been a bug which has been around for ages ever since the Retina MacBooks got introduced, it's due to the Intel GPU.

Like I stated below what I recommend is having an app to switch dGPU if you find any sluggish during your workflow.

I know it's annoying and all but that's really the only fix we have for the moment.

I’ve been having the same issue and would like to point out that after switching energy saver off (so it always uses AMD GPU), I still have freezing in apps like GitHub Desktop when clicking actions. That could be unrelated I suppose.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...sues-video-while-typing.2213028/post-28035371

You can use an app like gSwitch to change the GPU depending on your task.
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Hi, I am facing the almost exact same issue. Screen freezes once in a while. Since I use Chrome most of the time, to me it's Chrome that's laggy.

void IOAccelFenceMachine::fence_timeout(IOTimerEventSource *): IntelAccelerator prodding blockFenceInterrupt

It's been few days since I got the laptop, and this issue is constant. I am going to Apple Store and ask for a replacement, or refund if they refuse to replace it.

I think switching to dedicated GPU should resolve the issue. But that's not the point! I am not going change my behavior just because some faulty hardware issue (purely guessing, but very likely).

To OP. Switching to dedicated GPU will consume battery faster, but gives you an even better experience. Nothing else should be affected. However, the feeling that something is wrong and you need to find a workaround sounds annoying to me. So I am going to get a replacement.

What about those without a dGPU who have been suffering with this for more than 3 years now? I assume the iGPU is down clocking itself or something.

 

[Jay Bello]

This has been a bug which has been around for ages ever since the Retina MacBooks got introduced, it's due to the Intel GPU.

Like I stated below what I recommend is having an app to switch dGPU if you find any sluggish during your workflow.

I know it's annoying and all but that's really the only fix we have for the moment.



You can use an app like gSwitch to change the GPU depending on your task.
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What about those without a dGPU who have been suffering with this for more than 3 years now? I assume the iGPU is down clocking itself or something.

Not exactly sure for those people. For me it's very likely to be integrated GPU issue or switching from integrated to d GPU. I only have observations and hypothesis for my model.

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

If this is a bug, why doesnt it happend to everyone ? And why isnt there more talk about it ? For me it is not acceptable at all. Apple should Prioritize this asap.

 

[Jay Bello]

If this is a bug, why doesnt it happend to everyone ? And why isnt there more talk about it ? For me it is not acceptable at all. Apple should Prioritize this asap.

You are right, on the other hand it should not be a software bug either...

But I tested with two laptop, both "brand new" (unless someone also returned them). Which is why I think hardware issue is unlikely...

However, if you get a new one or tested with your friends one, and found that everything works fine... Then I think it's hardware issue...

Check my previous post, I added another hypothesis.
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If this is a bug, why doesnt it happend to everyone ? And why isnt there more talk about it ? For me it is not acceptable at all. Apple should Prioritize this asap.

You are right, on the other hand it should not be a software bug either...

But I tested with two laptop, both "brand new" (unless someone also returned them). Which is why I think hardwar
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If this is a bug, why doesnt it happend to everyone ? And why isnt there more talk about it ? For me it is not acceptable at all. Apple should Prioritize this asap.

You are right, on the other hand it should not be a software bug either...

But I tested with two laptop, both "brand new" (unless someone also returned them). Which is why I think it's hardware issue.

Actually now I have a new hypothesis: This is manual issue. What I got are both returned laptops. And because Apple employee failed to execute some command, it result in this lagging issue... I think this sounds really wired, but it's the most reasonable one that I can think off.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I still think it's a software issue some kind of driver or behaviour from the Intel iGPU.

You want the best example? Open Reddit or Youtube using iGPU and it will jitter all over the place, now open it again with any dGPU or eGPU and it won't.

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

Actually now I have a new hypothesis: This is manual issue. What I got are both returned laptops. And because Apple employee failed to execute some command, it result in this lagging issue... I think this sounds really wired, but it's the most reasonable one that I can think off.

I just tested your 3 sites on Chrome and Safari and I didn't get the micro stutter/jitter.

Its hard for me to replicate it, because its more random when it happens, and it doesn't happened all the time on the same site. However it happens once every 1-2 minutes
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I still think it's a software issue some kind of driver or behaviour from the Intel iGPU.

You want the best example? Open Reddit or Youtube using iGPU and it will jitter all over the place, now open it again with any dGPU or eGPU and it won't.

Funny enough Reddit and Youtube work pretty good here

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

Update: i just came from my local store. There i tested every MacBook demo unit they had including mb pro 15, 16 air and 12 for a long time and they all had the same issue. I then went to me friend and tested his again and yeah now i found the issue on his as well. I guess i didnt test his thoroughly enough the first time.

So for me this is enough evidence that this is indeed a software issue that has to be fixed asap. Im amazed that other people hasnt jumped on this yet.
The last year ive been using the Razer Blade 15 with Windows 10 and web browsing, ExCeL and general UI usage has always been buttery smooth. Maybe this is why im more prone to detect it than others ?

 

[Jay Bello]

Update: i just came from my local store. There i tested every MacBook demo unit they had including mb pro 15, 16 air and 12 for a long time and they all had the same issue. I then went to me friend and tested his again and yeah now i found the issue on his as well. I guess i didnt test his thoroughly enough the first time.

So for me this is enough evidence that this is indeed a software issue that has to be fixed asap. Im amazed that other people hasnt jumped on this yet.
The last year ive been using the Razer Blade 15 with Windows 10 and web browsing, ExCeL and general UI usage has always been buttery smooth. Maybe this is why im more prone to detect it than others ?

Good to know that it's likely to be a software issue!

Guess we are just more perceivable

And I totally agree that it's interesting that people didn't realize the issue. I think some portion of them might just simple ignored it as to me it's happen only for a short duration. Or maybe they are really pro so they are using external monitor all the time (then MacBook has to use d GPU)

 

[junkw]

beta 4 is out

 

[Espen Thuen Hansen]

Any improvement ? Beta 3 didn't fix it.

 

[SpitUK]

What level of scaling do you have in display settings? I have found that can have an impact.