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sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
Also running into this issue. If I restart my computer, the issue goes away for a few hours or so. And then it is back. I get this stuttering pretty much everywhere - not just Safari. Even scrolling thru the console.app stutters! I can tell that when I am typing fast, the input pauses for half a second as well due to this issue. WTF.

In console, I see errors like:

Couldn't read values in CFPrefsPlistSource<0x7f8d60e00740> (Domain: kCFPreferencesAnyApplication, User: kCFPreferencesCurrentUser, ByHost: No, Container: (null), Contents Need Refresh: Yes): accessing preferences outside an application's container requires user-preference-read or file-read-data sandbox access

Couldn't read values in CFPrefsPlistSource<0x7f8d643003d0> (Domain: kCFPreferencesAnyApplication, User: kCFPreferencesAnyUser, ByHost: Yes, Container: (null), Contents Need Refresh: Yes): accessing preferences outside an application's container requires user-preference-read or file-read-data sandbox access
[automerge]1575717162[/automerge]
Are you running BTT (BetterTouchTool)? I was, and as soon as I quit BTT, everything became very smooth! It's like magic.

I then launched BTT and everything is still fine. I wonder if there is an issue with BTT after it runs for a long time? (memory leak maybe?)
 

Espen Thuen Hansen

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 27, 2019
53
18
Nope i don't run that so its probably not the same issue. Im pretty sure this issue is related to Catalina and is happening on pretty much every MacBook.

Ironically enough Microsoft Edge for Mac doesn't have this issues. Its runs so much better.
 
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sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
Nope i don't run that so its probably not the same issue. Im pretty sure this issue is related to Catalina and is happening on pretty much every MacBook.

Ironically enough Microsoft Edge for Mac doesn't have this issues. Its runs so much better.
I guess what I am saying is that this may be related to some software you are running. For me, the issue hasnt returned ever since. It may have been a coincidence wrt BTT, so I will keep watching too.

Also in my case the stutter is seen everywhere - in all apps, incl. scrolling in console.app, Microsoft Edge, Safari, XCode, etc. So may be it is 2 different (but similar) issues.
 

Espen Thuen Hansen

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 27, 2019
53
18
I Wish that was true, but unfortunatly ive tried a clean Install with no further installations without improvement. I Also tested 5 other units which had the same problem
 
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thetechhimself

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2015
18
3
I just bought the new MacBook Pro 16 base model with latest version of Catalina and im having an issue with Safari. When i scroll some Pages it stutters from time to time. A problem i never has with my 2017 MBP 13. Chrome is working flawlessly. When i compare CPU usage on both browsers i notise that Safari often spikes in the 100-130% range, while Chrome never does this.

ive tried to delete cache and logs. I also tried to make a new admin user without any luck.
So far browsing with Safari on the Macbook Pro 16 is simular to browsing on an old 2012 MBP. It works good most of the time with the occational stutter, which i know it shouldnt be like.

Anyone having similar issues or suggestions ?

You're dealing with Intel/Apple woes... There isn't a 15" Model Macbook with a high power integrated graphics anymore. And, Intel drivers I've noted, appear to be better optimized for 2D acceleration for say Safari, than AMD/Nvidia drivers. This was a large reason I returned the 2016 MBPR 15" in 2017; it was slower browsing the internet than my 2014 model (2013-2015 MBPR's have Crystalwell on the 15" model).

Turning on discrete graphics by disabling automatic graphics switching is one option, but, AMD/Nvidia drivers once again don't have the finesse. Now, I suspect the newer AMDs in the 2019 models are probably up to the task vs the slow AMD 555 in the 2016 I had, regardless of how well the driver is written for it.

Normally I'd say wait for next year's model, but, per leaked Intel Roadmap, the Comet Lake suitable for 16" MBPR's will be the SAME iGPU, just 10 cores instead of 8 presently, so no help waiting.

If, you want faster performance without sucking up your battery, any of the recent 13" models will have both the more powerful iGPUs, and the latest ones have Quad core processors. That's the one thing the newer Comet Lake's and Ice Lake's appropriate for the 13" Macbook Pro's will have, more powerful iGPU, and decent CPU core performance.

Morale? Either turn on your AMD GPU, which will drain your battery, put up with it, get an older 15" MBPR with Crystalwell aka Iris Pro (2013-2015), get a 13" which still has Iris Pro graphics. There is no setting you can flip to make your 630 UHD catchup to an Iris Pro; the latter simply has double or more the performance and Intel won't make a HQ processor with Iris Pro till they hit 10nm, which isn't projected till 2022 per the leaked roadmap. Upcoming rumored Arm-based Macs are another answer, except, those will be RISC chips meaning cross compatibility with many 3rd party Apps and other operating systems will be an issue in the same way it was back in the Rosetta days...

I'd either go back to a newer more powerful 13" or put up with it / turn on discrete graphics as needed via the energy control panel.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/UHD-Graphics-630-vs-Iris-Plus-Graphics-655_8126_8828.247598.0.html

Note, the Iris Pro 655 has double the GPU core count, and a faster clock. This, is why it's not your imagination that the 13" is faster than the 15" for Safari and other 2D apps without enabling the discrete graphics (which bleeds your battery).
 
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sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
Nope i don't run that so its probably not the same issue. Im pretty sure this issue is related to Catalina and is happening on pretty much every MacBook.

Ironically enough Microsoft Edge for Mac doesn't have this issues. Its runs so much better.
re: Edge running better than Safari --

Note that Edge will immediately and always enable the dedicated graphics, whereas Safari will use the integrated graphics until it really really needs the dedicated graphics. You can see this for yourself from the Activity Manager or via iStat Menus (easier). This may be why Edge is smoother than Safari.

You can see what happens if you disable Hardware Acceleration in Edge. Settings->Search for "Hardware" and disable it. Now see if Edge is also exhibiting the same issue as Safari.
 

Espen Thuen Hansen

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 27, 2019
53
18
You're dealing with Intel/Apple woes... There isn't a 15" Model Macbook with a high power integrated graphics anymore. And, Intel drivers I've noted, appear to be better optimized for 2D acceleration for say Safari, than AMD/Nvidia drivers. This was a large reason I returned the 2016 MBPR 15" in 2017; it was slower browsing the internet than my 2014 model (2013-2015 MBPR's have Crystalwell on the 15" model).

Turning on discrete graphics by disabling automatic graphics switching is one option, but, AMD/Nvidia drivers once again don't have the finesse. Now, I suspect the newer AMDs in the 2019 models are probably up to the task vs the slow AMD 555 in the 2016 I had, regardless of how well the driver is written for it.

Normally I'd say wait for next year's model, but, per leaked Intel Roadmap, the Comet Lake suitable for 16" MBPR's will be the SAME iGPU, just 10 cores instead of 8 presently, so no help waiting.

If, you want faster performance without sucking up your battery, any of the recent 13" models will have both the more powerful iGPUs, and the latest ones have Quad core processors. That's the one thing the newer Comet Lake's and Ice Lake's appropriate for the 13" Macbook Pro's will have, more powerful iGPU, and decent CPU core performance.

Morale? Either turn on your AMD GPU, which will drain your battery, put up with it, get an older 15" MBPR with Crystalwell aka Iris Pro (2013-2015), get a 13" which still has Iris Pro graphics. There is no setting you can flip to make your 630 UHD catchup to an Iris Pro; the latter simply has double or more the performance and Intel won't make a HQ processor with Iris Pro till they hit 10nm, which isn't projected till 2022 per the leaked roadmap. Upcoming rumored Arm-based Macs are another answer, except, those will be RISC chips meaning cross compatibility with many 3rd party Apps and other operating systems will be an issue in the same way it was back in the Rosetta days...

I'd either go back to a newer more powerful 13" or put up with it / turn on discrete graphics as needed via the energy control panel.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/UHD-Graphics-630-vs-Iris-Plus-Graphics-655_8126_8828.247598.0.html

Note, the Iris Pro 655 has double the GPU core count, and a faster clock. This, is why it's not your imagination that the 13" is faster than the 15" for Safari and other 2D apps without enabling the discrete graphics (which bleeds your battery).


Some great info there :) Given Web browsing etc has been much smoother on Windows lately, does this mean that Intel drivers are better optimized for Win ? If yes couldnt this soon be improved for mac ? [automerge]1575833898[/automerge]
re: Edge running better than Safari --

Note that Edge will immediately and always enable the dedicated graphics, whereas Safari will use the integrated graphics until it really really needs the dedicated graphics. You can see this for yourself from the Activity Manager or via iStat Menus (easier). This may be why Edge is smoother than Safari.

You can see what happens if you disable Hardware Acceleration in Edge. Settings->Search for "Hardware" and disable it. Now see if Edge is also exhibiting the same issue as Safari.

Yeah the first thing i did was to turn of hardware acceleration and its still runs better than Safari. :/
 
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Espen Thuen Hansen

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 27, 2019
53
18
Its happening with Chrome as well, so its probably an issue with the Intel Gpu. Im guessing its either
to slow, or the drivers is to poorly optimized.
 

elysium7

macrumors newbie
Dec 8, 2019
1
0
I have this stuttering issue as well. MBP is literally unusable (stuttering everywhere across all apps) unless I disable automatic graphics switching.

Win 10 on bootcamp runs flawlessly though, without any tweaking.
 

sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
I have this stuttering issue as well. MBP is literally unusable (stuttering everywhere across all apps) unless I disable automatic graphics switching.

Win 10 on bootcamp runs flawlessly though, without any tweaking.
Get gSwitch app and try to force it to always be in Dedicated.

edit: Accidentally said Integrated, when I meant Dedicated. Thanks OP for catching it.
 
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Adam Lambert

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2019
6
2
United Kingdom
I have signed up to mac rumors specifically for this issue as I am finding it so frustrating!

I have had my MacBook Pro 16 for about a month now. As far as I know, I have only experienced it since today (using for for a good 8 hours a day on average). I am quite perceptible to things like this but do also use my MacBook on an external screen for about 90% of the time.

However, the lag is so bad that I would have thought I noticed it easily when using it with the main screen for that 10%. For example, I can type out at least 2 - 3 words without anything showing on the screen. It happens across every part of the computer; Chrome, Safari, Settings, Menus...

As with the previous thread, I have tried turning off Automatic Graphics switching. I have also tried turning off hardware acceleration in chrome (has been off since day 1 anyway) but nothing helps.

I find the glitch happens about every 10 - 20 seconds and can "freeze" for something close to just under 1 second.

I'll be back home in a few days so will try again with the external monitor to see if the same issue persists there too.
 
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MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
1,313
804
I have signed up to mac rumors specifically for this issue as I am finding it so frustrating!

I have had my MacBook Pro 16 for about a month now. As far as I know, I have only experienced it since today (using for for a good 8 hours a day on average). I am quite perceptible to things like this but do also use my MacBook on an external screen for about 90% of the time.

However, the lag is so bad that I would have thought I noticed it easily when using it with the main screen for that 10%. For example, I can type out at least 2 - 3 words without anything showing on the screen. It happens across every part of the computer; Chrome, Safari, Settings, Menus...

As with the previous thread, I have tried turning off Automatic Graphics switching. I have also tried turning off hardware acceleration in chrome (has been off since day 1 anyway) but nothing helps.

I find the glitch happens about every 10 - 20 seconds and can "freeze" for something close to just under 1 second.

I'll be back home in a few days so will try again with the external monitor to see if the same issue persists there too.

Have you tried using your dGPU only? It's what I have been doing for the past couple of days
 

Adam Lambert

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2019
6
2
United Kingdom
Have you tried using your dGPU only? It's what I have been doing for the past couple of days

When you say dGPU, do you mean turning off automatic graphics switching? Or do I need to install something else to achieve this?

If you do just mean turning off the automatic graphics switching then I tried this but it makes no difference.
 
Last edited:

Adam Lambert

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2019
6
2
United Kingdom
I think more people are likely to notice this as a video stutter issue than typing or scrolling.

My video stutters from a fraction of a second up to around 1 second. Tested in safari, chrome and on a different user account.

Also switched off automatic graphics switching and issue persists.

Strangely, I have only noticed it today for the first time but it happens all the time so I am sure I would have noticed it before. Only installed a couple of chrome extensions since yesterday though... removed them now but lag is still there.

edit: Was Supposed to add this to another thread. Not sure what happened there!
 

philipmuller97

macrumors newbie
Dec 8, 2019
4
3
Just wanted to chime in and report that I'm experiencing similar issues on my MBP 16" as well. Microstutters are not super common, but present enough to be annoying. I've noticed them everywhere pretty much, but Safari seems to be worse than other apps. The best way to replicate that I found is to open Safari (dark mode) without loading any page (bookmarks view), put it in fullscreen and switch from desktop to safari with the trackpad gesture. It doesn't always happen, but often enough.
Coming from a mid 2012 MacBook Air, this is quite disappointing. My old air did lag sometimes, sure, but it was a "clear" lag, a "fair" lag, in the sense that it felt like a lag, not like stuttering. I was fine with that, because I recognised it as a lag. The experience on this machine on the other hand just seems really jagged sometimes. I'm sorry if it sounds weird, but it is the best way I found to describe it.
I don't know what to do exactly either. If it's a hardware issue, then sure, I want my unit replaced, but that might not be that easy to do since I don't have an Apple Store nearby... Not to mention the fact that I need a laptop to carry to University, and my old Air died. I cannot exactly afford to go weeks without a computer. The new one might be affected with the exact same issue, or even different issues altogether. I have a slight coil whine that I can hear from time to time as well, and display ghosting (although both of these I can live with, the stuttering is the annoying part).

I'm really disappointed, cause I spent a lot of money on this device, and really torn as well, 'cause I have no idea how to proceed. If you have any advice, I'd love to hear it.
 
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Adam Lambert

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2019
6
2
United Kingdom
Does everyone who is having these micro-stutter issues also see:

- Keyboard lag: Type a word and wait for it to appear.
- Video lag/stutter: For example, youtube playing a video through chrome/safari with frequent 0.5 - 1 second jumps that are unrelated to any buffering issues.
 

philipmuller97

macrumors newbie
Dec 8, 2019
4
3
Does everyone who is having these micro-stutter issues also see:

- Keyboard lag: Type a word and wait for it to appear.
- Video lag/stutter: For example, youtube playing a video through chrome/safari with frequent 0.5 - 1 second jumps that are unrelated to any buffering issues.

That would be a nope from me on both points. I did experience keyboard lag once, but didn't think much of it. If it presented itself more than once in a week of usage, I haven't noticed.

I experience stuttering mainly in these areas (would love to hear from others on the matter):
- scrolling: in safari as well as in other apps, although less frequently.
- zooming & panning: mainly in heavy affinity documents. Cannot tell in Photoshop since it doesn't have smooth zooming anyway. It's not super present, but does appear from time to time.
- switching spaces: this is one of the most annoying ones, at least for me. Very inconsistent, but when it happens, usually happens a bunch of times afterwards. Looks like a fps drop.
- pointer: rarely, but sometimes the pointer stops while moving for a tenth of a second and then abruptly catches up with a jump.
- windows games: maybe this is totally normal, so keep it in mind. Even while the frame rate is high, moving the camera around might produce a slight lag and consequently a jump of the visual.
 

Espen Thuen Hansen

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 27, 2019
53
18
No keyboard lag here. Only micro stuttering when scrolling and zooming with Intergrated graphics that goes away with discrete enabled.
 

triangletechie

macrumors 65816
Apr 21, 2017
1,016
1,746
NC
Safari is sluggish for me on my 2018 MBP and my 2017 iMac. The color wheel pops up when I'm web surfing. Which is why I switched to Chrome which never bogs down.
 

MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
1,313
804
That would be a nope from me on both points. I did experience keyboard lag once, but didn't think much of it. If it presented itself more than once in a week of usage, I haven't noticed.

I experience stuttering mainly in these areas (would love to hear from others on the matter):
- scrolling: in safari as well as in other apps, although less frequently.
- zooming & panning: mainly in heavy affinity documents. Cannot tell in Photoshop since it doesn't have smooth zooming anyway. It's not super present, but does appear from time to time.
- switching spaces: this is one of the most annoying ones, at least for me. Very inconsistent, but when it happens, usually happens a bunch of times afterwards. Looks like a fps drop.
- pointer: rarely, but sometimes the pointer stops while moving for a tenth of a second and then abruptly catches up with a jump.
- windows games: maybe this is totally normal, so keep it in mind. Even while the frame rate is high, moving the camera around might produce a slight lag and consequently a jump of the visual.

Anything using the iGPU is one big mess for me especially Reddit on Safari/Chrome lol... Pop in the 5300M and BAAAM everything goes away.
 
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