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take your time to really explore Windows and this pc. You will encounter things that will cause frustration and possibly anger.

This can't be said enough. If I had have done this using Parallels / done it alongside my Mac, I'd have discovered that for me, the Mac can't be matched and my used-to-ness with it and the ecosystem. I see it cited as one of the biggest retaining factors of macOS on here. Even when PCs offer better specs per £, more flexibility, more repairability etc. I'd have saved a tonne of money. ThinkPads for one don't hold their value.

My X280 spec was £1,400 on the site atm.
Got it used for £600 (bargain of the year! or so I thought)
Tried selling it on, only got £500 as some were BNIB for £700.

All because I didn't carefully try Windows fairly / rushed and got frustrated. It's not the first time this happened either sadly
 

derekamoss

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,485
1,124
Houston, TX
I thank you for being one of many who has kindly put up with my PC drama, but the Asus died last night...

Wouldn’t turn back on.:rolleyes: It was charged. I tried pulling it in, nope. On the phone with Amazon tech and Asurion for several hours.

Tried again this morning and still dead. :confused:Returning it.

Not angry at all. These things happen (and it’s happened so many times over the past 3 years, I am numb to it).

Just find it almost hilarious at this point.

I was taking the differences in my stride (and used a wired mouse), and being a lot more patient.

Very good advice (as usual).

:oops:Thanks everyone, just going to ride the fumes of my iMac and regroup.:cool:

Sorry to hear about the ASUS. Honestly Even though I am all windows I have no clue really when it comes to any of the manufactures because I have kept with the Surface line and haven't done any research. Sorry I cant help but hope you get it fixed!
 
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kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,086
8,627
Any place but here or there....
Sorry to hear about the ASUS. Honestly Even though I am all windows I have no clue really when it comes to any of the manufactures because I have kept with the Surface line and haven't done any research. Sorry I cant help but hope you get it fixed!

Thanks.

It’s okay.

Process of elimination and that. I’ll wait and see what is released over the next few months.

I definitely will try again.

Reading these Acer Concept D manuals are very encouraging.
 
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Yamcha

macrumors 68000
Mar 6, 2008
1,825
158
I have been thinking quite long time to switch from Mac due to its high price. I am avid apple users anyway with 2 iMac, 4 macbook, 6 iphone and ipad. But I am still uncomfortable with Windows:

- Isn't that annoying to have antivirus that keep watching what you are doing, and ask for updates (only to make them 'smarter' catching the virus)?
- How reliable is hibernate/sleep in windows? I used windows laptop at my work and it needs to restart once a week after sleep/hibernate/resume during the week.
- How reliable / comfortable its integration with my phone. I used Notes in laptop and need to get them synced to my phone as I will read/continue writing with my phone
- PDF reader? Mac has Preview (which is quite good and lite) and PDF Expert (which also quite good, fast and lite). How about windows?
- Browser? Should I use IE or Ms. Edge (which I still confuse, their difference), or Chrome (with trade-off in battery)? Mac has Safari which will do most of browsing needs efficiently.

On the other side, I saw many positive on windows:
- some laptops are built very good, even really good and worth the money (i.e. asus zenbook)
- windows 10 is now more stable
- Ms. Office is much more polished than in Mac
- There are some applications available only on Windows

Should I switch? or should I wait?

If you're not comfortable with Windows 10, then you probably should stick to Macs. You can always rely on either refurbished Macs or used ones through places like Kijiji or eBay. Still, if you're really looking to switch, then it's still a lot easier to make the switch than it was before.

1. You won't have to worry about viruses too much, Microsoft has most of these things in check. Windows 10 comes with Windows Defender to take care of these, no need to use bloated third-party software. As long as you're careful, you won't have any issues.

2. Hiberation is as reliable as on the Mac, I haven't had any issues. Just be sure to get a replacement that has decent battery life. I'd suggest checking reviews, but don't go super cheap either. You won't have a good experience if there's no SSD.
 

Mendota

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2019
617
1,209
Omaha
Use windows in a vm for a while, before committing any money...

Remember , if only money is the reason to migrate to windows then except to be disappointed!!!

Windows is only good for gaming and excel!!! It’s otherwise a subpar OS in every aspect!!!

Umm no, it is not sub par in any way. You need to get out of your Apple world every now and then. I run Painter, 3D studio Max, Adobe Photoshop, Poser, and Rebelle just to name a few. Windows runs these demanding applications flawlessly, applications that Apple's so called Mac Pro would choke on. Even Painter and Photoshop have issues if you use in demanding brushes or plug ins. They start to heat up. Autodesk won't even bother to make their flagships products, Rivet, and 3D studio for Mac.

This is the problem with exclusive Apple users. Apple locks you into this tiny would where iMessage and FaceTime, and emojis are the hit of the day. They limit you to their few Pro programs such as Logic and Final cut (programs they lifted from others) and Apple users think that is the whole world... You have no idea what you are talking about.
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I believe the prices for any flagship phone is unjustified. Personally I just buy the top end Prepaid phone there is from my carrier for 130 and although it doesn't have top end specs it is only a little off. Galaxy 7 receives monthly android security updates from At&t every month, I know because I have one and Also have a Galaxy A6 which cost me 89 dollars and is way better than my S7 and gets all the updates. I also find your Apple reality distortion view quite entertaining. I like Surfaces and Samsung Galaxy Phones way more than iPhone but i'm not blindly loyal to them and see their defects when there are some. No Product is perfect ever, but to not be able to acknowledge any faults is crazy fanboyism

I am with you there. I just bought an LG Stylo for $100 bucks during Amazon Prime days. Great phone, it even has a stylus and I can take notes on the screen. I wasn't counting on much, but it runs everything and... wait for it... It has a headphone jack!

Edit for spelling.
 

nrvna76

macrumors 65816
Aug 4, 2010
1,243
1,268
Take a look at the Lenovo Yoga A940. Same size as the Surface Studio but much less expensive.

Ive been trying to research the best “bang for buck” computer for my wife’s photography business. Was considering a 27” iMac, had no idea this existed until I stumbled onto this thread.. it seems that this would be a great setup for her! thanks for the info!
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
Umm no, it is not sub par in any way. You need to get out of your Apple world every now and then. I run Painter, 3D studio Max, Adobe Photoshop, Poser, and Rebelle just to name a few. Windows runs these demanding applications flawlessly, applications that Apple's so called Mac Pro would choke on. Even Painter and Photoshop have issues if you use in demanding brushes or plug ins. They start to heat up. Autodesk won't even bother to make their flagships products, Rivet, and 3D studio for Mac.

This is the problem with exclusive Apple users. Apple locks you into this tiny would where iMessage and FaceTime, and emojis are the hit of the day. They limit you to their few Pro programs such as Logic and Final cut (programs they lifted from others) and Apple users think that is the whole world... You have no idea what you are talking about.

The performance of any application in Windows is going to depend on the hardware of the PC. Some Windows PCs will outperform a Mac Pro. Some will not.

And these are very specific programs you are referencing that the vast majority of computer users don't need. I'm a .Net developer and so I work on Windows 10 and enjoy doing so (even though Visual Studio is available on Mac). This doesn't apply to most so why would I reference it to influence others?

As far as programs Apple "lifted from others".....come on. Microsoft has been doing that since they bought DOS from Tim Patterson.

But yes, I disagree that Windows is "subpar". It is an excellent OS and is good for a heck of a lot more than just Excel and gaming.
 
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Mendota

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2019
617
1,209
Omaha
Bill Gates paid a fair price for DOS at the time, and then he himself adapted it for IBM. They needed an operating system and they selected Gates as one of his family members was on the board. Of course the type of system will impact performance, my issue with Apple is that systems they call 'Pro" and imply are desktop replacements, have often been anything but... And as for software Microsoft themselves created Windows, Office, OneDrive, Visual Studio, to name a few. Apple didn't even create the operating system they are using, a version of Unix lifted from Berkley.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
Bill Gates paid a fair price for DOS at the time, and then he himself adapted it for IBM. They needed an operating system and they selected Gates as one of his family members was on the board. Of course the type of system will impact performance, my issue with Apple is that systems they call 'Pro" and imply are desktop replacements, have often been anything but... And as for software Microsoft themselves created Windows, Office, OneDrive, Visual Studio, to name a few. Apple didn't even create the operating system they are using, a version of Unix lifted from Berkley.

Why do you keep saying "lifted"? That implies stolen. Apple didn't steal Unix from BSD which was open source. And the underpinnings are Unix based while the GUI is derived from the same OS that powered Mac for years before the switch to Darwin.

Microsoft is also guilty of "lifting" open source software. The newly announced Surface Duo is using Android. The new Edge browser is based on Chromium. So not sure what point you think you are making when you say Apple "lifted".....anything.

The history of Windows has long been rehashed with the early relationship between Microsoft and Apple, but let's not pretend Microsoft came up with Windows independent of that. Microsoft has developed some great software over the years, like the ones you've mentioned. They have also purchased a great deal of software and made it their own. Just like many companies do. There is nothing wrong with that, but again, let's not pretend everything MS does comes from entirely from within. Just not the case. Skype. Visio. Dynamics. Minecraft. The games from Lionhead Studios. Heck....they just bought 6 or 7 gaming studios because their internal studios couldn't keep up with Sony.

Weird that you have a problem with the term "Pro" when Microsoft uses it with Surface lineup. Those are not desktop replacements either. Never have been.
 
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LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,198
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Why do you keep saying "lifted"? That implies stolen.

It doesn't, it just means something already existed and in that form was lifted and used in a different way elsewhere.

Microsoft is also guilty of "lifting" open source software. The newly announced Surface Duo is using Android.

A bit far-fetched, they are using it as their chosen OS as any other Android phone.

Weird that you have a problem with the term "Pro" when Microsoft uses it with Surface lineup. Those are not desktop replacements either. Never have been.

The surface Pro absolutely is a desktop replacement, no idea where you are going with that one.
 
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TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
It doesn't, it just means something already existed and in that form was lifted and used in a different way elsewhere.

"Lifted" is also slang for stealing. At least it is in the US.

A bit far-fetched, they are using it as their chosen OS as any other Android phone.

Uh....what was far-fetched about what I said? I was using this as an example of Microsoft using open source software.

The surface Pro absolutely is a desktop replacement, no idea where you are going with that one.

Depends on what we are referring to as desktop replacement then. Mendota says the Mac "Pro" lineup are not desktop replacements. If that is the case then neither are Surface Pros. So if you want to take that up....start with Mendota, not me. I was going on his premise.
 
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LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,198
9,150
Over here
"Lifted" is also slang for stealing. At least it is in the US.

Fair enough, different uses then, it is used all the time in my world a different way. "I would just lift x from github and use it", "Is there nothing you could lift from elsewhere to save time?". Always in reference to utilising something else that already exists, not stealing it.
 
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TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
Fair enough, different uses then, it is used all the time in my world a different way. "I would just lift x from github and use it", "Is there nothing you could lift from elsewhere to save time?". Always in reference to utilising something else that already exists, not stealing it.

Sure. Regional differences then. I don't know many over here who would use the word "lift" in that way.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
Don't care, Apple is focused on consumer grade portable devices for the masses and has pretty much erased itself from many professional sectors. For some professions the Mac remains to be the weapon of choice, however that has diminished over the years as Apple has become ever more a lifestyle centric company.

Personally, Professionally and company wide switching to W10 professionally in 2016, I have zero regrets and less issues. We can procure hardware that meets the need and not need deal with excuse on excuse, why Apple cant...

I've gone from being a stalwart to Apple's worst customer; one who simply no longer cares what the company produces as it's become so irrelevant to our needs...

Recently watched the Microsoft event, looking strong; updates, new devices, new classes of devices. Apple Keynote ZZZ, don't even waste my time these days; same old same old, boring iterative updates and forced diversity to sell ever more devices, with the same old excuses "why we can't"...

Sometimes, just sometimes one needs the hardware to deliver, not solely impress the shallow. That tends to happen what you strive to design & produce the very best you can, something Apple has long forgotten...

Q-6
 
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LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,198
9,150
Over here
I can procure hardware that meets the need and not need deal with excuse on excuse, why Apple cant...

Building a new PC, it's like being a kid in a candy store, just so used to not being able to upgrade hardware. The spec on it is totally ridiculous with an i9, water cooled, RTX 2070, 32GB ram, 2TB NVMe and so on. Total cost is less than a base model 27" iMac, same price as the mid-tier if you add a couple of 25" Dell monitors to the cost.
 
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dwig

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2015
902
444
Key West FL
Why do you keep saying "lifted"? That implies stolen. Apple didn't steal Unix from BSD which was open source. And the underpinnings are Unix based while the GUI is derived from the same OS that powered Mac for years before the switch to Darwin.
...

Actually, it was Next that used BSD Unix as a source for their NextOS and then conned Apple into acquiring Next, which effectively ate Apple out from the inside. Darwin, the resulting OS, and all released OSX versions are really updates to the NextOS, just with an AppleOS like skin.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
Building a new PC, it's like being a kid in a candy store, just so used to not being able to upgrade hardware. The spec on it is totally ridiculous with an i9, water cooled, RTX 2070, 32GB ram, 2TB NVMe and so on. Total cost is less than a base model 27" iMac, same price as the mid-tier if you add a couple of 25" Dell monitors to the cost.

As they say "All show and no go" Apple is far to self absorbed to remotely consider it's customers will push the hardware. Clearly vast majority of Mac users don't, hence the current poor line up, showpices galore...



Q-6
 

LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,198
9,150
Over here
As they say "All show and no go" Apple is far to self absorbed to remotely consider it's customers will push the hardware. Clearly vast majority of Mac users don't, hence the current poor line up, showpices galore...

My new PC will be overkill but why not, it will be ready to tackle absolutely anything I throw it at rather than me wondering how I can dial my use back so the hardware can keep up (yes I go that on Mac).

Someone will be along to tell me that the iMac is more efficient as the OS and hardware are more in tune with each other and I am just being wasteful.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
My new PC will be overkill but why not, it will be ready to tackle absolutely anything I throw it at rather than me wondering how I can dial my use back so the hardware can keep up (yes I go that on Mac).

Someone will be along to tell me that the iMac is more efficient as the OS and hardware are more in tune with each other and I am just being wasteful.

More efficient is just code here for inadequate with zero headroom. Exactly what Apple wants to drive more sales year on year. Apple Pro = Joke at best, slapping it on everything they can upsell.

Goodbye, I'm done with Apple, until Apple changes it's tune. Simple Pro my Ass...

Q-6
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
So much angst over the word "Pro" when so many companies, including Microsoft, use the same marketing label.....but that's ok? And the more I look at Microsoft's Surface lineup....the more I see them trying to become more like Apple. Even have their own AirPod wannabe earphones.
 
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LeeW

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So much angst over the word "Pro" when so many companies, including Microsoft, use the same marketing label.....but that's ok? And the more I look at Microsoft's Surface lineup....the more I see them trying to become more like Apple. Even have their own AirPod wannabe earphones.

I get it, but if you look at it this way. And I am not trying to score points for any company here.

Surface Go
Surface Pro
Surface Pro X

That to me makes sense, base model is the Go, then you have the more advanced Pro then you have a better version of the Pro called the Pro X. Now whether you agree with the pricing, spec of each at each point in the line to justify 'Pro' is something else, but it makes sense.

Don't think Microsoft use Pro anywhere else? Ok, now Apple.

MacBook Pro

So, yeah, just one single device, it's just Pro because it is, there is no MacBook to compare it to the MacBook Pro, well, not any more. MBA? It is a separate neutered line to make it look like they care about providing lower pricing, better with an iPad Pro.

All I am saying is that I understand why people hit on the 'Pro' badge given to a laptop that is really just a single device in its own range that currently has 5 active repair programs for the faults it has. Starts at $1,300 but you need to spend $1,800 if you want to really work on it. Want to be really productive? Yeah, probably want to spend $2,400 but they are all, Pro.

Really not bashing Apple, I want to be a part of the eco-system, just not on their terms anymore. Such confusion from them at the minute, I really believe their interests are only in the iPhone, iPad and MBP although their interest in that is dwindling.

As for Microsoft and their Airpod wannabe earphones, a lot has changed in Microsoft, since Gates and others had the sense to hand over the reins there is renewed focus, better things happening all around, it is actually exciting to see what Microsoft is doing, like Apple, not perfect by any means.

Now that they have a clear interest in hardware it is only expected that they will go for the markets that complement their devices, earphones being one of them.
 
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TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
Don't think Microsoft use Pro anywhere else? Ok, now Apple.

MacBook Pro

So, yeah, just one single device, it's just Pro because it is, there is no MacBook to compare it to the MacBook Pro, well, not any more. MBA? It is a separate neutered line to make it look like they care about providing lower pricing, better with an iPad Pro.

Surface Go is also lowered priced and neutered with Windows S mode. So MS has their economy line just as Apple does. I do agree that they should still have MacBook. That has been one of Apple's biggest failings is the lack of consistency. I imagine they will have MacBook again at some point and make a big deal out of it. Regardless, this "Pro" thing is marketing. It is just a label. Doesn't make sense at all to make a big deal out of Apple's use of it and give MS a pass.

Really not bashing Apple, I want to be a part of the eco-system, just not on their terms anymore. Such confusion from them at the minute, I really believe their interests are only in the iPhone, iPad and MBP although their interest in that is dwindling.

Yeah.....Apple's primary interest are in portables and consumer services. I think that much is certain. I don't see their interest in Mac laptops dwindling at all. Saw where Mac OS has something like 14% marketshare. I would guess that is primary MacBooks. Apple is still fourth in the world as a PC seller.

As for Microsoft and their Airpod wannabe earphones, a lot has changed in Microsoft, since Gates and others had the sense to hand over the reins there is renewed focus, better things happening all around, it is actually exciting to see what Microsoft is doing, like Apple, not perfect by any means.

Now that they have a clear interest in hardware it is only expected that they will go for the markets that complement their devices, earphones being one of them.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for more products from Microsoft. But I don't get some who criticize Apple's "all show" and then praise Microsoft's offerings as if they are incredibly different.
 
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LeeW

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Feb 5, 2017
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Don't get me wrong. I'm all for more products from Microsoft. But I don't get some who criticize Apple's "all show" and then praise Microsoft's offerings as if they are incredibly different.

Some are like that I agree, but you get more clarity with Microsoft, and we are bouncing between these two companies purely as its easy, there are many that operate in different ways, I am sure we agree on that.

But I still think Apple lacks clear division in what they offer, always forcing the upsell, always. You know the Go is the surface budget product, the price makes that clear, as does the spec. Apple will never suggest anything is a budget line, but we know better right? To show that;

I am looking for a laptop with Apple, so let's walk through this.

The MBA, cheapest is $1,099, but only a dual-core i5, not great, not terrible and the SSD, only 128GB, I am a somewhat clueless consumer, I will probably live with the i5, hmm but that 128GB, I will probably burn through that quickly.

Ok, the MBA also has a $1,299 model, so $200 more, identical machine all I get is an extra 128GB SSD, but that sounds better, but a big jump for another 128GB SSD.

Wait, WTF, for $1,299 I can also get the MacBook PRO! Oh wait, it only has 128GB SSD... But it does have the touch bar, a far better quad-core i5 processor, and its the PRO, must be better! Oh ****, but back to 128GB SSD, I think I really need that 256GB to be safe, I can't upgrade later so I need to be careful.

Ok, well, let's look at the MBP with 256GB SSD, wow, that is $1,499 so another $200 again. But its the Pro and that way better processor and the touch bar. It's only $400 more than the first one I looked at..

You get the idea, I could then go on about spending another $300 for 4 USB-C, a faster i5 again but no more SSD.

You see the pattern, Apple ****s with consumers minds, those subtle differences force the upsell. Note that across the MBA and MBP, 6 devices ranging in price from $1,099 to $1,999 you only ever get an i5, the ram is always 8GB, the SSD is always 128GB or 256GB except when you make the leap to $1,999 you will get 512GB SSD but still the i5 and still 8GB ram.

Sure there is an element of that even in Microsoft, more at the bottom end but even in the Surface Laptop 3 line they are giving you an i5 (quad-core), 8GB ram and 256GB SSD at $999, by the time you hit $1,949 you are getting an i7, 512GB SSD and 16GB ram.

I know, I am ranting now :)

Again, nothing against anyone being in the eco-system, I have been in it longer than most, if it works for you then only you need to justify the cost, spec and so on, don't let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't do, just keep an open mind and understand that Apple wants to milk you dry, if you are going to let them, at least do it knowing who they are :)
 
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TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
785
898
Atlanta, GA
so let's walk through this.

Ok....let's do both sides. Surface Pro X has an ARM cpu. It starts at $999 without a keyboard (seriously?). Add another $130 for a keyboard and it is already more expensive than that MBA. And only 128GB SSD. It has a 256GB model for $1299. $200 upgrade. Sound familiar? And you have three configurations to choose from. 8GB RAM/128GB SSD for $999. 8GB RAM/256GB SSD for $1299. 16GB RAM/512GB SSD $1799. Not including the keyboard......somehow.

So why is the Surface Pro 7 cheaper and more powerful than this? Its base model is a couple hundred dollars less than the MBA once you add in the keyboard but that is for an i3. Add $150 for an i5. And you are upgrading from 128GB to 256GB for $300 this time. Add another $200 on top of that to go from 8GB to 16GB. Why can't you upgrade RAM without first upgrading the SSD? With MacBook you can upgrade them independent of each other. With MacBook Pro you choose your CPU independently as well. So I can upgrade my RAM in MacBook and then upgrade the SSD myself after the purchase. With Surface Pro X or 7, if you want 16GB then you have no choice but to get the 256GB SSD. Literally forcing the upsell with the Surface lineup.

You see the pattern, Apple ****s with consumers minds, those subtle differences force the upsell. Note that across the MBA and MBP, 6 devices ranging in price from $1,099 to $1,999 you only ever get an i5, the ram is always 8GB, the SSD is always 128GB or 256GB except when you make the leap to $1,999 you will get 512GB SSD but still the i5 and still 8GB ram.

That's not true. Like I said you can configure a $1299 MacBook Pro for i5 or i7, 8 or 16 GB of RAM, or between 128GB and 2TB SSD. MacBook Air does the same, as I mentioned, except for the CPU.

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/...rocessor-with-turbo-boost-up-to-3.9ghz-128gb#

To be clear. I'm not advocating either product line here. I'm trying to point out that what you are describing applies to BOTH not either/or. Personally, I bought a $800 Mac mini and popped a 500 GB SSD into one of the thunderbolt ports. I'm not playing these silly games that BOTH companies engage in, as you correctly say, to force the upsell.
 
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Mendota

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2019
617
1,209
Omaha
Why do you keep saying "lifted"? That implies stolen. Apple didn't steal Unix from BSD which was open source. And the underpinnings are Unix based while the GUI is derived from the same OS that powered Mac for years before the switch to Darwin.

Microsoft is also guilty of "lifting" open source software. The newly announced Surface Duo is using Android. The new Edge browser is based on Chromium. So not sure what point you think you are making when you say Apple "lifted".....anything.

The history of Windows has long been rehashed with the early relationship between Microsoft and Apple, but let's not pretend Microsoft came up with Windows independent of that. Microsoft has developed some great software over the years, like the ones you've mentioned. They have also purchased a great deal of software and made it their own. Just like many companies do. There is nothing wrong with that, but again, let's not pretend everything MS does comes from entirely from within. Just not the case. Skype. Visio. Dynamics. Minecraft. The games from Lionhead Studios. Heck....they just bought 6 or 7 gaming studios because their internal studios couldn't keep up with Sony.

Weird that you have a problem with the term "Pro" when Microsoft uses it with Surface lineup. Those are not desktop replacements either. Never have been.

Well the Surfaces are desktop replacements for many at the University. They just plug in external monitors and keep going. My point on Apple is that a machine they call pro should not have issues with overheating, keyboard, reliability, failing SDs, and multiple repair programs. I did not mean lifted as in stolen, I simply meant that for the person claiming that Windows was sub par, and had no premium programs, not only was that false, but most of the software that Apple calls pro was created by someone else, Logic, Final Cut, and the Operating system.

I am not in disagreement with you, I was replying to the other poster.
 
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