The 2019-2020 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

1. Champions League Final....Check
2. Women's World Cup....Check (Megan Rapinoe is my hero)
3. Copa America....Check
4. CONCACAF Gold Cup...Check
5. AFCON...Check

With the summer tournaments over, and with clubs now well into their money-spinning foreign summer tours, a new cycle begins. Unless you're Sadio Mané or Bobby Firmino, in which case you hardly get a break and it just seems like nonstop football....

MLS continues to rumble on, but they are always out of sync with the FIFA calendar so let's just not worry about that (Columbus are currently stinking the place out anyway, so I am OK not dwelling on MLS for now...)

Not a lot of big transfer stories this summer...Bale looks to be heading to China. Barca have got Griezmann and May also get Neymar back.

What else is happening... Juventus have mortgaged themselves to the hilt to try and win the Champions League this year before Ronaldo leaves, Man City are in a spat with the Chinese government, Liverpool are losing all of their big summer friendlies, Man Utd still don't have a director of football.

Will Dortmund make a credible challenge for the title this season? Will Barca's galacticos tip the balance against Zidane this season? Have Juventus overreached themselves looking for European glory? Will PSG actually look better without Neymar (and can any French team step out of their shadow)? Will Man City do something in Europe? Can Liverpool keep things interesting? Will Arsenal get relegated? (kidding!)

And, uh...<chuckles> can Celtic retain all their domestic silverware?

 

[JamesMike]

Will be watching the Man U/Spurs match on Thursday.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Thank you, @Lord Blackadder for starting a new thread for the coming season.

 

[Silencio]

Zidane has handled the Bale situation very, very poorly. Surely his words and actions have damaged Real's chances of getting a big payout for him. It's going to have to be some club in China, isn't it? Who else in Europe would be willing to take on Bale's stratospheric wages? Even Ed Woodward isn't that dim.

As long as Real can't ship Bale, they can't go in for Pogba, who has shown a good attitude and excellent performances so far in the preseason for United. A bit much to ask for that level of effort and commitment to be sustained over the long term, but still a good sign.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Zidane has handled the Bale situation very, very poorly. Surely his words and actions have damaged Real's chances of getting a big payout for him. It's going to have to be some club in China, isn't it? Who else in Europe would be willing to take on Bale's stratospheric wages? Even Ed Woodward isn't that dim.

As long as Real can't ship Bale, they can't go in for Pogba, who has shown a good attitude and excellent performances so far in the preseason for United. A bit much to ask for that level of effort and commitment to be sustained over the long term, but still a good sign.

It's a vexed question.

China does seem perhaps the most likely - but his wages are enormous, and whatever transfer fee Real demand would be subject to a 100% tax by the Chinese government. He might turn out to be too expensive, to old and too injury prone to sell. But Zidane has already burned all the bridges.

On the other hand, this is Real we are talking about - probably the most self-entitled football club in the world. They chose to shell out for him, and now that he's not a shiny new toy anymore they want to weasel out of a contract. If Bale ends up going full Winston Bogarde on them, they'll have deserved every Euro they waste on his wages going forward.

Then again, this could be one pf those summers where one huge sale prompts a chain reaction of deals across a several clubs. But who can realistically afford Bale?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It's a vexed question.

China does seem perhaps the most likely - but his wages are enormous, and whatever transfer fee Real demand would be subject to a 100% tax by the Chinese government. He might turn out to be too expensive, to old and too injury prone to sell. But Zidane has already burned all the bridges.

On the other hand, this is Real we are talking about - probably the most self-entitled football club in the world. They chose to shell out for him, and now that he's not a shiny new toy anymore they want to weasel out of a contract. If Bale ends up going full Winston Bogarde on them, they'll have deserved every Euro they waste on his wages going forward.

Then again, this could be one pf those summers where one huge sale prompts a chain reaction of deals across a several clubs. But who can realistically afford Bale?

Who can realistically afford Bale, or indeed, who can realistically afford Pogba? Or an Ozil?

At what stage do the extraordinary - and inflated cost - and grotesque stratospheric wages lead to a collapse inn demand?

Will - or, rather, when will this bubble - burst?

Will these characters choose to see out contracts - where relationships are fraught and respect absent - or accept a lower price (and wage packet) elsewhere?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Who can realistically afford Bale, or indeed, who can realistically afford Pogba? Or an Ozil?

At what stage do the extraordinary - and inflated cost - and grotesque stratospheric wages lead to a collapse inn demand?

Will - or, rather, when will this bubble - burst?

As long as the TV deals continue to grow apace, and as long as the top teams are willing an able to marshal incredible resources through (oligarchic) owner capital, climbing ticket prices, corporate tie-ins, and, frankly, cheating the taxman - then, the price of players will continue to grow. At the moment the market seems insane but there is no evidence we are anywhere near the ceiling. Some pundits have stated that the world's first billion Euro player has already been born and is perhaps a decade away from arriving on the scene.

From a fan's perspective, if you don't like this you can do a few things...don't spend a lot of money on TV packages to watch matches. Don't buy expensive tickets. Don't buy team merchandise. It might not change anything, but at least it means you are not directly supporting the bubble.

My only Liverpool shirt is almost old enough to vote.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

As long as the TV deals continue to grow apace, and as long as the top teams are willing an able to marshal incredible resources through (oligarchic) owner capital, climbing ticket prices, corporate tie-ins, and, frankly, cheating the taxman - then, the price of players will continue to grow. At the moment the market seems insane but there is no evidence we are anywhere near the ceiling. Some pundits have states that the world's first billion Euro player has already been born and is perhaps a decade away from arriving on the scene.

From a fan's perspective, if you don't like this you can do a few things...don't spend a lot of money on TV packages to watch matches. Don't buy expensive tickets. Don't buy team merchandise. It might not change anything, but at least it means you are not directly supporting the bubble.

My only Liverpool shirt is almost old enough to vote.

Excellent and thoughtful reply.

Actually, I already do all of this.

However, as an historian, I am also aware that growth cycles - or extraordinary bubbles or balloons - tend to burst, collapse or otherwise deflate at some stage.

But, in the case of football, obviously not yet.

Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see if Bale, or Pogba, or indeed, Ozil (to mention but three) have anyone put in an offer for any of them by the time the transfer window closes.

While the game itself is clearly becoming more costly, and expensive, some individual players (and their agents) seem to be pricing themselves out of the market.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Excellent and thoughtful reply.

Actually, I already do all of this.

That was more a hypothetical "you" then you.

But yes, we are all part of the system. When we accept massively inflated ticket prices or spend hundreds on TV sports package subscriptions, we are directly contributing to the inflation of the transfer market.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That was more a hypothetical "you" then you.

But yes, we are all part of the system. When we accept massively inflated ticket prices or spend hundreds on TV sports package subscriptions, we are directly contributing to the inflation of the transfer market.

Actually, don't worry, I had figured as much, but you made a very good - and salient - point about degrees of willing and enabling complicity (by way of kit, merchandise, TV packages) in the system and how this contributes to profits and stratospheric inflation of the transfer market and players wages.

Having said that, it used to be affordable for people on ordinary incomes to be able to attend matches on a weekly basis; I doubt that this is the case any longer, not in the PL at least.

However, teams - in this context, I refer to the most wealthy teams - don't really need much local support any longer, nt financial at any rate - thus, if local supporters can no longer afford to attend games regularly it is not considered a loss on the balance sheet (apart from applying agreeable optics and "colour" to TV cameras - for empty stadia aren't especially telegenic) as their reach is global and their owners usually distant and absent and based in other countries or continents, with little of the local loyalties that used to drive and define membership of, and ownership of, a club.

 

[JamesMike]

The Man U/Spurs match is getting started, go Man U! My Italian guests, who served with me in Rwanda, are watching it with me.

 

[JamesMike]

A good win by Man U, and an excellent goal by Angel Gomes, a Man U academy graduate, would like to see more of him this season.

 

[Silencio]

I think I have developed a newfound loathing of Spurs after this match. They couldn't play against United, so they kicked lumps out. Sissoko's stamp on Daniel James was absolutely disgraceful. Seeing other players go down with season-ending injuries in the preseason, there's just no place for that crap.

All of United's preseason goals were either scored or assisted by Academy graduates. The kids are alright!

Sweet winner by Angel Gomez, an immensely talented lad who kind of got forgotten last year amongst the hype for Greenwood and Chong. He looks ready to make his mark.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Nothing is worse than seeing players pick up major injuries in preseason. Liverpool's Nathaniel Clyne is out till 2020 with an ACL tear he picked up against Dortmund. Awful.

On the other hand, these preseason matches provide some valuable minutes to squad and youth players, so you do have to take the risk to a certain extent. But Sevilla were too rough. As were Spurs.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think I have developed a newfound loathing of Spurs after this match. They couldn't play against United, so they kicked lumps out. Sissoko's stamp on Daniel James was absolutely disgraceful. Seeing other players go down with season-ending injuries in the preseason, there's just no place for that crap.

All of United's preseason goals were either scored or assisted by Academy graduates. The kids are alright!

Sweet winner by Angel Gomez, an immensely talented lad who kind of got forgotten last year amongst the hype for Greenwood and Chong. He looks ready to make his mark.

Can’t win anything with kids.....oh wait!

 

[pachyderm]

NO manager at WEdnesday.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

There is no such thing as a friendly when it comes to an Atleti - Real match. Quite funny to see Real humbled by their rivals, though that so-and-so Costa did most of the damage.

NO manager at WEdnesday.

It's hard to blame managers for jumping ship when they think they have a good opportunity - clubs hire and fire them too freely in my opinion - but Bruce have left Wednesday in the lurch here.

 

[JamesMike]

Watching the Man U/Kristansund match. Funny how two of my neighbors show up just at the kickoff time, at least they brought beer - Stella - with them.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Watching the Man U/Kristansund match. Funny how two of my neighbors show up just at the kickoff time, at least they brought beer - Stella - with them.

Well that sounds like an acceptable trade off as long as it was chilled!

 

[Silencio]

Can't understand how United haven't scored yet. Playing very well and moving the ball quickly, just can't get that quality final ball or Kristansund defense is there to make the vital last second intervention, or their keeper makes a big save.

The more I watch Mason Greenwood, the more I'm impressed by him.

[EDIT: Mata draws what looked like a soft penalty in the 90th minute and duly scored from the spot. Still, a fair result.]

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool fans are restless about preseason losses...I say nonsense. Liverpool may or may not get off to a good start this season, but it won't have anything to do with preseason matches with 9 substitutes featuring youth players, unfamiliar formations, searing heat, and temporary pitches.

Nobody likes to see their team beaten, but what Liverpool's best players need is rest. Preseason gives Klopp the chance to experiment and see how our squad players perform. Results are irrelevant. Even the Community Shield is really a preseason match. Sure, I want Liverpool to win (they won't) - but I'd trade a loss there for a win the following week in the league.

Some real cracks starting to show between Poch and Levy at Spurs. This issue is only going to get worse.

 

[JamesMike]

Will get up early to watch the MLS All-Stars vs Atlético Madrid playing in Florida this Wednesday. Have not watched the MLS players too much this year, hopefully, they will play reasonably well.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Will get up early to watch the MLS All-Stars vs Atlético Madrid playing in Florida this Wednesday. Have not watched the MLS players too much this year, hopefully, they will play reasonably well.

The "match" was a farce. Subbing Guzan and Zlatan out ridiculously early, no pace in the MLS side, having players on the bench mic'd...

...and having to listen to the noise coming out of Alexi Lalas's beard-hole. He is such a blowhard. The only thing worse than that was the nauseating interview with commissioner Don Garber where the pundits cravenly pumped him about the next new team in the league, while playing clips of Garber shaking hands with different fan groups over the years - including Columbus fans! The gall.

Garber is a buffoon and the whole event was clumsy league propaganda. Bah.

 

[JamesMike]

The "match" was a farce. Subbing Guzan and Zlatan out ridiculously early, no pace in the MLS side, having players on the bench mic'd...

...and having to listen to the noise coming out of Alexi Lalas's beard-hole. He is such a blowhard. The only thing worse than that was the nauseating interview with commissioner Don Garber where the pundits cravenly pumped him abut the next new team in the league, while playing clips of Garber shaking hands with different fan groups over the years - including Columbus fans! The gall.

Garber is a buffoon and the whole event was clumsy league propaganda. Bah.

It did not do the MLS any favors.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

With the summer saturated with fake tournaments, it's hard to gin up any enthusiasm for the Community Shield. Liverpool's front line are short on rest, and while the squad is mostly intact it seems mad to throw them into a high-profile but competitively meaningless match right at the start of what will hopefully be a very competitive season. I've always found the Community Shield to be a fun "curtain-raiser" (to use a phrase Klopp recently encountered)...when my team isn't involved.

I know it sounds like getting the excuses in early, but I'd rather see Klopp rest players here. He'll get a ton of bad press for it, and Liverpool will likely lose (Man City will always have a deeper squad). But they'll likely lose anyway. On the other hand, if, say, Virgil or Firmino or Salah picked up a long-term injury in this match...I don't even want to think about it.

A lot of pundits are opining that Liverpool will not be able to push City as close in the league this time around. I think the odds are perhaps in favor of that outcome, though I am hopeful Klopp can helm another successful Champions League campaign and keep the club in the top two in the league. He's never had much interest in the cups, so I expect to get knocked out of those relatively early again...unless some of the young players / squad players like Brewster step up and make things happen.