The 2019-2020 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

PS: Why can Freddie not be the Coach after February 2020?

He is not sufficiently qualified; he doesn't have the necessary "badges" to take a team for more than three months, and he is not qualified at all for European competitions.

His appointment provides the reassurance of a familiar face who knows Arsenal, who will be motivated and passionately devoted to the club, who might manage to shore up that calamitous defence, and above all, will give the suits upstairs time to think about, plan for, woo, and put in place a decent manager.

 

[Apple fanboy]

He is not sufficiently qualified; he doesn't have the necessary "badges" to take a team for more than three months, and he is not qualified at all for European competitions.

His appointment provides the reassurance of a familiar face who knows Arsenal, who will be motivated and passionately devoted to the club, who might manage to shore up that calamitous defence, and above all, will give the suits upstairs time to think about, plan for, woo, and put in place a decent manager.

I have my 10 meters back stroke and a name badge. Do I qualify?

I always think the term badges make it sound like a cycling proficiency certificate.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Mind you, @ivanwi11iams, if Freddie gets some of his coaching badges (and I don't know the process of how one sets about achieving that) between now and February, there is little to stop Arsenal appointing him as interim manager until the end of the season, as I suspect that they wish to take the time to think long and carefully about this appointment - i.e. put the same sort of thought into this, that they had done before they appointed Mr Wenger to the position in the mid 1990s.

Firstly, because - traditionally - this is the Arsenal way - normally, they are a stable and serious club, not given to the abrupt firing of managers, and not remotely interested in anything that might serve to engender instability, and the last thing anyone wants is a sorry repetition of what Manchester United have been enduring in the wake of the departure of the legendary Sir Alex - and secondly, if you recall, they were prepared to wait quite some time for Wenger - they had an acting manager in place while they waited for Wenger to see out and serve out, his contract in Japan.
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I have my 10 meters back stroke and a name badge. Do I qualify?

I always think the term badges make it sound like a cycling proficiency certificate.

Agreed.

But it ensured that people who stumbled into management once their playing days had ended - and some were not remotely fit for such an appointment, indeed, I have long been struck by the number of excellent players who made poor managers - most good managers had been quite mediocre players, there were exceptions (Cruyff, Dalgliesh) but for most, the gulf between playing and managing was far greater than they had ever envisaged when they fancied themselves as dressing room experts - acquired some sort of recognised professional qualification, and some sort of objective notion of training.

Having said that, I'm not so sure that many of the self-indulgent narcissists currently on six figures a week would ever be likely to end up in management.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Mind you, @ivanwi11iams, if Freddie gets some of his coaching badges (and I don't know the process of how sets about achieving that) between now and February, there is little to stop Arsenal appointing him as interim manager until the end of the season, as I suspect that they wish to take the time to think long and carefully about this appointment - i.e. put the same sort of thought into this, that they had done before they appointed Mr Wenger to the position in the mid 1990s.

Firstly, because - traditionally - this is the Arsenal way - normally, they are a stable and serious club, not given to the abrupt firing of managers, and not remotely interested in anything that might serve to engender instability, and the last thing anyone wants is a sorry repetition of what Manchester United have been enduring in the wake of the departure of the legendary Sir Alex - and secondly, if you recall, they were prepared to wait quite some time for Wenger - they had an acting manager in place while they waited for Wenger to see out and serve out, his contract in Japan.
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Agreed.

But it ensured that people who stumbled into management once their playing days had ended - and some were not remotely fit for such an appointment, indeed, I have long been struck by the number of excellent players who made poor managers - most good managers had been quite mediocre players, there were exceptions (Cruyff, Dalgliesh) but for most, the gulf between playing and managing was far greater than they had ever envisaged when they fancied themselves as dressing room experts - acquired some sort of recognised professional qualification, and some sort of objective notion of training.

Having said that, I'm not so sure that many of the self-indulgent narcissists currently on six figures a week would ever be likely to end up in management.

I think some will make the transition. But I agree many will struggle to find another job they are capable of doing.
Let’s be honest a lot of them seem incapable of doing the job they are currently employed to do.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I think some will make the transition. But I agree many will struggle to find another job they are capable of doing.
Let’s be honest a lot of them seem incapable of doing the job they are currently employed to do.

That is more than true.

Personally, I find it hard - not just to stomach, but to understand - how someone can not want to give of their best, or of all of their best, when they are on something akin to six figures a week (or, sometimes, six figures a week multiplied by two or three), and are being paid to do something they love and are good at.

Elsewhere, Newcastle claim a draw - coming back twice from behind - (at 2-2) against Manchester City.

 

[Apple fanboy]

We’re actually a goal in front! Quite surprised but plenty of time to lose it yet!

It would be nice if Alvin Martins (hammers legend) kept a clean sheet on his debut at 33 no less!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

We’re actually a goal in front! Quite surprised but plenty of time to lose it yet!

It would be nice if Alvin Martins (hammers legend) kept a clean sheet on his debut at 33 no less!

You have claimed three points, and fought well for them, by all accounts.

So, West Ham beat Chelsea by a goal to nil; other results include Liverpool (hanging on, and down to ten men after Alisson was dismissed for a hand ball outside his area after he leaped to stop an overhead shot) defeating Brighton by two goals to one, and Spurs barely holding on (having led 3-0) to Bournemouth, winning by 3-2. Elsewhere, Crystal Palace defeat Burnley by two goals to nil.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

An ugly win from Liverpool today, though not as bad a performance as some will probably assert. Brighton were punished ruthlessly for some early lax defending with Dunk especially guilty of being dominated by Virgil van Dijk. Liverpool then probably should have made the game safe in the first half with a couple excellent chances but Brighton bounced back with some strong defending and a slice of luck. They kept fighting in the second half and were rewarded with a pretty flukey goal, though Liverpool can have no complaints about it. Alisson had to go after his deliberate handball. His replacement Adrian was unhappy with his wall during the run-up to the resulting free kick and as he shouted at his teammates the ref blew the whistle. Everyone on both teams continued to mill about aimlessly...except Dunk. He rolled the weakest free 'kick' you'll ever see straight into the far corner. After that Liverpool were clinging on, but Brighton didn't quite have the quality necessary to break through for an equalizer.

It's important to remember that Liverpool are set to play a ludicrous number of matches over the next month. This means that the new 'normal' is trying to win games with shuffled lineups, a few big players missing to injury, and playing at perhaps 80%. That is more or less what they did today.

Liverpool still can't keep a clean sheet, but they continue to win and Man City dropped points again today.

We’re actually a goal in front! Quite surprised but plenty of time to lose it yet!

It would be nice if Alvin Martins (hammers legend) kept a clean sheet on his debut at 33 no less!

Wish granted. A big win for the Hammers, and the gaffer keeps his job for another week.

 

[Apple fanboy]

An ugly win from Liverpool today, though not as bad a performance as some will probably assert. Brighton were punished ruthlessly for some early lax defending with Dunk especially guilty of being dominated by Virgil van Dijk. Liverpool then probably should have made the game safe in the first half with a couple excellent chances but Brighton bounced back with some strong defending and a slice of luck. They kept fighting in the second half and were rewarded with a pretty flukey goal, though Liverpool can have no complaints about it. Alisson had to go after his deliberate handball. His replacement Adrian was unhappy with his wall during the run-up to the resulting free kick and as he shouted at his teammates the ref blew the whistle. Everyone on both teams continued to mill about aimlessly...except Dunk. He rolled the weakest free 'kick' you'll ever see straight into the far corner. After that Liverpool were clinging on, but Brighton didn't quite have the quality necessary to break through for an equalizer.

It's important to remember that Liverpool are set to play a ludicrous number of matches over the next month. This means that the new 'normal' is trying to win games with shuffled lineups, a few big players missing to injury, and playing at perhaps 80%. That is more or less what they did today.

Liverpool still can't keep a clean sheet, but they continue to win and Man City dropped points again today.



Wish granted. A big win for the Hammers, and the gaffer keeps his job for another week.

I think I’d be more worried about Leicester than Man City at this point.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy regarding lots of games though. We all have a lot of games coming up. Some of us with much smaller squads. When you have 2nd choice players that would walk into most other teams, it’s not all bad!


Plus if you progress in various tournaments, you will have more games to play.
Winning ugly, still earns you three points. As long as you continue to do that you’ll be fine.
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You have claimed three points, and fought well for them, by all accounts.

So, West Ham beat Chelsea by a goal to nil; other results include Liverpool (hanging on, and down to ten men after Alisson was dismissed for a hand ball outside his area after he leaped to stop an overhead shot) defeating Brighton by two goals to one, and Spurs barely holding on (having led 3-0) to Bournemouth, winning by 3-2. Elsewhere, Crystal Palace defeat Burnley by two goals to nil.

I was very happy for our debut keeper! I remember his dad very fondly.
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An ugly win from Liverpool today, though not as bad a performance as some will probably assert. Brighton were punished ruthlessly for some early lax defending with Dunk especially guilty of being dominated by Virgil van Dijk. Liverpool then probably should have made the game safe in the first half with a couple excellent chances but Brighton bounced back with some strong defending and a slice of luck. They kept fighting in the second half and were rewarded with a pretty flukey goal, though Liverpool can have no complaints about it. Alisson had to go after his deliberate handball. His replacement Adrian was unhappy with his wall during the run-up to the resulting free kick and as he shouted at his teammates the ref blew the whistle. Everyone on both teams continued to mill about aimlessly...except Dunk. He rolled the weakest free 'kick' you'll ever see straight into the far corner. After that Liverpool were clinging on, but Brighton didn't quite have the quality necessary to break through for an equalizer.

It's important to remember that Liverpool are set to play a ludicrous number of matches over the next month. This means that the new 'normal' is trying to win games with shuffled lineups, a few big players missing to injury, and playing at perhaps 80%. That is more or less what they did today.

Liverpool still can't keep a clean sheet, but they continue to win and Man City dropped points again today.



Wish granted. A big win for the Hammers, and the gaffer keeps his job for another week.

Hopefully long enough that Moyes goes to Everton!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

An ugly win from Liverpool today, though not as bad a performance as some will probably assert. Brighton were punished ruthlessly for some early lax defending with Dunk especially guilty of being dominated by Virgil van Dijk. Liverpool then probably should have made the game safe in the first half with a couple excellent chances but Brighton bounced back with some strong defending and a slice of luck. They kept fighting in the second half and were rewarded with a pretty flukey goal, though Liverpool can have no complaints about it. Alisson had to go after his deliberate handball. His replacement Adrian was unhappy with his wall during the run-up to the resulting free kick and as he shouted at his teammates the ref blew the whistle. Everyone on both teams continued to mill about aimlessly...except Dunk. He rolled the weakest free 'kick' you'll ever see straight into the far corner. After that Liverpool were clinging on, but Brighton didn't quite have the quality necessary to break through for an equalizer.

It's important to remember that Liverpool are set to play a ludicrous number of matches over the next month. This means that the new 'normal' is trying to win games with shuffled lineups, a few big players missing to injury, and playing at perhaps 80%. That is more or less what they did today.

Liverpool still can't keep a clean sheet, but they continue to win and Man City dropped points again today.



Wish granted. A big win for the Hammers, and the gaffer keeps his job for another week.

Yes, @Lord Blackadder, but as aspiring champions, Liverpool both have to know how to win pretty and stylishly and also they must know how to win ugly, and grind out a win. Every team who has ever won the premiership have had wins that are less than classy, or uplifting, or inspirational.

They won today, and held on; that is what counts on a title run.

Last season, when they won the Champion's League, and came second - by a point - to the team accruing the highest points total ever - in the Premiership, showed that they have the quality to win an perform well consistently.

There challenge this year is not to show that they can achieve footballing perfection; it is to stay ahead of everyone else chasing them.

At this stage of the season, and yes, there is quite along way to go, they are still ahead of the pack by a generous margin, still winning, still leading from the front (as Manchester City were for so long), and, frankly, - at the moment - it is their's to lose.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I don’t have a lot of sympathy regarding lots of games though. We all have a lot of games coming up. Some of us with much smaller squads. When you have 2nd choice players that would walk into most other teams, it’s not all bad!


Plus if you progress in various tournaments, you will have more games to play.
Winning ugly, still earns you three points. As long as you continue to do that you’ll be fine.

Liverpool are certainly not the only club facing some nasty fixture congestion, though they are perhaps suffering more than most. But Klopp does have a deep squad to work with. The point is that Liverpool fans should not expect to see Klopp play his strongest lineup, nor should they expect swashbuckling performances. The name of the game is now focus and efficiency. Liverpool have the biggest target on their back and every opponent will be hugely motivated to be the first to beat them in the league.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Liverpool are certainly not the only club facing some nasty fixture congestion, though they are perhaps suffering more than most. But Klopp does have a deep squad to work with. The point is that Liverpool fans should not expect to see Klopp play his strongest lineup, nor should they expect swashbuckling performance The name of the game is now focus and efficiency. Liverpool have the biggest target on their back and every opponent will be hugely motivated to be the first to beat them in the league.

Well, they haven't yet lost a game this season, and only lost once during all of last season.

They may have a target on their back, but are still very, very difficult to beat.

Elsewhere, Arsenal at Carrow Road (against Norwich) are very much the same old, same old.

Atrocious defending - really dismal, utterly and embarrassingly dire, defenders asleep or unable (or unwilling) to concentrate, of focus, let aloe read a game and tackle, while the forwards, (and the excellent goalkeeper, Leno, possibly Emery's best buy) keep the team afloat.

Two all for now, and Freddie Ljungberg now has some idea (as a manager) of the challenging task ahead of him.

Clearing out the defence section of that dressing room may be a start.

For the fact of the matter is, if a team does not (or can not) put on their best performance for a manager who has just been appointed (even if temporarily), it is a pretty poor omen; this is because, normally, teams get a burst of optimism - and a burst of creative energy and improbable improvement - when a new manager has been appointed. Players want to impress.

An even worse omen, if possible, is if that the team in question - or the section of the team in question (in this instance, we are discussing defence) cannot show some sort of desire to improve, or put in even a marginally better performance on the appointment of a new manager. That means that they are uncoachable, and cannot be improved, not in those circumstances.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If that abysmal defence (and today, Mustafi and Luiz were especially culpable) couldn't improve - and lapsed into the usual errors of standing still when the opponents moved the ball, misreading the game, switching off, going walkabout, busy missing in action, falling asleep, failing to anticipate and tackle, - when a new manager has his beady eye on them for the first time they play under him, there is little hope for them.

Positives: Arsenal have a superb goalkeeper, who deserves to be playing behind a far better defence. And their excellent forwards still know how to score.

I'll be surprised if some dramatic and drastic (especially in defence) changes are not made - or mooted - during the coming transfer window.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

If that abysmal defence (and today, Mustafa and Luiz were especially culpable) couldn't improve - and lapsed into the usual errors of standing still, when the opponents moved the ball, misreading the game, switching off, going walkabout, busy missing in action, failing to anticipate and tackle, - when a new manager has his beady eye on them for the first time they play under him, there is little hope for them.

Positives: Arsenal have a superb goalkeeper, who deserves to be playing behind a far better defence. And their forwards still know how to score.

I'll be surprised if some dramatic and drastic (especially in defence) changes are not made - or mooted - during the coming transfer window.

They need a commanding center back badly. For the moment, it would be harsh to expect anything to change. When a new manager comes in we can start looking for an identity. But the players are still the same. Interesting to see that despite the issues surrounding him, Ozil has now outlasted both Wenger and his replacement.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They need a commanding center back badly. For the moment, it would be harsh to expect anything to change. When a new manager comes in we can start looking for an identity. But the players are still the same. Interesting to see that despite the issues surrounding him, Ozil has now outlasted both Wenger and his replacement.

Well, Wenger brought in Ozil, and I don't recall reading about any animosity between player and manager, whilst Wenger remained manager. If anything, he indulged Ozil. Now, of course, one did read accounts of underperformance and going MIA in important games, yes, but not any significant degree of antagonism.

That certainly did come with Unai Emery, - who - as far as I know, wished to sell him - but Ozil was not remotely the worst player on the field today; indeed, if anything, the "new manager burst" the desire to impress a new manager seems to have had some sort of impact on Ozil.

Agreed, they do need a commanding central back, and defenders who manage not to either fall asleep, go missing in action, or stand stock still whenever an opponent starts making a even a desultory movement in the direction of the Arsenal box.

Re expecting anything to change, I'd like to see a little energy, ambition, desire, and some sort of serious energy - these guys are too posh to even run, let alone run with urgency, rather than stroll gently, or amble idly, or trot lethargically; and, of course, some attempt to address glaring and obvious defensive frailties would be a good idea.

It smacks of an almost admirably tenacious, pure mulish idiocy to keep on making the same mistake, game after game, week after week, month after month, season after season.....

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Agreed, they do need a commanding central back, and defenders who manage not to either fall asleep, go missing in action, or stand stock still whenever an opponent starts making a even a desultory movement in the direction of the Arsenal box.

A superstar center back would make a difference, in terms pf providing leadership and an example. Of course, defending requires excellent teamwork, so no single player will fix the problem.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who watched Klopp build a winning team at Liverpool, Arsenal's next manager needs, first and foremost, to present the board, players, and fans with a plan and style that people can clearly see and buy into. And then - and here is the tricky part - the plan has to work, at least to the extent that people see some level of positive development. The plan itself may change, too - Klopp is no longer the pure gegenpresser he was when he first arrived in Liverpool - but there has to be some end product that people can point to.

There is also the problem of the ownership. Are Kroenke and his suits committed enough - and capable enough - to make Arsenal competitive? Or are they merely businessmen who understand how to make money but fail to ever balance that against even the thinnest veneer of a competitive spirit? Most of what club have now in terms of resources and reputation predate Kroenke. To what extent has he added anything of value? Can he, or his minions, turn things around? Arsenal fans may find, as Man Utd fans before them, that when the long-term manager goes, much of what they thought was the foundation of the club goes with him.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

FA Cup 3rd Round: So, Man City get a bye in the next round of the FA Cup (OK, they face Port Vale...), while Liverpool drew Everton. A few other fixtures: an interesting Arsenal - Leeds tie, Crystal Palace v Derby, Wolves v Man Utd.

Meanwhile, Messi wins the Ballon d’Or again (yawn), alongside Megan Rapinoe (Yay!).

 

[pachyderm]

'Cos I know you lot like to keep up with the lower divisions...


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...eld-wednesday-chairman-could-banned-football/

 

[Scepticalscribe]

'Cos I know you lot like to keep up with the lower divisions...


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...eld-wednesday-chairman-could-banned-football/

Must say that I love the very name "Sheffield Wednesday" - it has a certain je ne sais quoi, a certain ring to it.

Having said that, a depressing read, and thanks for sharing.

The old model of a football club having roots and strong ties to its local community seems to have become increasingly eroded (and corroded).

 

[Lord Blackadder]

'Cos I know you lot like to keep up with the lower divisions...


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...eld-wednesday-chairman-could-banned-football/

There is such a painful irony in a club selling its own stadium in order to avoid breaching financial "sustainability" rules. The very definition of short-termism.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

There is such a painful irony in a club selling its own stadium in order to avoid breaching financial "sustainability" rules. The very definition of short-termism.

It is worse than a painful irony; it is a sort of nihilism compounded by the expression of a contemptuous short-term greed and informed by a lack of concern for local loyalties and identities.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It is worse than a painful irony; it is a sort of nihilism compounded by the expression of a contemptuous short-term greed along informed by a lack of concern for local loyalties and identities.

There need to be more rules to prevent this. While clubs should be allowed to run their business as they see fit - up to a point - football should NOT be a wild west where capitalists can swoop in and do what they please with what are in essence local cultural institutions.

While I'm up on my soapbox, (and in the context of Amazon's new Premier League TV deal) Football TV deals have long since gone insane (and taken the finances of the professional game along with it). Can consumers really honestly say that the cost of watching football on TV represents good value?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

There need to be more rules to prevent this. While clubs should be allowed to run their business as they see fit - up to a point - football should NOT be a wild west where capitalists can swoop in and do what they please with what are in essence local cultural institutions.

While I'm up on my soapbox, (and in the context of Amazon's new Premier League TV deal) that the TV deals have long since gone insane (and taken the finances of the professional game along with it). Can consumers really honestly say that the cost of watching football on TV represents good value?

No, I'm afraid that they can't.

Football runs the risk of pricing itself out of the market - at the lower income end, anyway, both in terms of TV viewers and in terms of those who can actually afford to pay for a ticket to go and watch a match.

Perhaps they feel that they can dispense with such viewers (and ticket holders).

Anyway, I agree completely with your post.

 

[JamesMike]

Watching Man City vs Burnley, hope to see good play on both sides.

 

[Silencio]

It's going to be a make or break week for OGS at United. Poch is available and seemingly interested in the job, United have two derbies — the Mourinho Derby and the Manchester Derby — between today and the weekend, the squad is facing even more key injuries — Anthony Martial is unavailable to play against Spurs tonight, no idea if McTominay will be back, either.

I can easily see OGS losing his job if United lose both of these matches, even if the circumstances are pretty unfair with the injury situation. Still, I don't think he's managed the part of his squad that's actually fit all that well, he's made some bad mistakes tactically and with substitutions, and the team has just not showed well enough against some lower level competition despite some signs of progress. I was pretty firmly on the side of giving him time, but now I'm not so sure, especially with such a desirable and accomplished alternative free and available.