I'm sure the truck achieves the goals its set out for from a performance side
But that look is going to be a serious hill for consumers to climb.
But that look is going to be a serious hill for consumers to climb.
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The Car Thread ... !
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It may have it's spot..somewhere.. but it I don't see someone making the decision to get a Cybertruck over a Raptor when the pricing will be so close.
That could have been a v2.0 in 5 years after doing a v1 that is just a tad more conventional to get people into them, make them love it and then radicalize it once you have the following.
I have a Tesla and a Ford truck, and unless my brain flips on me out of nowhere, that thing won't be in my driveway.
It's about 2 pencil lines away from being the warthog from Halo.
That could have been a v2.0 in 5 years after doing a v1 that is just a tad more conventional to get people into them, make them love it and then radicalize it once you have the following.
I have a Tesla and a Ford truck, and unless my brain flips on me out of nowhere, that thing won't be in my driveway.
It's about 2 pencil lines away from being the warthog from Halo.
The question is: did the movies predict the future or create it through their influence?
The DeLorean had the Flux Capacitor though. Mad it much more interesting to drive!
What makes a truck... a truck? Ground Clearance? pickup bed? tow ability? Power? check, check and check. If the only defense of it not being a truck is you don't like the way it looks, then no one will ever change your mind. It's one unique vehicle, but I still consider it a truck and the design has grown on me really quickly.
Let's consider exact rectangles to be cars, too, while we're at it. That's a concept car. Until it sees real world usage by real world contractors, it isn't anything.
It barely has a bed.
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IMO Tesla did themselves a disservice by not going with a traditional but electric look. A doorstop design isn't going to win the money of those who would need such a tool.
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Looks more like forged carbon fiber.
It barely has a bed.
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The conceptual design you posted a page ago was by far better looking and can easily sell, even if it went up against Ford's upcoming F150 electric. I don't know why Tesla didn't preview something like it. There is a market for all electric trucks. A large one considering the benefits they sport.
IMO Tesla did themselves a disservice by not going with a traditional but electric look. A doorstop design isn't going to win the money of those who would need such a tool.
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Looks more like forged carbon fiber.
From fans of the brand. Repeat customers who have bought or owned at least one Tesla vehicle in the past. It says little of people who use a truck for work. Plenty for people who buy a truck for looks and as a pavement queen.
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The Rivian is a good example. With GM and Ford moving towards offering an electric truck, they offer more than a "cheaper" alternative. You can get your truck repaired should something happen to it. Replacement parts won't have you waiting days or weeks in the case of physical damage via accident. Let's not kid ourselves here though. It isn't about price, because middle American doesn't have a problem with dropping 50-80K on a truck nowadays. This is on top of bulk base to near-base sales.
Ford supposedly sells a truck nearly every minute or close to that time figure all over the world. Even if Tesla were somehow successful unhooking the big three, they don't and won't have the capacity to build them fast enough, and that's on top of their teething problems. They'd have to spend money on factories or contract out to coach builders.
However, there's hope, see the post above about the new Audi, sure it's got some "I'm an EV" design ticks, but it looks way more like an ICE vehicle than not
And it should Drive like the standart e-tron.
I am surprised nobody mentioned the Digital LED Headlights. https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/m...dis-new-headlights-are-good-enough-play-movie
BTW the normal e-tron already drives fanastic.
it may satisfy their sales goals, but I’d imagine it’s far less than any sizable part of the pickup market share. If the goal is to have as many electric pickup trucks in the road, this was not the right product. And that would make them pretty stupid from a business viewpoint. And I think the stock today reflects that sentiment.
I know Tesla posted ONE interior pic and release estimates online, but it’s strange to me they didn’t talk about it in the presentation. I’m not sure a slab of marble sounds very safe...
Stainless steel is expensive and dents and scratches cannot be repaired which will probably make costs insurance very high. It’s worth noting that Franz used a RUBBER mallet to hit the car (as evidenced by no scratching on the regular steel door). I’d imagine a metal object would leave a mark on the stainless. Another problem DeLorean had was the inability to paint the car turned off customers who wanted something more customized. That said, when the DeLorean came out it was very much a flop and probably would have been lost to history in most people’s minds (like the Bricklin) had it not been for Back to the Future.
I’m sure there’s a segment of people that will buy this, but I see the Rivian as a far more desirable product for your average consumer pickup buyer. Had Tesla wanted wanted to sell as many trucks as possible to achieve their goals of converting as many buyers to EV from ICE, they wouldn’t have made something so polarizing. I don’t think the 80’s retro futuristic look will win over most pickup owners.
I'm still there too, my truck is an F350 6.7L Dually, straight piped and programmer. And the wife's MB GLS550 w/ a ECU upgrade and recently got rid of an AMG GT Roadster.
I was just looking for something more comfortable for myself as a daily driver and the F350 is around $200-250 a month in diesel.
It has been paid off for several years and we still have large 5th wheels to tow so I still need it for a while but the X is a blast so far.
John Delorean's stated plan of action in a collision was that a damaged body panel would be completely replaced rather than repaired. This actually worked decently well when the company was still around, and panel swaps are relatively easy from what I understand. The Delorean is a fiberglass "tub" with a Lotus-inspired steel "backbone" type frame. IIRC, most of the visible stainless isn't structural, or at least is not critical to the structure, so they really do bolt on and off.
It's also worth noting that Delorean went through a fair few "teething pains" and had to modify some panels as production went on to get the yields up. The hood is the most notable-the early ones had two creases running front to back in them along with a flap over the gas filler so that you could put gas in without raising the hood. Initially the flap went away to reduce the complexity of that panel stamping, and later the hood became completely flat because too many were cracking or coming out less than perfect when stamped. There again, too, you don't have paint to hide any visible stress or other issues from stamping.
Along those same lines-some people have become experts at repairing Delorean panels, and their services are in high demand(I think that Delorean in Houston either still has old stock of some panels, or stamps new ones). You do see painted Deloreans, though, and usually they were painted to cover crash damage.
I know DeLorean dealers tried painting them to try and boost stagnant sales, but long term faced paint adherence problems.
It’s also unclear if Tesla is using individual body panels or larger stamped panels... given the “exoskeleton” design I’d imagine swapping out body panels will not be an easy task.
So I watched the full presentation of the Cybertruck:
Few thoughts—
So as far as the whole ‘unbreakable glass’ that actually broke, Elon seemed completely shocked that that it happened. I’m wondering actually when they tested the glass to ensure it wouldn’t break prior to the demo, if it was not actually installed on the Truck when they were testing it in the factory. But my theory is....when the glass is installed on the truck, The glass is cut in such a unique shape, that it almost exposes maybe a weakness when the steel ball is thrown at it dead center in the glass, resulting in a shatter.
Also, looking at interior photos, I don’t know what to make of that steering wheel. It’s pretty unique, but it’s very ‘untraditional’. For some, that will probably offer a steep learning curve with that particular style steering wheel.
But reading what somebody else had to say about the Cybertruck, I thought was a valid point, the poster [From another site] mentioned that he owns a small business and spends thousands of dollars a year in overhead costs with ‘work trucks’ with maintenance/fuel, But the Cybertruck would be perfect for their business, and he would save a surmountable amount of money with an EV. (So there is a demographic that would probably see the practicality for something like this for a business owner.)
Which leads me to my last point what Zentihal said above, if the Cybertruck proves to be successful, can they produce them fast enough to make a significant impact against the other truck segments? Which have suppliers widespread versus Teslas remote location in Fremont, California.
I would be curious to know how long it actually takes to produce one Cybertruck given the addition of the stainless panels.
Few thoughts—
So as far as the whole ‘unbreakable glass’ that actually broke, Elon seemed completely shocked that that it happened. I’m wondering actually when they tested the glass to ensure it wouldn’t break prior to the demo, if it was not actually installed on the Truck when they were testing it in the factory. But my theory is....when the glass is installed on the truck, The glass is cut in such a unique shape, that it almost exposes maybe a weakness when the steel ball is thrown at it dead center in the glass, resulting in a shatter.
Also, looking at interior photos, I don’t know what to make of that steering wheel. It’s pretty unique, but it’s very ‘untraditional’. For some, that will probably offer a steep learning curve with that particular style steering wheel.
But reading what somebody else had to say about the Cybertruck, I thought was a valid point, the poster [From another site] mentioned that he owns a small business and spends thousands of dollars a year in overhead costs with ‘work trucks’ with maintenance/fuel, But the Cybertruck would be perfect for their business, and he would save a surmountable amount of money with an EV. (So there is a demographic that would probably see the practicality for something like this for a business owner.)
Which leads me to my last point what Zentihal said above, if the Cybertruck proves to be successful, can they produce them fast enough to make a significant impact against the other truck segments? Which have suppliers widespread versus Teslas remote location in Fremont, California.
I would be curious to know how long it actually takes to produce one Cybertruck given the addition of the stainless panels.
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On the glass: from a JerryRigEverything video (from 4:00 min mark) I’ve learned that they did in fact throw the ball at the car before, multiple times, without problems. Most likely the glass was already compromised.
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Very interesting piece!
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The thing with glass is that it will endure stress and then out of nowhere break. It's not unheard of for a non-touched piece of glass to explode one day out of the blue. SGB is something that affects tempered glass. I have no idea whether the rules for SGB apply to whatever Tesla is using on that concept vehicle.
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Going off of your post and Bunn's, if the fiberglass tub was damaged, wouldn't that be a very expensive repair bill being a monocoque design or am I missing something here?
Speaking of cars, I finally replaced the headlights on my 2016 Scion iM.
But interestingly, not with an LED "bulb" setup--I installed the Sylvania XtraVision 9012, essentially the Vosla HIR2+30 bulb. It's definitely better than the original OEM 9012's. (I thought about getting the HIR2+120, but some people say the bulb life is shorter, so....)
But interestingly, not with an LED "bulb" setup--I installed the Sylvania XtraVision 9012, essentially the Vosla HIR2+30 bulb. It's definitely better than the original OEM 9012's. (I thought about getting the HIR2+120, but some people say the bulb life is shorter, so....)
I don't normally pop into this thread, but events this week have led me to post here.
I'm a Ford guy, mainly because my dad worked for the company for 31 years and I get the A/Z plan discount.
When I saw this "Mustang" Mach- E abomination they've created I couldn't stay silent. To me, this is not a Mustang. Since 1964 and a half, the name has been synonymous with muscle cars and has had 2 doors. It's a muscle CAR, not a muscle SUV.
My gripe isn't with it being electric. That doesn't bother me at all. My gripe is about Ford making an SUV and calling it a Mustang. I think it's an abomination to the name and legacy that is the Ford Mustang.
I'd be cool with a high performance electric Mustang, as a 2-door coupe/convertible though.
Anyway, I had to let Ford know my opinion and I stopped by my dealership yesterday to see how best to get customer feedback to corporate HQ on this. They gave me the website and phone number which is on their main site anyway.
Hell, I don't live very far from Dearborn as it is - 59 miles. If I thought they'd let me in and speak with them in person, I'd drive over there and do so.
That's my opinion. I saw a few comments in here of folks who do like it. That's cool, too. As far as the design of it and it being an electric SUV, I think it looks fine and I'd even consider getting one. But, I don't think it should be called a Mustang. Call it something else.
I'm a Ford guy, mainly because my dad worked for the company for 31 years and I get the A/Z plan discount.
When I saw this "Mustang" Mach- E abomination they've created I couldn't stay silent. To me, this is not a Mustang. Since 1964 and a half, the name has been synonymous with muscle cars and has had 2 doors. It's a muscle CAR, not a muscle SUV.
My gripe isn't with it being electric. That doesn't bother me at all. My gripe is about Ford making an SUV and calling it a Mustang. I think it's an abomination to the name and legacy that is the Ford Mustang.
I'd be cool with a high performance electric Mustang, as a 2-door coupe/convertible though.
Anyway, I had to let Ford know my opinion and I stopped by my dealership yesterday to see how best to get customer feedback to corporate HQ on this. They gave me the website and phone number which is on their main site anyway.
Hell, I don't live very far from Dearborn as it is - 59 miles. If I thought they'd let me in and speak with them in person, I'd drive over there and do so.
That's my opinion. I saw a few comments in here of folks who do like it. That's cool, too. As far as the design of it and it being an electric SUV, I think it looks fine and I'd even consider getting one. But, I don't think it should be called a Mustang. Call it something else.
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Interesting video. Would’ve been nice to see it in real time v.s. Slo-mo. As someone else I think mentioned already, maybe it was from the consistent testing of throwing a steel ball at it, under stress it finally shattered after so many attempts on stage.
However, that rear quarter window panel shattered as well when he threw the ball at it during the presentation, which leads me to believe that Franz either didn’t throw the steel ball hard enough during the R&D testing phase and/or through it too hard during the keynote.
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I mentioned earlier my questions over the stainless’s durability, particularly because the mallet they used was rubber. If you couldn’t tell visually, it’s also evidenced by the lack of paint scratching that would naturally occur hitting the metal door (aluminum presumably if from a new F150) if the stage demonstration.
It’s curious in this pre-presentation test they have a padded blanket protecting the body of the car from the metal ball. It makes me question how impervious the material is to hard metal objects.
I don’t doubt the material is more durable than conventional galvanized steel body panels, certainly aluminum (now used on Ford trucks), but I think their marketing likely unrealistic. While it may serve to protect from small bumps with plastic bumpers and such, a lot collisions involve metal-on-metal and with far more force than someone swinging a rubber mallet. I don’t doubt the glass is stronger and the on-stage incident was bad luck (or maybe a marketing ploy, though Elon’s reaction seemed genuine). At the end of the day I think a possibly-but probably-limited-bullet-proof-body and stronger than normal won’t be a strong decision factor amongst potential buyers.
While apparently it is possible to make some repairs to stainless body panels, something I wasn’t really aware of other than re-graining to possibly remove scratches, it seems dent removal is pretty limited. I think the real problem is stainless repair is an extremely niche skill with very few people able to do it- therefore very expensive. This is already an issue when it comes to aluminum body work and an even greater issue when it comes to Tesla Certified body shops.
Aluminum currently costs more than 3x more than galvanized steel. Stainless can cost up to 10x+ than galvanized steel. Stainless is also very difficult to work with, which probably explains all the straight edges on the CYBERTRUCK and DMC-12. Considering existing Tesla parts and repair costs, I imagine repairing a CYBERTRUCK body will be very expensive and be reflected in the insurance costs... especially on the 2.9 sec 0-60 top trim model.
I’d also think on an electric car especially. you’d want to save weight to increase efficiency. Maybe the increased strength of stainless ultimately pays off in the end weight wise or to achieve the desired towing/cargo capacity, but I’d think using an aluminum design as many other manufacturers have adopted would be cheaper, lighter, and therefore more efficient.
Theres also questions to be answered about towing efficiencies. Tests of EV’s towing haven’t yielded great results thus far. Range typically is dramatically reduced, which also occurs to ICE vehicles though not to the same degree and refueling is a bit easier than recharging. Range carrying a heavy payload also something in question. That said, I doubt many many buyers of the Tesla will actually be carrying or towing heavy loads.
Given the weight of stainless and batteries, not to mention those tires with massive sidewalls, I have trouble believing it rides anywhere close to “like it’s on rails”. I’m also curious why with presumably a very similar trimotor drivetrain to the new Roadster, why the truck is $70k and the roadster is $200-250k. Makes the roadster seem like a poor value or that the truck is underpriced.
I’m sure the truck will sell amongst a niche of buyers- young, tech oriented people..., it just seems given Tesla’s situation they’d want to build something to actually compete in the pickup market. Again from a business prospective (if prices are correct), even if the truck sold well, unlike the conventional competition this is likely a low profit vehicle. I almost think a higher price tag would give it more of an exclusivity factor. Then again, for all we know Tesla could be playing games with price like including “gas and maintenance savings”. It would be cool however if they are anticipating technological advances to have substantially cheaper batteries by 2021/2022. Other than potential battery tech breakthroughs (that surely will be seen in other cars) this seems like a missed opportunity and the stock reflects it.
Theres a number of big fumbles Tesla has made over the years that affected their business significantly, the 420 tweet, attempting to over-automate the Model 3 assembly line causing “production hell” (ultimately following proven industry convention of manufacturing process), promising a $35k Model 3 when that probably wasn’t necessary but then had to strive to deliver (likely losing money), a period of constant price adjustments promoting uncertainty, the silly gull wing doors on the X that wasted tons of time and money, etc. I think the CYBERTRUCK will likely be added to that list based solely on missed opportunity.
I don’t think many consider the X attractive, the Y release was a largely considered disappointing (they won’t even post pre-orders), and now this truck... meanwhile the S and X are getting very old. I’m not sure why some of these decisions are made and I find it at least a little concerning.
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I do not know if it is iOS 13 or not, but recently I've been having lots of troubles with Siri and BT integration with my Xs and my X1. I do not have carplay.
Musk is claiming 146,000 Cybertrucks have been pre-ordered within a three day timeframe, that’s a pretty stout number since the keynote, considering their stock allegedly dropped after the whole window shatter debacle.
One thing I also forgot to mention during the presentation, was the constant jabs at Ford, when Musk made a comment about being ‘built tough’ when referring to the Cybertruck after the sledge hammer demo and also Tesla debuted a video of the Cybertruck was physically pulling a F150 ‘uphill’. (Aside from the Cybertruck V.S. Porsche dig race).
Anyways, I’ve never really followed Tesla all _that_ much, sort of intrigued of the technology they’re offering, but more than now, I’m curious to see what the Cybertruck can offer given the notoriety it’s receiving in the last 48 hours.
One thing I also forgot to mention during the presentation, was the constant jabs at Ford, when Musk made a comment about being ‘built tough’ when referring to the Cybertruck after the sledge hammer demo and also Tesla debuted a video of the Cybertruck was physically pulling a F150 ‘uphill’. (Aside from the Cybertruck V.S. Porsche dig race).
Anyways, I’ve never really followed Tesla all _that_ much, sort of intrigued of the technology they’re offering, but more than now, I’m curious to see what the Cybertruck can offer given the notoriety it’s receiving in the last 48 hours.