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Phil Adams

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 15, 2022
17
8
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help please.
I have PPC G5 running 10.4.11. I kept it with Tiger as all my old work files and applications work with it. Seldom needed but can’t be dispensed with.
Is there a more modern machine that will run Tiger? Is there any point?
I don’t have room for 2 systems.
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
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Phil Adams

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 15, 2022
17
8
Thanks for the reply joevt,
What would happen if I got a Mac Pro and put the hard drive from the G5 in, could I boot from that do you reckon.
I’ve seen threads (I have searched for the answers, honest) that talk of cloning drives, but I already have a drive with everything on. Apparently the early MPs can with Tiger pre installed and there were no install discs to buy.
I suppose if it comes to it I’ll just end up with a MP, and the G5 if it all goes wrong.
 

foodandart

macrumors newbie
Jul 9, 2018
13
28
Portsmouth, N.H.
A MacPro1,1 to 3,1 can run Tiger w/o issues. You probably won't be able to swap the drive from the G5 since that was a PPC system - from what I remember, the OS installers would select either Intel or PPC drivers depending on the hardware - but not both.

Apps, OTOH, were universal binaries and could be transferred no problem. No matter what, you are looking at a new install of the OS if you go to a MacPro.

I still have my Tiger disks that came with my MacPro1,1 - Will be in and out for the next few days, but can dig around and see if I can find a place to upload them, if you need the disk images. Might also try and poke around at macintoshrepository, they have tons of stuff.

TBH, and this sounds farfectched, but you may find that Snow Leopard with Rosetta will work for your old apps as well. If you need classic support, Sheepshaver does the trick. Whatever you look for, at a minimum aim for a MP3,1 as it has the greatest adaptability and widest range of OSes it can run.

Edited to add: A secondary path here.. if you do opt for a MP3,1 - https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-10-4.413958/page-2?post=5053921#post-5053921
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,365
11,505
Is there a more modern machine that will run Tiger? [...]
This thread lists Intel Macs capable of running Tiger, either officially (i.e. they were sold with Tiger) or unofficially. The 2008 Mac Pro (3,1) is one of the machines that can run Tiger unofficially, for instance.


[...] There might be better emulators? QEMU? I haven't checked. Maybe one of them can do Mac OS X 10.4.11?
If the applications to be run are universal binaries, virtualising the Intel version of Tiger will be easier and much faster than emulating a PPC machine to run the PPC version, for which PearPC and QEMU are worth looking at.
Even if the apps aren’t universal, Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard can run PPC apps on Intel using Rosetta, so I’d always try virtualisation on Intel first.

Apparently the early MPs can with Tiger pre installed and there were no install discs to buy.
The 2006 and 2007 Mac Pros came with Tiger preinstalled and there are no retail install discs for the client version. There are, however, the machine-specific grey discs delivered with the system to reinstall the OS and bundled applications.
And there is a retail, universal binary version of Tiger Server, version 10.4.7 build 8K1079, that will install on both compatible PPC and Intel Macs.

A MacPro1,1 to 3,1 can run Tiger w/o issues. [...]
Right. You'll need to coax Tiger onto the 3,1 though as @joevt said and you need the stock ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT GPU if you want graphics acceleration.

[...] from what I remember, the OS installers would select either Intel or PPC drivers depending on the hardware - but not both.
In the case of Tiger client, the PPC and Intel versions are totally separate from each other, with separate install discs. The PPC version doesn't run on an Intel Mac and the Intel version doesn't run on a PPC Mac. The exception is that universal binary version of Tiger Server.

Leopard, on the other hand, is a universal binary and there's just one installer which works on both PPC and Intel Macs. A copy of Leopard installed on a PPC Mac will boot on an Intel Mac and vice versa, because drivers for both architectures are always included.
 
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Phil Adams

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 15, 2022
17
8
Great, thanks folks. Really appreciate your input. Sad thing is I’m not a tech guy, and a good deal of your advice is over my head.
The guy who set the G5 up for me, unfortunately dead now?, installed 10.4 as the software that was available could be installed without online registration. I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether this is legal or ethical. Therefore updating the CS and other apps I don’t think is a viable option.
I need to keep access to the existing files for work, I’ve retired now so it will only be occasional, but nevertheless necessary. My bright idea was to upgrade to a MP and be able to run my old apps on it in Tiger, but if this won’t work then I need a drastic rethink. I am concerned that the G5 will die at some point, either physically or technically.
 
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PowerPCFan

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2022
297
105
Maybe you can get Ubuntu, Adelie, or Debian (different linuxes) on your G5. I love retro computers and did this to my PMG4 and it works great! Good idea to make use of the computer. I'm glad you figured out your problem. I once had a problem similar to that.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,365
11,505
I need to keep access to the existing files for work, I’ve retired now so it will only be occasional, but nevertheless necessary.
Very good point.

Most importantly, do you have backup copies of your files somewhere else (e.g. on an external hard drive or another machine)? I'm asking because you don't want to lose anything in case the hard drive in the G5 dies. If something else in the G5 dies you can connect the hard drive to another machine and rescue the data... but if the hard drive dies, things get nasty.

My bright idea was to upgrade to a MP and be able to run my old apps on it in Tiger, but if this won’t work then I need a drastic rethink. I am concerned that the G5 will die at some point, either physically or technically.
There's a few options I can think of:

1. Buy another PowerPC Mac and clone everything (i.e. Tiger, apps, files) from the G5's hard drive onto it.
A Mac mini G4, iBook G4 or PowerBook G4 can be had cheaply (from e.g. eBay), doesn't require lots of space and will run your software just like the G5, albeit more slowly. That way, you have a spare machine with an exact copy of what's on your G5, ready to be used if the G5 decides to call it quits.

2. Buy an early Intel Mac, such as a Mac Pro that can run Tiger or Snow Leopard.
Adobe CS and other PowerPC-native software will run on there thanks to something called "Rosetta". So you'll still be able to access your files. The thing is, you probably need to reinstall Adobe CS and the other software on the Mac Pro (you can try just copying them over from the G5, but some apps may need to be properly reinstalled to work). Do you have the discs necessary to reinstall your software?

3. Do you have access to a more modern machine, either a Mac or a PC? If so, you could try installing a more modern version of your software (a trial version would be sufficient) on that and check if it can open your old files. (If so, you might want to convert the files to a format [PDF?] which can preserve the content but be opened without requiring the software used to create the original files.) But please try this with a copy of your files to ensure the originals are left untouched.

4. Get everything that is on your G5 (Tiger, apps, files) onto a more modern machine and try to run it as-is in an emulator such as PearPC or QEMU.
This will allow you to conveniently access everything you had on your G5 in a window on a modern machine, but it will be very slow and isn't easy to set up.

5. Virtualise an Intel copy of Tiger or Snow Leopard on a more modern machine.
This will be much faster than option 4, but isn't quite straightforward to set up either. You'd also need to get your software and files into the virtualised environment before you can work with them.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,365
11,505
Maybe you can get Ubuntu, Adelie, or Debian (different linuxes) on your G5. I love retro computers and did this to my PMG4 and it works great!
The OP stated they need to preserve access to work-related files, which is easiest by also preserving access to the software that created them. Adobe CS doesn't run on PPC Linux... :)
 

foodandart

macrumors newbie
Jul 9, 2018
13
28
Portsmouth, N.H.
Ah, Phil.. Okay. Yeah.. Is it only CS that you're using? What are the main apps you want to maintain use of?
Adobe has released activation keys for CS2 as they closed their server ports to the old systems, (actually very kind of them!) so getting an upgrade to CS2 is your best option. Can find it here. https://www.macintoshrepository.org/12059-adobe-creative-suite-2-cs2- (serials are in the ReadMe) Works on Tiger in a MacPro like a dream. If that is the only Adobe program that you've got, a MacPro1,1 will be the answer. I can copy my OEM Intel MP1,1 disks and upload them to the macintoshrepository - or send you a copy.

I totally hear you on the tech flying over your head.. Keeping it dead simple is best. MacPro1,1 with 8GB of RAM will be more than enough for what you want to do.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,365
11,505
Adobe has released activation keys for CS2 as they closed their server ports to the old systems, (actually very kind of them!) so getting an upgrade to CS2 is your best option. Can find it here. https://www.macintoshrepository.org/12059-adobe-creative-suite-2-cs2- (serials are in the ReadMe) Works on Tiger in a MacPro like a dream.
CS2 apps are PowerPC-native so will run through Rosetta on an Intel Mac (i.e. require Snow Leopard or an earlier version of Mac OS X). CS3 were the first universal binary Adobe apps.
 
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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
28,830
26,942
Ah, Phil.. Okay. Yeah.. Is it only CS that you're using? What are the main apps you want to maintain use of?
Adobe has released activation keys for CS2 as they closed their server ports to the old systems, (actually very kind of them!) so getting an upgrade to CS2 is your best option. Can find it here. https://www.macintoshrepository.org/12059-adobe-creative-suite-2-cs2- (serials are in the ReadMe) Works on Tiger in a MacPro like a dream. If that is the only Adobe program that you've got, a MacPro1,1 will be the answer. I can copy my OEM Intel MP1,1 disks and upload them to the macintoshrepository - or send you a copy.

I totally hear you on the tech flying over your head.. Keeping it dead simple is best. MacPro1,1 with 8GB of RAM will be more than enough for what you want to do.
Just to comment on this since Macintosh Repository seems to believe that Adobe is generously offering free CS2 serials.

Adobe is not.

The serials that are provided and which also activate the product are intended for Adobe CS2 customers who actually purchased the programs. As mentioned, the activations servers for CS2 have been shut down. So these SNs were provided so that legitimate CS2 purchasers could reinstall CS2. Adobe is not offering CS2 for free. You have to pay for it.

Unfortunately, there were some bloggers out there that told the public that CS2 was free in 2013. No one wanted to hear Adobe's response and so the misinformation that it's free gets repeated. Since the SNs are out there and it's an older product, enforcing this seems not be something Adobe is interested in.

I am bringing this up only to make people aware that CS2 is not free, despite it being posted in many places on the internet. What people do with that information is up to them.


Adobe scientist Dov Isaacs clarifies:

On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated ...

You have heard wrong! Adobe is absolutely not providing free copies of CS2!

What is true is that Adobe is terminating the activation servers for CS2 and that for existing licensed users of CS2 who need to reinstall their software, copies of CS2 that don't require activation but do require valid serial numbers are available. (Special serial numbers are provided on the page for each product download.) See <http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1114930>.
 
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Phil Adams

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 15, 2022
17
8
Thanks for your help folks.
I’ve found for sale on eBay a MP 1.1 which is currently running Snow Leopard, but the seller still has the grey Tiger installer discs. Would this enable me to access my old files or am I just kidding myself?
Thanks.
PS, the MP is a 2.0 quad, with a couple of issues, nothing major. Decent ram and 4 hard drives, but if it doesn’t work for me then I’m stuck with a lower spec machine when I could have got an 8 core 3.1 for not much more cash.
 

Phil Adams

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 15, 2022
17
8
Just to close this off, I thought long and hard, and decided that even if I managed to find a MP with Tiger, or found a Tiger installer to backdate a 1.1 or 2.1, I would still be unable to run my software on it as I bought the G5 as it was and don’t have the licences to update.
So…..
I decided to leave the G5 as a spare and have bought from eBay a MP 3.1 running Sierra.
I might never have another job to artwork, and if I did I’d just shift the G5 back onto the desk.
In any event, I would imagine that if I got a compatible CS (6?) I could possibly open and edit the files in Illustrator.
Thanks for all the advice folks, you’ve been brilliant.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
28,830
26,942
In any event, I would imagine that if I got a compatible CS (6?) I could possibly open and edit the files in Illustrator.
Both Illustrator and Photoshop formats have changed very little over the years. And when they have, Adobe has made it so that you can still open older files AND downsave back to really old versions (probably older than what you have on the G5 now).

There are also workarounds, such as saving as EPS or PDF and opening either or in Illustrator. You don't necessarily need to keep using AI.

The biggest differences over time have been with InDesign's format. It changed a lot between 1.0, 2.0, CS and up to CS4. If you aren't using InDesign there's no real need to worry.

You might be better served in the long run though by choosing a common format (such as EPS/TIF/JPG) rather than continuing to use version specific formats (AI/PSD). TIF files, for instance, can be layered and support transparency - just like Photoshop files.
 
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Phil Adams

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 15, 2022
17
8
I actually used Quark most. Simple stationery layouts, seldom graphics or images. Amazing what you can create in quark you try. I use in design sometimes but I’m more comfortable with Quark.
I’m looking out for both Quark and CS, but need to get the Mac Pro first.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
28,830
26,942
I actually used Quark most. Simple stationery layouts, seldom graphics or images. Amazing what you can create in quark you try. I use in design sometimes but I’m more comfortable with Quark.
I’m looking out for both Quark and CS, but need to get the Mac Pro first.
You can run up to QXP 8.x on the G5. That'll also run on Snow Leopard Macs as well. The one issue with Quark is that you can only save back one version. So, you need either Markztools or each version of QXP to get back to the version on your G5 if you want to downsave.

For the record, I have 23 years in graphic design. The great majority of those years have been QuarkXPress from version 4 to QXP 2020, although I did skip a few versions. Version 3.x was in design school.

I only know InDesign because as the manager of my one to two person section at a small newspaper I could change programs. I was never going to learn the program on my own so I figured I'd just learn it while getting paid to do so. That was in 2011. In 2018 when the company I worked for was sold, I ended up at a new company that was using QuarkXPress 2016. The fact that I had QXP experience on my resume was one of the main reasons I was hired. We're working in QXP 2020 now.

So, I'm fluent in both apps. :D
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,831
2,420
Los Angeles, CA
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help please.
I have PPC G5 running 10.4.11. I kept it with Tiger as all my old work files and applications work with it. Seldom needed but can’t be dispensed with.
Is there a more modern machine that will run Tiger? Is there any point?
I don’t have room for 2 systems.
On the Mac Pro side of things, your best bet is an original Mac Pro; though, most of the video cards that came stock with that Mac are unreliable and will inevitably fail. I'm not sure that any of the newer video cards have drivers for Tiger. So, that might be an issue. I'm also unsure as whether or not you're running PowerPC apps versus Intel apps. If you're running PowerPC apps, then a Power Mac G5 on Tiger is your better bet anyway.
 
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