Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

HVDynamo

macrumors 6502a
Feb 21, 2011
689
1,037
Minnesota
why wouldn't the Gov't go "after" the app owners or the company the scopes are from and NOT the app stores themselves?


Doesn't make much sense....then again government.

Because that's how they will know who owns the app. They are literally asking for the App owners info so they can go after them.
 

webbuzz

macrumors 68020
Jul 24, 2010
2,356
7,553
Wow, sounds draconian, totally anti-privacy, anti-liberty and anti-gun! This could only happen because Authoritarian Obama is President!

Oops…. wait….
That's some Rachel Maddow level of tinfoil. It has nothing to do with firearms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacNeb

tito2020

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2011
865
295
why wouldn't the Gov't go "after" the app owners or the company the scopes are from and NOT the app stores themselves?


Doesn't make much sense....then again government.
Apple & google approved this app so the government has everyright to go after them
 

unplugme71

macrumors 68030
May 20, 2011
2,827
754
Earth
If the government had reason to believe the perpetrator of a murder was staying in a given hotel on a given night, I could completely understand them asking the hotel to turn over the names of every guest at that hotel on that night. I would not understand the government asking for the list of guests at every hotel in every city for the past 2 years as that does not narrow down the hunt for the suspect.

I am 100% against the broad "give us all the information" demands so someone can go on a fishing expedition. If 58,000 people downloaded the app from Google, there are probably at least 57,999 innocent people on that list.

And the list never needs to leave the hotel. You lock down the hotel, grab the list, go door to door with the master key.
 

SteveW928

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2010
1,834
1,380
Victoria, B.C. Canada
For the rest of the world? Surely you are leading the deaths caused by guns.

Don't have time to do the research right now, but I highly doubt that. There has been an uptick of a particular type of crime, but overall the rates have been dropping. You're simply a victim of the MSM.

Do you know how many people I know with a gun in europe? ... I could count all those people on my fingers. Now, lets take this to USA and almost every other person has it.

I'd love to see that statistic, but in my experience, no they don't. In certain parts of the country, it might be likely a lot of people have them for hunting or home security. Other places are much like Europe (as you say) where they are rare. (Well, then there is Switzerland, where everyone has one?)

It was there for a reason. But back then the times were different. The amendment needs to be amended :D :D :D

It was there to help guarantee the rest of the rights! Is that somehow over now? Please explain!

But, you didn't address the rest of my comment. The guns have always been here. What changed?

... all this NRA is good is just CRAP. you need the ** right to bear arms ** removing from your constitution ...

Just FYI... the NRA was actually the group who developed and promoted the gun restrictions in the first place. They also advocate proper training, etc. I think you're confused a bit. Again, as above, a victim of the MSM.

But, yes, the proper procedure would be to remove the amendment from the constitution. The people pushing the anti-gun narrative know there is no chance of that (at least in the short-term, until they've had enough brainwashing time via the media and schools), so that's are trying other sneaky methods.

However, no specific crime has been committed here. They’re on a fishing expedition to try and find people who may have done something wrong.

Let me fix that for you... we're well past that. The fishing expeditions are now trying to find people who they think might do something wrong someday!

It’s bad enough that the Feds are demanding this information, regardless of why. What is much more concerning is that they feel comfortable and warranted in doing so.

Of course, we have our former CIA director (Brennan) who said recently, "People, you know, are innocent until alleged to be involved in some kind of criminal activity." So, times, they are a changing...
(I doubt that was a slip, but indicative of his thinking. And, note, the interviewers don't even question it, or seem to catch it!)

Also. Assault weapons are already illegal and have been for 100 years. What is legal are one shot one pull rifles that look like assault rifles.

I'm not sure that is actually the case. My understanding is just that the licensing involved makes it so expensive, few have them. But, yeah, the MSM regularly misreports that, calling anything and everything assault weapons and confusing semiautomatic with automatic, etc.

Anyway if it wasn’t for us and our guns you would all be speaking German.

It sometimes seems that the masses are ignorant of history and/or even a basic ability to think more than a few moments into the future from their present state of being. It's like... 'Everything is kinda OK for me right now. Sure, go ahead and take my rights away.'
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacNeb

VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,383
14,254
Scotland
why wouldn't the Gov't go "after" the app owners or the company the scopes are from and NOT the app stores themselves?


Doesn't make much sense....then again government.

then again a Republican administration.
[doublepost=1567980942][/doublepost]
Our worthless government is back to harassing private business owners...

Our worthless Trump administration you mean.
[doublepost=1567981282][/doublepost]
...
I just checked: Apple has a Visa debit card number and an address for my account. Now what I don't know is whether Apple can access that information (and hand it to the government) without me entering the password for my AppleId; Apple doesn't have that password (not even in encrypted form, unless their IT is run by criminally insane idiots, which I doubt). But whatever Apple does, VPN wont help you.
...

That's why I buy gift cards to top up my Apple accounts. Don't like even Apple prying.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,383
14,254
Scotland
It has little to do with any particular party or president. If you think otherwise, you just haven't been paying attention.

I have been. The GOP goes on about reducing government and protecting personal liberty, and then does exactly the opposite. The fact that Democrats are also complicit makes little difference: the party directly responsible for this is the GOP. The buck stops with Trump. FWIW I do remember the days when the GOP actually did want to protect personal liberty.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,615
10,920
This isn’t Russia yet. The US Govt has zero authority to “order” anyone to do anything. Come back with a search warrant.
Law is not set to protect the weak (citizens and disadvantaged groups), but to protect the power and authority of the strong, for the most part.
 

SteveW928

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2010
1,834
1,380
Victoria, B.C. Canada
I have been. The GOP goes on about reducing government and protecting personal liberty, and then does exactly the opposite. The fact that Democrats are also complicit makes little difference: the party directly responsible for this is the GOP. The buck stops with Trump. FWIW I do remember the days when the GOP actually did want to protect personal liberty.

They both have their pet areas of personal liberty they want to protect/expand, and those they want to stifle.
But, aside from that, part of the point I was making is that the infringements on personal liberty are very bi-partisan in creation/support and also operating a level above the parties (think 3-letter agencies).
 
  • Like
Reactions: VulchR and MacNeb

webbuzz

macrumors 68020
Jul 24, 2010
2,356
7,553
I have been. The GOP goes on about reducing government and protecting personal liberty, and then does exactly the opposite. The fact that Democrats are also complicit makes little difference: the party directly responsible for this is the GOP. The buck stops with Trump. FWIW I do remember the days when the GOP actually did want to protect personal liberty.
lol...That's not how DOJ, CPI, HSI are with ITAR violations. Orange Man Bad!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacNeb

Silver78

macrumors 6502a
Aug 24, 2013
523
275
Denmark
You can buy guns no problem but an app is a no go!!?
The problem is not the app the problem is someone unknown have their fingers in the gun manufacturers cookie jar.
 

webbuzz

macrumors 68020
Jul 24, 2010
2,356
7,553
You can buy guns no problem but an app is a no go!!?
The problem is not the app the problem is someone unknown have their fingers in the gun manufacturers cookie jar.
ATN doesn't manufacture firearms, they are an optics manufacturer, which includes night vision scopes that fall under certain export controls.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacNeb

Freida

Suspended
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,868
I don't know what MSM is but I take a guess that you refer the media's manipulation.
Anyway, of course USA is the leading in gun deaths. How can you even question that?
For the rest, we won't have constructive conversation (definitely not in a text form) so as I said before - lets talk about something else. :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41488081


Don't have time to do the research right now, but I highly doubt that. There has been an uptick of a particular type of crime, but overall the rates have been dropping. You're simply a victim of the MSM.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,615
10,920
But what happens when the government can place surveillance cameras on every street, and automated facial recognition/AI can monitor everyone's comings and goings? Now, the hurdle for being "sufficiently suspicious" becomes very low, maybe dangerously so.
Yet this is exactly what Chinese government and Communist Party is doing against their citizens. And the recognition level is high enough that police can trace down every single Chinese mainland citizen participating Hong Kong protest and arrest them at arrival.
If US Government pushes this agenda forward, who can tell what damage it can be done.
[doublepost=1567996797][/doublepost]
I don't know what MSM is
MSM=Main Stream Media. Wall Street Journal, NYTimes, BBC, to name a few.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveW928

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Other places are much like Europe (as you say) where they are rare. (Well, then there is Switzerland, where everyone has one?)
In Switzerland, every man old enough to serve in the army (and not a criminal, mad, etc. ) has a gun and ammunition in his home, in case the country is invaded. The ammunition is counted. You don't want to know how big the **** is that you find yourself in if one single piece of ammunition is missing.
 

1146331

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2018
258
551
Wow, sounds draconian, totally anti-privacy, anti-liberty and anti-gun! This could only happen because Authoritarian Obama is President!

Oops…. wait….
Well I found the person who can't comprehend the issue here!

The US Government is overreaching here, they have no right to get the names of the users of this app even if the scope was illegally exported. Unlike Obama who was selling guns to the Mexican drug cartels [Fast & Furious), it appears that President Trump's administration is trying to enforce our weapon exports.

President Trump is not trying to get rid of the 2nd amendment right, unlike Obama. The US government is violating privacy here though.

So nice attempt to be snide while talking about what you clearly know nothing about.
[doublepost=1568027764][/doublepost]
In Switzerland, every man old enough to serve in the army (and not a criminal, mad, etc. ) has a gun and ammunition in his home, in case the country is invaded. The ammunition is counted. You don't want to know how big the **** is that you find yourself in if one single piece of ammunition is missing.
There should be no fine if they are required to have a gun. What a stupid law.

Then again, when I was in Afghanistan (US Marine Corps), we had our ammo counted monthly and trust me, it was not worth the consequences of losing a round.
 

trainwrecka

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2007
516
709
Earth
Think about it: the company that made the scope didn't illegally export it. People who bought it exported it.

They are going after the "app owners". They're getting information on who "bought" the app.


This isn't a gun issue. It's an export control issue. Many things are export controlled, including IR cameras, fast computers and GPUs, machine tools, encryption software and hardware, computer firewalls, semiconductor equipment, etc. These are under an international agreement called the Wassenaar Arrangement.

A similar situation is a pile of GPUs ends up in Iran and the government obtains the IPs of people who downloaded the drivers for them.

Thank you for adding some clarity.
 

Spizike9

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2011
216
390
I'm all for proper gun control, but this isn't that. This is a privacy violation that happens to involve guns.

They asked for information on people who downloaded a gun app, which is way too broadly tailored to balance people's expectations of privacy with real gun controls.


What do you think universal background checks are? The government wants to compile a list of all gun ownership that way they can confiscate I mean “buy them back” when the time is right. Ask the Russians how that went under Stalin or Chinese under Zedong. Even Tiananmen square didn’t happen all that long ago. Communism/government over reach is a scary thing. I give our country another 50-75 years and we’re there.
 

Spizike9

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2011
216
390
Yeah - But there is an expectation that the government to look into suspicious behavior. People with guns make up 100% of gun related crimes.

That comment is really one of the most derp worth comments out there.
then again a Republican administration.
[doublepost=1567980942][/doublepost]

Our worthless Trump administration you mean.
[doublepost=1567981282][/doublepost]

That's why I buy gift cards to top up my Apple accounts. Don't like even Apple prying.


You think they can't track where that gift card was bought and track that card. So unless you’re paying for those in cash you’re really not doing much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: webbuzz

Spizike9

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2011
216
390
Yeah - But there is an expectation that the government to look into suspicious behavior. People with guns make up 100% of gun related crimes.

People who drive cars and drink alcohol also contribute to 100% of drunk driving deaths. So I suspect you’d be ok with the government peeking into your life since I’m sure at one point in your life you’ve driven a car and drank alcohol. Also read an article where they surveyed inmates and 100% of them had seeked out to look at pornography in their lives and one point or another. Does that mean the government should go look into everybody’s lives who at one point or another have viewed pornography? It’s a slippery slope once you start painting everyone with a broad brush.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.