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Waiting for the 2020 MBP
- Thread starter Dulcimer
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I tried to looked over the Intel roadmap but instead I got more confused... So we are expecting a 10nm integration for MBP 13'' next year right?
I believe ice lake is Intel's 10nm chip
https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-ice-lake
Some 10mn chips appear to be already out, though the ones that apple uses (45w for instance) are not and I'm not sure when they'll hit the market - maybe 2020?
I don’t believe Ice Lake H 10nm/45W is even on the roadmap. The 2020 Comet Lake H 45W is supposed to be on 14nm. Leaked Intel roadmaps seem to indicate that it will be a 8-core/10-core part with the same micro architecture as Coffee Lake.
Everything points to 2021/22 before we see 10nm @ 45W for now. Probably a good time to buy now as it seems that 14nm is here to stay at least around another 2 years, the roadmap seem to indicate two further 14nm release before we go to 10nm for 45W.
For the 13” however, I think there is availability of 10nm 28w CPU’s already so should see them first half of 2020, so maybe worth holding out if looking to buy a 13”, with the additional benefit of a potential magic keyboard.
I've not really followed the move to 10mn, so I'll not be surprised over the delay, I guess I assumed that with the rollout of ice lake in some form we'd see the 45w variant, but I guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Only hope for better CPUs on MBP is that AMD makes them. But AMD is slow to move to the mobile market.
That would be the final blow to Intel. I really hope that AMD has some plans for laptops as well.
That would be the final blow to Intel. I really hope that AMD has some plans for laptops as well.
AMD seem to punch below their weight for mobile chipsets though. Their chip in the Surface Laptop 3 seems to struggle with energy efficiency and compatibility/optimisation if not raw performance. The Intel versions seem to be the ones people are after, which is pretty surprising given 'Ice Lake' is basically Kaby Lake refresh built on a ~10nm process with a few of the usual generational tweaks and optimisations (i.e. it's barely more than yet-another-14nm-lake). Though they aren't quite there this generation, it also seems Intel is now making strides with the iGPUs which will hurt AMD and the low end dGPU market.
Yes, we'll see if the second generation at 10nm allows them to crank the GHz back up. The IPC is good, its just they can't get the clock rate up.
Yeah the big issue with 10nm is yields, and it seems that current yields can't justify 45W H series for now.
On one hand it sucks because 10nm 45W i9 CPUs would make for crazy good improvements (getting close-ish to the current 9900k desktop CPU I think) and a potential big redesign but on the other hand it also means no need to wait for next year's refresh if you want to buy now.
If only AMD made good mobile CPUs.
Are the low frequency connected to the yield or is it a consequence of some weakness in the 10 nm design / process that will not improve even if yield improves?
I'm not savvy enough to give you a strong answer to that question, but clock speed is indeed related to yield quality, that's often how you get generational improvements in performance on the same architecture. Slight improvements to the process improve the yields, which in turn make binning more viable.
So assuming yields improve, clock speeds should follow. But honestly intel's 10nm is such a cluster**** I would not make any upgrading plans based on their roadmap. They might jump straight to 7nm for specific products, and if it turns out there aren't any 10nm 45W CPUs by early 2021 like most people seem to think there's a significant chance that's what they'll do imo.
I really hope besides the new keyboard, they will also include the option for additional RAM into the 13/14“ version. This new version will then replace my Huawei Matebook X.
I do agree with this, but one problem I'd point out is that AMD's power management is not as good as Intel's. To be specific, if you have an eight core 45W chip in a laptop, AMD is going to be less efficient at depowering some of those cores when they aren't needed, which makes a pretty big difference in the battery life of laptops.
Definitely, but this is a great partnership for Microsoft. AMD didn't have anything new ready for the mobile space--they don't have the manpower honestly. So this chip is a custom adaptation of an existing AMD APU using last-generation tech from AMD.
But I can tell you why MS went with them. They have their hands on a Zen 2 + Navi APU, which will go in the Xbox Scarlett. This will be the part Microsoft has AMD adapt for their next Surface APU, and Microsoft will also be working on it, specifically with regards to power management. This won't let the Surface play Xbox Scarlett games--it will have to be cut down considerably to meet the Surface's thermal requirements--but MS can probably get a theoretical Forza Horizon 5 working on it for a launch trailer.
Best case scenario is that AMD resells this part to Apple in 2021, and Apple does the grit work on power management. Best-best case scenario is they kick it to TSMC's 6nm process.
Would Apple be able to use Thunderbolt 3 with an AMD CPU? My understanding is that Intel owns that and would need to license it out.
It's available to anyone royalty free.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)#Royalty_situation
Additionally soon-burgeoning USB 4 effectively eliminates the need for TB 3 as a dedicated thing, it's basically baked in.
I thought that was such an interesting move when i first heard about that. USB and Thunderbolt will effectively be merged to a single standard. Which i personally think is great because it leans more into the "one cable for everything" thing that the industry is going for with the USB C shaped port.
Maybe, there are appropriate 6 core U series chips but they only come with UHD graphics so either a 6 core model would have better CPU but lesser GPU performance, or an additional discrete GPU would be needed. I think it would make sense to redesign the high end 13" model into a bigger and more powerful 14" with dedicated graphics, as many 13" class Windows machines offer dedicated graphics now, but we will see.
I cannot imagine that they will do 13 base and 14 higher end. I think they will stick to two sizes for the MBP. Thanks for the update on the CPUs. Then I Hope for H1 2020.
Hopefully Apple goes 6 core with a redesigned 14" model and a dGPU. I would actually consider that model over the 16" MBP. It would make sense to go 14/16 with dGPU on MBP and 13/(maybe 15) Intel UHD with the MBA and have those lines be the thin and light models.
2020 will be very interesting for the Mac lines
2020 will be very interesting for the Mac lines
it was sounding like fall, the big thing will be comet lake CPUs will allowLPDDR4x and the screen is rumored to be going LED.