Warning: deleting iOS Music app deletes your Music library

[zorinlynx]

This sort of crap is why Apple should never have allowed deletion of stock apps on their devices.

 

[Paddle1]

If I’m not mistaken in iOS 10 “deleting” actually meant hiding first party apps. In iOS 11 they actually get (at least partially) deleted.

 

[peterpayne]

What did you expect? I'm not saying this is "right" but it's completely "expected" coming from Apple.

 

[Shirasaki]

Before moving on to all subsequent long posts any further, let me explain something for you, based on recent discovery.

Let me offer something further about risk and courtesy: how about before deleting 120 GB of music you give the user at least some kind of indication that you’re going to do this???! Perhaps even a couple of “Are you sure” confirmations?

There is one, for EVERY SINGLE app that you want to delete. That includes music app as well.

perhaps even accidentally deleted the iOS Music app

You are on iPhone 7+. The steps involved to delete music app is not as straight forward as it was before. First you need to trigger wiggle mode without triggering force touch. Then you need to tap a button, tap confirmation to truly kick an app out of your phone. The only possible explanation is when you are deleting other apps. Even so, delete warning for every single app should give you some time to realize “wait, is this the app I want to get rid of?”.

This tells the user that the music is *NOT* in fact tied to the app.

In iOS 10, maybe it is not tied to the app as in iOS 10, “deleting app” does not remove app from the phone. Only icon is removed. Not sure about the data. Whereas in iOS 11, Apple changes the way stock app holds data and how they are delivered. Now, they will remove the app from system for good, including all of its data. So you remove stock music app, the iTunes library is also gone for good. I admit Apple SHOULD somehow notify users this change though.

This behaviour is anti-consumer.

Apple was constructing a walled garden from day one (at least from iOS 1) And there will be no difference for them to do it one more day. Still, a huge amount of people love Apple products.

It in no way requires the iOS Music app

Well, the way music app manages things is changed, as I said before.

the fact that the iTunes music library is not “tied” to the Music app

Now it is not a “fact” anymore.
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This sort of crap is why Apple should never have allowed deletion of stock apps on their devices.

But we all have seen so many more morons whining “we want to get rid of those stock apps for good!” For years. Now Apple has it, other people will then start to complain. Apple never wins.

 

[zorinlynx]

But we all have seen so many more morons whining “we want to get rid of those stock apps for good!” For years. Now Apple has it, other people will then start to complain. Apple never wins.

The thing is there's always been an easy workaround; put the apps you don't like in a folder on the last page of apps. But no, that wasn't good enough for the OCD crowd.

Stock apps are not the same as apps you install. They're part of the operating system. You're not even really deleting them, just telling the UI "Don't display these app icons." Apple must have added the music deletion code because someone complained about the music still being there when they "only" use Spotify, or whatever.

 

[rafark]

I'm pretty dang sure that no one has accidentally deleted an app by touch-holding on the iOS home screen. As in order to do that, you would need to hold down said app icon, wait for it to start jiggling, tap the "X" at the top left corner of the app icon once it appears, and then confirm the deletion via a pop-up that appears. If anyone manages to "accidentally" do all those steps, then I'd be really surprised.

It can happen. I've pressed the delete button instead of the cancel button by mistake a couple of times.

 

[Shirasaki]

It can happen. I've pressed the delete button instead of the cancel button by mistake a couple of times.

Well, if you arrive that stage, I agree that “accident can happen”.

 

[NoBoMac]

This is nothing new. Pretty clear per Apple's note for iOS 10:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204221

 

[ApfelKuchen]

You know, the whole delete app deletes data thing in iOS is just the opposite of OS X/macOS behavior (deleting app leaves the data behind). So, if someone accustomed to Mac behavior starts using iOS...yeah, they may make an assumption.

In both cases, the delete/don't delete data thing is intended to save people from themselves. On a PC, with (relatively) tons of storage space, leaving the data behind when deleting an app (typically for an app reinstall) is a good thing.

The problem, on an 8GB or 16GB iPhone, is that leaving data behind where it can't be deleted (no file manager to keep things simple and secure) means you're out of storage in very short order. So it gets switched around - delete app deletes data.

My only question is then, "How long have you been using iOS to get accustomed to this behavior?"

 

[simonsi]

I have 3 backups of my music because it’s that important to me, but that doesn’t mean I have access to any of them.

So don't make serious changes when you don't have access to a backup. And don't ignore warning messages.

 

[cynics]

I was under the impression music was stored under “documents and data”.

So if you “offload app” it can be removed without deleting its related data, no?



I could be incorrect (never tried it) but unless the above image found in settings > iPhone storage > music is very misleading I think it’s kind of obvious what will happen if you delete the app.

I’ve been using Apple products so long that this is somewhat obvious to me personally. And without a user accessible file system to this level (to make sure the music files aren’t IN the music app) I would think it would at least lead most to further research prior to deleting the app.

That said I can understand the mistake especially if you don’t use Apple services.

 

[-BigMac-]

This should be a good thread for blocks.

Just for anyone else in my situation - say who might travel a lot - this is a word of significant caution.

Or maybe I shouldn’t try to help the community?

I’m not bothered by Apple fanboy defenders. Look at my post count, join date and upvote count. I’ve been using Macs probably since way before those defenders who couldn’t even be bothered reading my post but felt the need to defend Apple anyway.

Edit. Been using Apple computers since 1986! First family Mac: 1993. Number of Macs owned: about 10. First iPhone: the first that was available in Australia; 3G.

I *was* a fanboy. Now I’m a responsible consumer.

Then proceeds to say maflynn, who is staff and has 30 x his post count, is wrong

 

[GGJstudios]

I just deleted the default iOS Music app from my phone ... - and it wiped my entire (personal) synced music library from my phone;

You should have paid attention when deleting:



And yes, the music on your phone is data related to the Music app, since it is only through the Music app that the data (music) was synced to your phone.

 

[jonnyb098]

WARNING: Water is wet.

How about not being a cheap skate and just pay the $20 per year to BACK UP YOUR MUSIC YOU LOVE SO MUCH!? Then its always safe....unless you love having to plug into a computer and using iTunes to manage music like it’s 2008.

iTunes music library and iCloud Photo Library are by far the most worth it things Apple offers. It’s elimated my and many others needs for a computer and dependence on the horrible beast that iTunes has become.

Love when people complain about paying for this stuff yet waste money on so many other useless things. If a couple bucks a month is too much for everyone to back up their digital lives then your priorities with money are way off.

 

[dk001]

Interesting thread.....

Took my 7+ - it is idle as I am using a Razer.
Never have used Apple Music on this device. App is on the phone. I have Google Play Music setup.
Downloaded a couple of albums from iTunes onto the phone.
Deleted the Music app.
The iTunes stuff vanished. The Google Music wasn’t affected.

Personal opinion but Apple should have been a bit more clear that deleting Apple Music will remove all of your iTunes Music downloads....

 

[inkahauts]

How much clearer can they get? Maybe a bit, but not to much.

It seems to me that the op found the flaw in ios10 where it only hid the stock apps instead of actually deleted them. He had deleted in iOS 10 but since it just hid the stuff, it allowed the data to stay and still be accessed by another app. Since you can now actually delete, the data actually goes too, as it should. Unless Apple starts letting you chose to store the music files in the iCloud Drive separately, I don’t see how this will change, because you are using the music app(iTunes) from your computer to sync to your iOS devices. This is logical no matter how hard the op wants us to believe otherwise...

Another real key should also be, he said the other apps he used to playback his music linked through the music app. Well if the music app isn’t there, why would it still work? If he had put the music on the phone with those apps themselves, then delete those apps would have deleted his collection off his phone...

Maybe they should add an additional line of, this will delete your music library from this phone, when you chose delete this app. That’s as much as I can think of that would make it any different, and possibly more clear.

I also agree, if you love your music that much you have backups. What happens if you break your phone or lose it?

Also, apples closed system makes it easier to understand that all deletion of apps should do the same thing, wipe out all data they use and are used to bring into your phone. You have found the one time (in ios10) that wasn’t the case! That was the outlier, not this...

 

[eoblaed]

Were you so strapped for space that you had to delete a single app from the device?

I can't count the number of people I know that own iPhones. It's a very large number.

I can, however, count the number of people I know that have deleted the Music app from their iPhone: 0

Seems like an odd thing to do. And, yes, I would fully expect the library of data associated with that app to be deleted when you delete the app. When other things are accessing your Music library (that is, the library associated with the Music app), you'll note that you have to give permission to those apps to access it because it's under the purview of a different app (Music).

Sorry this caused stress for you, but #1: there's no surprise at what happened and, #2: deleting a stock app like that just seems weird to begin with ... hard to imagine being that pressed for storage space that it becomes necessary (esp. on a 256GB device).

 

[E.Lizardo]

I'm pretty dang sure that no one has accidentally deleted an app by touch-holding on the iOS home screen. As in order to do that, you would need to hold down said app icon, wait for it to start jiggling, tap the "X" at the top left corner of the app icon once it appears, and then confirm the deletion via a pop-up that appears. If anyone manages to "accidentally" do all those steps, then I'd be really surprised.

THIS. Also,I can't think of a reason to delete it anyway other than space, and I doubt it takes up enough to matter.

 

[dk001]

THIS. Also,I can't think of a reason to delete it anyway other than space, and I doubt it takes up enough to matter.

Apps I do not use I delete.
Rather have a cleaned up set of usable apps.
Personally, I got tired of the iCrap folders.

 

[0014]

I've not read all the responses. But for you to put the music into your phone you must have had to sync it with iTunes.

So where did you think the music would be stored? It's stored within the app data. Same as if you had another music playing app on your phone and had added it to that.

I just deleted my Tidal App that had nearly 12GB of Lossless audio in as I have ended my trial. Funnily enough all the music deleted with it.

I have Extreme Player on my kids iPad. If i delete that app it deletes all the films that are stored on the iPad that have been put in the library in that app.

The ONLY way the data remains on the phone is if you offload the app rather than delete it.

I fail to understand how you can think anything else will happen and I am almost certain it hasn't ever been any other way. Once Apple allowed you to delete the stock apps then deleting the app has always deleted the associated data/library with it.

 

[dk001]

I've not read all the responses. But for you to put the music into your phone you must have had to sync it with iTunes.

So where did you think the music would be stored? It's stored within the app data. Same as if you had another music playing app on your phone and had added it to that.

I just deleted my Tidal App that had nearly 12GB of Lossless audio in as I have ended my trial. Funnily enough all the music deleted with it.

I have Extreme Player on my kids iPad. If i delete that app it deletes all the films that are stored on the iPad that have been put in the library in that app.

The ONLY way the data remains on the phone is if you offload the app rather than delete it.

I fail to understand how you can think anything else will happen and I am almost certain it hasn't ever been any other way. Once Apple allowed you to delete the stock apps then deleting the app has always deleted the associated data/library with it.

That is one aspect of this I do not understand.
I don’t use the Apple Music app.
I download music via iTunes and use a 3rd party app. The Apple Music app does not have to be present.
So why would you assume that your iTunes downloads are automatically deleted if you delete an app you don’t use?

 

[0014]

That is one aspect of this I do not understand.
I don’t use the Apple Music app.
I download music via iTunes and use a 3rd party app. The Apple Music app does not have to be present.
So why would you assume that your iTunes downloads are automatically deleted if you delete an app you don’t use?

The music must be stored in the music app for playback or deleting the Music app wouldn’t delete the library.

If I delete my Spotify app which has nearly 7gb of music in it. Then it will delete the music from it. But if I delete my Music app it won’t delete the music from Spotify.

If you use a 3rd party player then deleting Music won’t delete the music, even if sync via iTunes. It will only delete music from the music app library.

 

[dk001]

The music must be stored in the music app for playback or deleting the Music app wouldn’t delete the library.

If I delete my Spotify app which has nearly 7gb of music in it. Then it will delete the music from it. But if I delete my Music app it won’t delete the music from Spotify.

If you use a 3rd party player then deleting Music won’t delete the music, even if sync via iTunes. It will only delete music from the music app library.

Still uinclear.
If I do not have Apple Music app installed, I can still download music from iTunes for use. I am assuming that if the App is installed it controls the music whether the app is used or not. If it is not installed, it is ..... ? Feels like a control installed unnecessarily. The app should ask if you want to delete your music in addition to deleting the app.

 

[0014]

Your confusing what I am saying.

If you delete the music app you get this warning.

So I now have no Music App

You can not download music from iTunes and play without the Music App

However you can rip CD’s or import music to your device via iTunes on your computer. This then stores a library within iTunes that you can then Sync to a 3rd party app. But it has to be done within iTunes.

The only other apps that offer local music storage are the likes of Spotify and Tidal etc where you can store music for offline listening.

 

[inkahauts]

Still uinclear.
If I do not have Apple Music app installed, I can still download music from iTunes for use. I am assuming that if the App is installed it controls the music whether the app is used or not. If it is not installed, it is ..... ? Feels like a control installed unnecessarily. The app should ask if you want to delete your music in addition to deleting the app.

Don’t think you can download iTunes without the music app on your phone.