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sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,271
12,994
where hip is spoken
There's been a lot of talk about contractual obligations for these keyboards but I'd be surprised if Apple's contracts work like that.

If Apple was contracting with a keyboard manufacturer, e.g., Logitech, to make these switches and keycaps and so forth, then sure, the contract might stipulate that Apple has to purchase X keyboard parts in Y amount of time.

But Apple designs their own keyboard parts, top-to-bottom. Presumably they tooled up some machinery at "their" factories (Foxconn's factories or whatever) to make all this stuff, and they can tell the factory to just shut off the machines whenever they feel like it. I just don't know who they would have a contractual obligation to, with regard to these keyboards.
If you were to see contracts like this, you WOULD be surprised. That is one of the concessions that Apple would make for requiring aggressive per unit pricing. If that wasn't the case, then Apple would've switched all macbooks to the new keyboards asap and not continue to replace defective keyboards with defective keyboards.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
If you were to see contracts like this, you WOULD be surprised. That is one of the concessions that Apple would make for requiring aggressive per unit pricing. If that wasn't the case, then Apple would've switched all macbooks to the new keyboards asap and not continue to replace defective keyboards with defective keyboards.

For all we know, Apple is switching all MacBooks to the new keyboards ASAP. But each model of laptop requires a redesign because the new keyboard is a bit thicker than the outgoing keyboard. Note that the 16" MBP is slightly thicker than the 15" MBP. Presumably they don't have the engineering resources to redesign every single model of laptop all at once.

As for the contracts... my problem with this is still, who does Apple supposedly have a contract with to supply these butterfly keyboards? They're Apple-designed, Apple-proprietary keyboards. Apple is essentially supplying these keyboards to themselves, although with a Chinese manufacturing firm (Foxconn?) as part of the process. But does Foxconn actually care that the machine that makes butterfly keyboards stamps out X many keyboards, or do they just have a manufacturing contract with Apple to do whatever manufacturing Apple tells them?
 

panerista

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,679
10,516
Austin, TX
For all we know, Apple is switching all MacBooks to the new keyboards ASAP. But each model of laptop requires a redesign because the new keyboard is a bit thicker than the outgoing keyboard. Note that the 16" MBP is slightly thicker than the 15" MBP. Presumably they don't have the engineering resources to redesign every single model of laptop all at once.
Well said. I think the problem is that MacBook Air wedge shape doesn't make adding depth as easily.

I have no doubt Apple will figure it out but I can understand it taking some time and it makes a ton of sense the MBP was first.
 
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T'hain Esh Kelch

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2001
6,311
7,152
Denmark
When I got my keyboard replaced for the 2. time in my '16 Macbook, the repair guy said that it now had the 3. generation keyboard with the membrane. It did feel slightly different, and I haven't had any major issues for several months since the replacement, so they might already be doing it.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
When I got my keyboard replaced for the 2. time in my '16 Macbook, the repair guy said that it now had the 3. generation keyboard with the membrane. It did feel slightly different, and I haven't had any major issues for several months since the replacement, so they might already be doing it.

No, "3rd generation with membrane" means the most recent iteration of the butterfly keyboard. The new "Magic" keyboard has different scissor switch keys. They have a fraction of a millimeter more travel, which I assume means the whole keyboard is a fraction of a millimeter thicker, so it can't just be retrofitted into older laptop designs.

All of Apple's laptops will have to be redesigned to accommodate the new keyboard. Not in a way that's necessarily noticeable. They might make the laptops half a millimeter thicker and not change much else, or they might make the batteries under the keyboard a fraction of a millimeter thinner and keep the laptop at the same overall size. But they'll have to be redesigned either way.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,327
3,081
No, "3rd generation with membrane" means the most recent iteration of the butterfly keyboard. The new "Magic" keyboard has different scissor switch keys. They have a fraction of a millimeter more travel, which I assume means the whole keyboard is a fraction of a millimeter thicker, so it can't just be retrofitted into older laptop designs.

All of Apple's laptops will have to be redesigned to accommodate the new keyboard. Not in a way that's necessarily noticeable. They might make the laptops half a millimeter thicker and not change much else, or they might make the batteries under the keyboard a fraction of a millimeter thinner and keep the laptop at the same overall size. But they'll have to be redesigned either way.

Also, to be clear, some MacBooks under the keyboard service program do not get the latest generation 2019 BF KB as replacements. My understanding is that only 2018 MBA and MBP models get the 2019 butterfly KB as replacements. Older models are replaced with the less reliable 2017 KB, which is a bummer. They still have 4 years of coverage, but might run into repeat problems.

I would suspect that the individual with a 2016 MacBook would get an older BF KB as replacement, rather than the more reliable latest generation 2019 version.
 
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