Why do you think the MacBook failed? Poll

[theluggage]

LOL. Underpowered? Can netbooks edit 4K videos?

...but can the 12" MB usefully edit 4k video? There's a difference between being technically capable of something and actually being any use for the job. Apart from the processor and small display

The original Netbooks weren't supposed to edit video (let alone 4k! In 2008?) - they were designed to be cheap, ultra small and light and adequate for email, web browsing, wordprocessing, casual gaming etc. The comparisons between the Air and Netbooks were always ridiculous - the Air always had a far better, near-full-sized keyboard, better display, reasonably powerful processor c.f. any "netbook" and, rather importantly, literally cost ten times as much. (MacBook Air intro price: $3098 - Asus eeePC: $300).

I think there's a whole slew of reasons why Netbooks died out - but I suspect mainly the industry doesn't want to sell you a sub-$300 computer when the could sell you a $500 tablet or a $700 PC laptop. Microsoft was partly responsible for 'dumping' low cost Windows XP licenses on the netbook market to kill off Linux - which forced makers to increase processor, storage and RAM to cope with XP's requirements... but then Asus et. al. spared every expense when it came to making Linux work well on small screens, and also kept invoking a deadly combination of underestimating demand and invoking the Osbourne effect - there always seemed to be a new, better eeePC announced before anybody had the previous version in stock... pretty soon "netbooks" were just entry-level (if not higher) laptops.

Interestingly, Chromebooks (the new incarnation of Netbooks) seem to be heading in the same direction - I recently needed to buy a low-end Chromebook to test stuff and all the sub-£200 models are quite old (although I did end up with one that provides a perfectly servicable 'web terminal' with a half-decent keyboard for £160) - the newer ones are significantly more expensive, with the Google Pixel Book costing the thick end of £1000.

As for the 12" Macbook - I just feel that it was "neither fish nor fowl" - too expensive for a web/office-only 'second laptop', not powerful enough for a 'main laptop' and not that much more portable than an Air.

 

[EugW]

isn

isn't it about heat dissipation? so mb 12 form factor can only be fanless with cpu tdp ~5 W

No, the SoC isn’t the only thing that generates heat. If you can include some of the other chipsets etc. within a new SoC’s functionality then the SoC may generate more heat but less heat will be produced elsewhere.
[doublepost=1564846515][/doublepost]

As for the 12" Macbook - I just feel that it was "neither fish nor fowl" - too expensive for a web/office-only 'second laptop', not powerful enough for a 'main laptop' and not that much more portable than an Air.

IMO it is much more portable than an Air, and also much less awkward to use on the plane, but YMMV.

 

[KPOM]

No, the SoC isn’t the only thing that generates heat. If you can include some of the other chipsets etc. within a new SoC’s functionality then the SoC may generate more heat but less heat will be produced elsewhere.
[doublepost=1564846515][/doublepost]
IMO it is much more portable than an Air, and also much less awkward to use on the plane, but YMMV.

Agreed. My guess is that Apple didn’t intend to make the new Air until they found that the MacBook wasn’t selling as well as expected. I’m guessing price was the main driver. I find it really difficult to believe the 1 port was a big issue, particularly since a 2nd port doesn’t add all that much functionality (being Thunderbolt helps somewhat) and still require the use of adapters or hubs, which are plentiful today.

 

[ZeitGeist]

Too expensive to manufacture, or upgrade.
A classic case of form over functionality, in fact, functionality and UX weren’t even considered a priority, and neither was Apple being able to upgrade it.

A classic Jony blunder. Sad, because I liked it as a form factor, and I feel it would have succeeded, at least better, had it been a millimeter thicker, and had two USB-C ports.

 

[bill-p]

Why did the MacBook fail? It's quite simple: iPads sell better than MacBooks.

As long as that's still true, Apple will continue to refuse to take Mac users seriously. All of their current innovations are happening on the iPad and iPhones, and ZERO innovation is happening to the Mac.

 

[calstanford]

It failed simply because Apple didn't give a damn about it. They could have easily and cheaply added another port on the right side. They could have increased SSD and RAM without taking up more space. They could have propped it up for the future by adding 4G (soon 5G). It's a lovely lovely machine that never got enough love from Apple.

 

[ZeitGeist]

It failed simply because Apple didn't give a damn about it. They could have easily and cheaply added another port on the right side. They could have increased SSD and RAM without taking up more space. They could have propped it up for the future by adding 4G (soon 5G). It's a lovely lovely machine that never got enough love from Apple.

Ask yourself why it never received any love, and combine that with who just left Apple, and after who’s departure it was discontinued?

Yep, vanity project. Plain and simple.

 

[borgusio]

Tips mess up the pub math.

What’s odd is that the 12” MacBook and iPad mini combined have almost the exact weight of the 13” MacBook Air. They would seemingly be the perfect travel pair for many now that the iPad is gaining Sidecar capability.

This is exactely how I travel. It still boggles me that people prefer a 13“ MacBook Pro to this combo.

And to answer the original question, the MB did not fail. It was killed.

Apple could have added a second port and reduced price, but then more and more people would have opted for the mb12 instead of the 13 solutions which are higher margins for apple.

So thay had to choose: either kill it or keep its features artificially cramped.

They decided to go with the former, it is a shame but it is what it is. I just ordered a 2017 i5 at a super low price to replace my 2015 m5.

Hopefully they will bring it back before the 2017 reaches its limits
[doublepost=1565070464][/doublepost]

Ask yourself why it never received any love, and combine that with who just left Apple, and after who’s departure it was discontinued?

Yep, vanity project. Plain and simple.

And what for a vanity Project. One of the best apple designs ever.

 

[psychedelia]

This is exactely how I travel. It still boggles me that people prefer a 13“ MacBook Pro to this combo.

And to answer the original question, the MB did not fail. It was killed.

Apple could have added a second port and reduced price, but then more and more people would have opted for the mb12 instead of the 13 solutions which are higher margins for apple.

So thay had to choose: either kill it or keep its features artificially cramped.

They decided to go with the former, it is a shame but it is what it is. I just ordered a 2017 i5 at a super low price to replace my 2015 m5.

What specs, and what was the price that you paid?

 

[borgusio]

What specs, and what was the price that you paid?

I5 2017 512 GB 8 GB space grey for 1.100, which is close to 30% off. Actually I am going to lease it for round about 50/month.

 

[psychedelia]

I5 2017 512 GB 8 GB space grey for 1.100, which is close to 30% off. Actually I am going to lease it for round about 50/month.

Good deal, this is what I am hoping to fetch mine for (albeit in euros), just waiting for a sale!

 

[ZeitGeist]

And what for a vanity Project. One of the best apple designs ever.

... not according to Apple.

 

[radiologyman]

This is exactely how I travel. It still boggles me that people prefer a 13“ MacBook Pro to this combo.

And to answer the original question, the MB did not fail. It was killed.

Apple could have added a second port and reduced price, but then more and more people would have opted for the mb12 instead of the 13 solutions which are higher margins for apple.

So thay had to choose: either kill it or keep its features artificially cramped.

They decided to go with the former, it is a shame but it is what it is. I just ordered a 2017 i5 at a super low price to replace my 2015 m5.

Hopefully they will bring it back before the 2017 reaches its limits
[doublepost=1565070464][/doublepost]
And what for a vanity Project. One of the best apple designs ever.

Exactly, an engineering marvel that pushed limits of what is possible creating a product in its own class

 

[Macalway]

The MacBook will rise like a phoenix from ashes, and soar high above the Air, on the wings of it's Arm.


Then again, maybe it's just dead.

 

[borgusio]

Exactly, an engineering marvel that pushed limits of what is possible creating a product in its own class

Exactely, a colleague of mine has a MacBook Pro that went for repair. He is using a MacBook 12 as a replacement for the time being. Performance wise he is perfectly satisfied (does sw development and design, not necessarily light tasks). yesterday he told me: “I still do not understand how did the fit a computer in here, it is just keyboard and display”.
[doublepost=1565249186][/doublepost]

Good deal, this is what I am hoping to fetch mine for (albeit in euros), just waiting for a sale!

Yupp - my deal is in euro! I am in Germany, what about you?
[doublepost=1565249349][/doublepost]Another funny story: while looking for offers to purchase the new one, I went to an apple certified reseller and they were out stock. The guy told me: “we refill stock as fast as we can but too many hipsters live here and we have a two digit backlog” lol

Sure it is a niche product, but 100% not a losing product. Apple killed it to keep the air alive. And I hate the current air. Neither portable nor powerful. What the heck is that?

 

[psychedelia]

Exactely, a colleague of mine has a MacBook Pro that went for repair. He is using a MacBook 12 as a replacement for the time being. Performance wise he is perfectly satisfied (does sw development and design, not necessarily light tasks). yesterday he told me: “I still do not understand how did the fit a computer in here, it is just keyboard and display”.
[doublepost=1565249186][/doublepost]
Yupp - my deal is in euro! I am in Germany, what about you?
[doublepost=1565249349][/doublepost]Another funny story: while looking for offers to purchase the new one, I went to an apple certified reseller and they were out stock. The guy told me: “we refill stock as fast as we can but too many hipsters live here and we have a two digit backlog” lol

Sure it is a niche product, but 100% not a losing product. Apple killed it to keep the air alive. And I hate the current air. Neither portable nor powerful. What the heck is that?

I should have said Norwegian kroners, but 1100 euros would be about what I will pay in NOK!
Wow, it's a the first time I've heard hipsters do anything actually useful!

 

[sky87]

Exactely, a colleague of mine has a MacBook Pro that went for repair. He is using a MacBook 12 as a replacement for the time being. Performance wise he is perfectly satisfied (does sw development and design, not necessarily light tasks). yesterday he told me: “I still do not understand how did the fit a computer in here, it is just keyboard and display”.

I've had my MB 12" for 2 weeks now and it still feels like a toy. It's really just keyboard and display! Pretty amazing to be honest.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Not a "failure," more of a "less-than-a-success."

To me, the MacBook proposition has always been "ultra-thin, ultra-light." Those traits were supposed to be worth a premium. In a different day and age, I'd have expected more people to buy into that, but today, with the rise of mobile devices, there are many other ways to go ultra-light.

In my experience, when people compared MB to MBA and MBP they chose either "lower price" or "more power." I expected that once MBA moved to a Retina display MB would lose even more buyers, and it seems clear that Apple understood this.

 

[borgusio]

You are right. However my hypothesis is that a mb12 with thunderbolt and the latest spec at the same price of the air, would outsell it.

But since apple would have lower margins at that price point on the 12... they killed it

 

[ZeitGeist]

You are right. However my hypothesis is that a mb12 with thunderbolt and the latest spec at the same price of the air, would outsell it.

It would need two thunderbolt ports, or just USB-C (thunderbolt brings little to the use case of that form factor).

But since apple would have lower margins at that price point on the 12... they killed it

This was due to who was behind the project, designed it, and insisted on functional compromises in favor of design - compromises that made the machine cost too much to manufacture, and made it impractical to update by Apple.

Hence, with the departure of Jony Ive, it was killed since it no longer served its prime purpose as a vanity product.

 

[azentropy]

All 3. Simply not enough bang for the buck especially with the cut in price of the MBA. Not enough people were willing to pay a premium for a smaller but less powerful device (or same price). The same thing IMO with their iPhones, which drives me crazy as in that case I am willing to pay the same/more for a more portable device.

 

[glhiii]

Ask yourself why it never received any love, and combine that with who just left Apple, and after who’s departure it was discontinued?

Yep, vanity project. Plain and simple.

I love working on it because it works well and (unlike other macbooks) is esthetically extremely pleasing. Working on such a beautiful piece of equipment is a real joy. Doubt Apple will ever sell anything like it again now that Jony (unfortunately) is no longer there.

 

[ZeitGeist]

Doubt Apple will ever sell anything like it again now that Jony (unfortunately) is no longer there.

You misspelled “fortunately”.

The cult of personality around Jony Ive is fascinating, considering he is mainly responsible for the issues people are complaining about or bemoaning in this thread ...

Jony Ive is kinda like George Lucas - delivering awesome things as long as he is guided properly - but without such guidance, and given absolute power, his limitations and incompetence quickly became apparent.

 

[PittAir]

Why did it fail? John Ive left.

 

[Elwe]

The MacBook will rise like a phoenix from ashes, and soar high above the Air, on the wings of it's Arm.


Then again, maybe it's just dead.

Maybe. Samsung just released the Galaxy Book S, so we'll shortly see how a Windows-based modern ARM laptop sells. I hope well enough, as I am one of those that would like to see a 12/13" ARM-based MacBook, even if it is locked down like iPads are. The battery life is advertised as being stellar.

And VAIO seems to be doing OK with the SX12 (x86_64 instead of ARM, though). Seems like what VAIO sacrificed was battery life.