Why is High Sierra so horrible?

[chucker23n1]

This is why Snow Leopard (just for eg) is seen as stable and fast, it simply had less to do, a less complex environment, less external interactions and dependencies - so less exposure to scenario variances that would have shown up weaknesses in the code design and implementation.

Snow Leopard is so often referred for two reasons.

For one, people romanticize it a little. It's almost a decade old by now, and they remember it fondly. It actually had some freaky bugs, such as in some cases deleting your entire user directory after someone logged in as a guest.

The bigger one is that Snow Leopard wasn't just a quieter release like Mountain Lion, El Capitan and High Sierra were afterwards; it was also a quiet release that 1) followed a long release before that, and 2) itself remained for a long time. If you count Snow Leopard as a continuation of Leopard, that cycle was really over three and a half years long (October 2007 till July 2011). And if you consider on top of that that Leopard itself was delayed and followed Tiger (which shipped much earlier in April 2005), that's quite a lot of time to reach some stability.

But people also complain about the Mac being stale, so there are no simple answers here.

 

[SL4VE]

Every product that's come out since Steve Jobs died has been sub par and un-apple like. Take the Apple Watch as comparison. Over priced junk, hardly any of the apps actually work and has bipolar battery management. Don't think Steve would let these monstrosity out.

 

[CrashX]

there are no simple answers here.

There may be no simple answers - but there is a simple question.

Why the startup lag? What's going on?

As far as I can tell, there is NO MENTION of it whatsoever by Apple, Ars Technica, or anyone else we might trust to provide the answer? Has everyone been bought off? Hundreds of billions of dollars will do that, no doubt.

It just is. And my apologies to those who claim it isn't on their machines? Not that I don't believe you - but run some troubleshooting diagnostics for me to PROVE it - or stop your whiny complaining foot-stomping nonsense that High Sierra introduced zero startup lag to your machine? You are lying. No, wait... I'm lying? I so easily get all confuzzled?

Sorry, in a world where Apple has us paying $29 to get a new battery for "peak performance" for our gadgets - "saving" us $50?

I'm not aligned to agree that the startup lag they've introduced is acceptable, or agree with any other mysterious "slowing down" of my otherwise awesome Mac.

We've seemingly surpassed Moore's law, as far as the OS can just instantly rip the technology away again -

So put up or shut up. Don't dog my machine because you simply have the power to do it, Apple.

Either YOU, Apple, PROVE the efficacy of your new file system - or shove it where the sun don't shine. Stop forcing your degradation on us.

I have no desire to run your iOS crApps on my Mac. It's way more powerful than your gadgets. Maybe it doesn't need to be slowed down?

And you have a seemingly endless supply of idiots willing to pay over $1000 for face-scanning...

So please - just ditch Apple Computers altogether before you try pulling a similar stunt with us?

Or don't - because so far, it's working like a charm? Thanks to your fanboys, just lapping it up in their servitude?

There is absolutely NO WAY my machine should suddenly incur a startup lag of over 30 seconds, accompanied by glitches. That is NOT acceptable. Not buying it.

And yeah, I will "run away" if this keeps up - what with the French holding the Holy Grail.

I've been a fanboy for over 30 years now - but I'm not buying that my computer needs to be slowed down for your mobile OS. I'll just go with the best non-mobile OS I can get that's streamlined for MY computer.

Don't care to bother with that anymore? Too busy raking all the morons? You go, girl.

Hey, the next one might not be as fine and sleek. But at least she gets the job done.

I'm over the perpetual tease of "better things to come" after I pay for them again and again ad infinitum.

 

[Internet Enzyme]

I have no clue what people are even talking about. My rmbp 2015 baseline model shipped with yosemite. Its been a few years but i do not believe that my performance has ever gotten worse with an update. Maybe i just dont remember it properly. El capitan, Sierra and high sierra are just minute updates that barely changed the system for better or worse in my eyes

 

[Argyboy]

I know its old hardware, but had nothing but frustration with it on a 2010 Macbook Pro (Core 2 Duo, but with 8GB RAM). Slow, hanging all the time (endless beachball) and poor battery life.

Went back to El Cap and this Macbook runs like a dream. Won't be moving away from this again in a hurry.

 

[shafez]

[doublepost=1525467158][/doublepost]

There may be no simple answers - but there is a simple question.

Why the startup lag? What's going on?

As far as I can tell, there is NO MENTION of it whatsoever by Apple, Ars Technica, or anyone else we might trust to provide the answer? Has everyone been bought off? Hundreds of billions of dollars will do that, no doubt.

It just is. And my apologies to those who claim it isn't on their machines? Not that I don't believe you - but run some troubleshooting diagnostics for me to PROVE it - or stop your whiny complaining foot-stomping nonsense that High Sierra introduced zero startup lag to your machine? You are lying. No, wait... I'm lying? I so easily get all confuzzled?

Sorry, in a world where Apple has us paying $29 to get a new battery for "peak performance" for our gadgets - "saving" us $50?

I'm not aligned to agree that the startup lag they've introduced is acceptable, or agree with any other mysterious "slowing down" of my otherwise awesome Mac.

We've seemingly surpassed Moore's law, as far as the OS can just instantly rip the technology away again -

So put up or shut up. Don't dog my machine because you simply have the power to do it, Apple.

Either YOU, Apple, PROVE the efficacy of your new file system - or shove it where the sun don't shine. Stop forcing your degradation on us.

I have no desire to run your iOS crApps on my Mac. It's way more powerful than your gadgets. Maybe it doesn't need to be slowed down?

And you have a seemingly endless supply of idiots willing to pay over $1000 for face-scanning...

So please - just ditch Apple Computers altogether before you try pulling a similar stunt with us?

Or don't - because so far, it's working like a charm? Thanks to your fanboys, just lapping it up in their servitude?

There is absolutely NO WAY my machine should suddenly incur a startup lag of over 30 seconds, accompanied by glitches. That is NOT acceptable. Not buying it.

And yeah, I will "run away" if this keeps up - what with the French holding the Holy Grail.

I've been a fanboy for over 30 years now - but I'm not buying that my computer needs to be slowed down for your mobile OS. I'll just go with the best non-mobile OS I can get that's streamlined for MY computer.

Don't care to bother with that anymore? Too busy raking all the morons? You go, girl.

Hey, the next one might not be as fine and sleek. But at least she gets the job done.

I'm over the perpetual tease of "better things to come" after I pay for them again and again ad infinitum.

Excuse me , but you are going over the top here with this new conspiracy theory which you have in you mind and all because of a 30 odd seconds more in boot time.

I have a Retina 13" MacBook Pro Late 2013 running High Sierra and everything is working fine for me and I don't need and no one need to prove to anybody that his mac is running fine with High Sierra.

I don't think your odd 30 seconds extra boot time need 8 pages to be discussed and for you to try to convince everyone here that High Sierra is so horrible.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[Partron22]

For one, people romanticize it a little. It's almost a decade old by now

I'm running Leopard (10.5.8.11) on my basement 2005 powerpc mini, of an external firewire drive.
The Mac boots in literally 30 seconds. I'd go to Snow leopard, but the powerpc precludes that.
Sometimes I take it down to 10.4 (Tiger) so I can run System 9 stuff. That blazes too.
The networkization of the OS starting around 2012 really slowed things down, a lot.
I hate asychronous Finder tasks. They seem to slow Everything.

Sure, I'm using an old version over libre office, but I've got decent iTunes, Canvas, and MacDeaw as well as WriteNow and Photoshop, should I ever want them. They all run at a reasonable speed, excepting of course Photoshop filters. -NO network, it's usb stick modified. Everything transfers to my real Macs upstairs, when I need it.

 

[Lioness~]

[doublepost=1525467158][/doublepost]

Excuse me....

Thank you for understanding.

You are excused, but also probably ranting too much on MR, 41 posts since 2011
So most likely you don’t understand those who have a need to rant about things that are unimportant for you.

Keep up your good work

 

[kwikdeth]

Thank you for understanding.

Thank you for failing to understand that just because your use case is perfect that not everyone else's is.

 

[Crunch]

My experience with the OS was extremely brief. I installed it on my machine, noticed that the startup time had increased at least 30 seconds - which seemed like an eternity given how spoiled I've become with an SSD - so I immediately went back to Sierra.

I've never read any ATTEMPT at an explanation as to why even the startup time increased so much? Ars Technica doesn't even explain it - instead they published the glowing review that convinced me to try the update in the first place?

This all just seems very weird? Sadly, I'm paranoid enough to think:

"Shhh... don't tell anyone what's actually going on at Apple - they have WAY too much money these days! Seriously, they'll bury us!"

You'd think that at LEAST Ars Technica would have grumbled at least a WEE tiny little bit - but no? All's well that's not even close to well - even for a completely non-technical person like me?

[...]

It's not paranoia on your part. It's common sense!

 

[shafez]

Thank you for failing to understand that just because your use case is perfect that not everyone else's is.

I am glad that you succeeded to understand what I failed to understand that a 30 seconds extra boot time can make High Sierra so horrible and it needs 8 pages to discuss it here.
[doublepost=1525523039][/doublepost]

You are excused, but also probably ranting too much on MR, 41 posts since 2011
So most likely you don’t understand those who have a need to rant about things that are unimportant for you.

Keep up your good work

I guess I read more than you do and only post where there is a need to do so and not just write for the sake of being around.

 

[Lioness~]

I guess I read more than you do and only post where there is a need to do so and not just write for the sake of being around.

You're assuming way too much.

 

[Apples555]

You know, I've seen every version of Mac from Snow Leopard all the way up to High Sierra on my 2010 13" MBP. They all seem to run about the same. If anything High Sierra is snappier than Leopard ever was. I suspect this is because I never upgrade, I always clean install.

 

[techguy15]

Late 2011 MacBook Pro here. Did a clean install of HS. No problems for me. I might add I do have 16gb RAM...

 

[deepakvrao]

Installed HS on 4 Macs. No issues here.

Seriously 8 pages over a boot up delay? Even if true, how often do you shut down?

 

[Septercius]

High Sierra is the first time that I've ever downgraded to a previous version. I've done it twice now, the second time being this morning. I had hoped that by the time 10.13.4 had been released, they would have fixed the issues I experienced earlier, mainly surrounding Spotlight bugs. They still haven't fixed those, and the issue I raised with them back in January about administrator accounts changing to standard accounts if you change the user name or home folder remains outstanding, despite Apple claiming in my bug report that it had been fixed.

Last night, I installed HS using APFS. Thinking my Spotlight issues might be due to APFS, I installed again this morning using HFS+. I then installed a security upgrade and rebooted, at which point my iMac decided it would upgrade the filesystem of my boot drive to APFS without telling me. It then left a "macOS Installer" folder in the root of my drive, which caused the computer to try to upgrade the OS every time it booted (it would fail to do so).

So now I'm back on good ol' Sierra, where everything works much better. If 10.14 is going to be focused on reliability, then it can't come soon enough.

 

[techguy15]

Installed HS on 4 Macs. No issues here.

Seriously 8 pages over a boot up delay? Even if true, how often do you shut down?

Oh come on. Just admit, like the OP does, that you have 3-4.75 second delays on at least one of your four Macs! Can you please go another 8 pages to outdo the OP? lol

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Yep, let's keep this going

I shut down my cMP 5,1 every night. Just shut down and rebooted and timed the operation. 10 seconds from button push to chime, another 26 seconds to desktop. So 36 seconds total. Time I can use to reflect on this silly thread

Oh, I never do a clean install. But, I do keep my applications up to date!

Lou

 

[Plutonius]

how often do you shut down?

I shut down nightly.

 

[fisherking]

just wondering why people shut down so often; seems an old idea. what's wrong with sleep? (for the record, i have power nap off)...

 

[Apples555]

Properly shutting down and starting is still how the OS is designed to behave. Maybe not nightly, but every once in a while.

 

[fisherking]

Properly shutting down and starting is still how the OS is designed to behave. Maybe not nightly, but every once in a while.

exactly. every once in a while...

 

[simonsi]

Properly shutting down and starting is still how the OS is designed to behave. Maybe not nightly, but every once in a while.

Do you actually have that on authority from anyone placed to know?

 

[flowrider]

OK, let's completely change the subject and argue about something else!!!!!
Sounds good to me!!!!!

And if you guys never shut down, what difference does start-up time mean to you

Lou

 

[Plutonius]

And if you guys never shut down, what difference does start-up time mean to you

I shut down every night and the additional startup time is an annoyance.
[doublepost=1525649092][/doublepost]

just wondering why people shut down so often; seems an old idea. what's wrong with sleep? (for the record, i have power nap off)...

My cMP is a power hog even in sleep mode. During the winter it's a space heater and during the summer I need AC in the room to keep the room at a reasonable temperature .