128 GB MAC-SSD question

[Fishrrman]

"Again, misinformation from you.
You can install macOS from the installer in apps folder, or from the internet booted from the Recovery, on an external drive. You simply select the drive in the installer options. And I installed macOS High Sierra on a spinner just a few days ago, I can't see why recent versions would care if the drive is spinning or solid state."

Installing newer versions of the OS on an m-series Mac is not the same as doing it on an Intel Mac.
I would have thought so, too, but found this out myself when I tried to create a bootable external drive using (I believe it was) Monterey.
(as an aside, I have a dosdude1-patched version of Mojave on an old 7200rpm drive in a USB3/SATA dock that will boot my 2012 Mini, no problems)

Some firsthand experiences from some months ago (all using a 2021 MacBook Pro, m1pro CPU):
- At first, I tried creating a bootable clone of Monterey onto a platter-based hard drive using SuperDuper (may have tried with CCC as well, can't remember).
Although the clone "went through" -- that is, both the OS and the "HD Data" containers were cloned, I couldn't get a successful boot from the drive. Just wouldn't work. Wouldn't boot.

- I wiped the HDD and tried a different approach, installing Monterey as a "fresh install", using the installer. I can't remember whether the install failed or not, but I still couldn't get a bootable drive.
(the drive was otherwise "good", i.e. not defective. It was an older drive, however, just USB2, I think -- perhaps THAT had something to do with it -- not USB3).

- I then tried to install Monterey (fresh copy) on an SSD in a USB3 enclosure.
This time, the OS installed without a hitch and the drive was bootable (from the m1pro MBP) without problems.

- I then used ANOTHER SSD (this one is a home-build nvme drive in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) and SuperDuper to do a full-cloned backup of Monterey onto the SSD.
The clone went through and the drive IS bootable. In fact, I just booted from it a few minutes ago to check.

Prior to my experiences with the m-series MBP, I had never had problems installing the OS onto platter-based drives. The OS might boot slowly -- but it still booted. That seems to have changed.

Unless you have tried doing such things yourself, it's not advisable to come in here and tell me that what I'm posting is "misinformation". What you did with High Sierra doesn't count when discussing the procedure with Apple Silicon.

I'm wondering if anyone else in the forum, using an m-series Mac, has been able to install the OS onto a platter-based drive and then boot from it. If successful, were you using a relatively high-speed drive? (such as 7200rpm or faster)
Please give us your report.

I was using an old drive, so I'm thinking that slow speed had something to do with it.

 

[Ben J.]

"Again, misinformation from you.
You can install macOS from the installer in apps folder, or from the internet booted from the Recovery, on an external drive. You simply select the drive in the installer options. And I installed macOS High Sierra on a spinner just a few days ago, I can't see why recent versions would care if the drive is spinning or solid state."

Installing newer versions of the OS on an m-series Mac is not the same as doing it on an Intel Mac.
I would have thought so, too, but found this out myself when I tried to create a bootable external drive using (I believe it was) Monterey.
(as an aside, I have a dosdude1-patched version of Mojave on an old 7200rpm drive in a USB3/SATA dock that will boot my 2012 Mini, no problems)

Some firsthand experiences from some months ago (all using a 2021 MacBook Pro, m1pro CPU):
- At first, I tried creating a bootable clone of Monterey onto a platter-based hard drive using SuperDuper (may have tried with CCC as well, can't remember).
Although the clone "went through" -- that is, both the OS and the "HD Data" containers were cloned, I couldn't get a successful boot from the drive. Just wouldn't work. Wouldn't boot.

- I wiped the HDD and tried a different approach, installing Monterey as a "fresh install", using the installer. I can't remember whether the install failed or not, but I still couldn't get a bootable drive.
(the drive was otherwise "good", i.e. not defective. It was an older drive, however, just USB2, I think -- perhaps THAT had something to do with it -- not USB3).

- I then tried to install Monterey (fresh copy) on an SSD in a USB3 enclosure.
This time, the OS installed without a hitch and the drive was bootable (from the m1pro MBP) without problems.

- I then used ANOTHER SSD (this one is a home-build nvme drive in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) and SuperDuper to do a full-cloned backup of Monterey onto the SSD.
The clone went through and the drive IS bootable. In fact, I just booted from it a few minutes ago to check.

Prior to my experiences with the m-series MBP, I had never had problems installing the OS onto platter-based drives. The OS might boot slowly -- but it still booted. That seems to have changed.

Unless you have tried doing such things yourself, it's not advisable to come in here and tell me that what I'm posting is "misinformation". What you did with High Sierra doesn't count when discussing the procedure with Apple Silicon.

I'm wondering if anyone else in the forum, using an m-series Mac, has been able to install the OS onto a platter-based drive and then boot from it. If successful, were you using a relatively high-speed drive? (such as 7200rpm or faster)
Please give us your report.

I was using an old drive, so I'm thinking that slow speed had something to do with it.

You can install macOS on any external drive. I can't find an apple support page saying it right out, but here's a page indicating that there's nothing prohibiting it:

If you can't install macOS on an external disk

I've installed Big Sur, Monterey, and Ventura on external drives both M1s and M2s.
The High Sierra example was only to tell the last time I installed the OS on a spinning HD.

A macOS installer always lets you select the drive or volume you want it to install on, internal or external.

Of course, the version has to support the mac model or it won't install. One thing I haven't tried yet is to have different versions of macOS on the external and internal. I'll leave that for experimentation. If I update the internal, I'll also update the external.

Cloning system drives and having them boot went away with the 'signed system volume' consept - Catalina, I think.

 

[gpat]

Question:

if get an Mac with 128 GB SSD, will i be able to successfully put my home folder and everything data onto an External SSD via Hub/direct Thunderbolt, and therefore have less likely a early breakdown of SSD?

I used to do this for a short time and a lot of years ago (maybe in the Snow Leopard days, when I was rocking SSD+HDD in my Macbook Pro).
You can right-click your user account in System Preferences, click Advanced Options and choose any path for the home folder. Tried in Ventura and the option is still there.

May be buggy though. Go ahead and try. Basic UNIX knowledge needed.
Doing it for the SSD lifespan is meaningless though. I could understand doing it to have a roomier workspace.

 

[Feek]

I respectfully disagree with you.

You disagree with the fact that everyones usage is different and that for some people, 128Gb is enough?

 

[Ben J.]

I used to do this for a short time and a lot of years ago (maybe in the Snow Leopard days, when I was rocking SSD+HDD in my Macbook Pro).
You can right-click your user account in System Preferences, click Advanced Options and choose any path for the home folder.
May be buggy though. Go ahead and try.

There are lots of reports about this not being water-tight.
For me, using a utility like DaisyDisk to find folders that are taking up much space, moving them to another drive, and replacing them with symlinks/aliases pointing to the moved folders, is a very foolproof and practical method.

 

[gpat]

There are lots of reports about this not being water-tight.
For me, using a utility like DaisyDisk to find folders that are taking up much space, moving them to another drive, and replacing them with symlinks/aliases pointing to the moved folders, is a very foolproof and practical method.

Yeah, I'd rather use symlinks as well. Only for user-created folders though.
If our friend tried to do that for system-bonded folders, like Desktop or Library, I'd expect something to break sooner or later as well.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Cloning system drives and having them boot went away with the 'signed system volume' consept - Catalina, I think."

Apparently the poster does not read the posts I put up.

My 2021 MacBook Pro with an m2pro CPU will boot and run from an external drive (Monterey installed). Guess I'll have to post pics to prove it.
2021 MBP (booted from internal SSD, OS 12.6.8):

2021 MBP (booted from external cloned backup, nvme blade SSD in a USB3.1 gen2 SSD, OS 12.6.3):

Once again, I will ask if ANYONE has successfully booted an Apple-Silicon Mac using an external, platter-based hard drive.

All my attempts to do this have failed. I believe it's because of the drive's slower speeds (perhaps because I was using a USB2 enclosure rather than USB3, but that in itself won't impact the speed of a platter-based drive). It may have been due to other factors. I'd just like to hear of other experiences.

What worked for you?

 

[Ben J.]

@Fishrrman:
I'm sorry if I missed parts of your post. My main point was to make clear that macOS can still be installed on external drives, but you can't clone a macOS system drive and have it boot, like you could before. I'm not loosing sleep over if it installs on slow spinners or not.

Anyway, I think we've derailed the thread for long enough.

 

[Fishrrman]

Ben J.
"My main point was to make clear that macOS can still be installed on external drives, but you can't clone a macOS system drive and have it boot, like you could before. "

You "main point" is wrong.
See the proof in reply 22 above.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[mrkapqa]

My 2021 MacBook Pro with an m2pro CPU will boot and run from an external drive (Monterey installed). Guess I'll have to post pics to prove it.

alright, but will it function after your SSD eventually dies?
the internal one.

 

[pdoherty]

It is simply untrue.
What IS new with the latest macs and OS versions is that you can't boot from an external drive if it's too old version for the mac, or if the internal drive is not fully functioning with a compatible OS.
Typical example of a internet myth.
Everybody's an expert on forums.
Repeating untruths that they read on other forums.

OK so it's still half true. If you can't boot from an external if the internal SSD failed, then you're still at the mercy of the internal SSD and can't continue to function even with a functional external drive of the correct format.

 

[Boyd01]

This is really drifting off-topic here. The OP stated they were asking about a 128gb 2018 Intel Mini. It should still be able to boot from an external disk even if the internal SSD has failed. The limitation on external booting began with the M1 Mini.

 

[Chuckeee]

Does this mean I could boot Mojave from my Mini m2 pro using an external [solid state?] drive? And then run 32-bit apps?

That would be really neat. I would have thought that was NOT possible.

 

[Juicy Box]

Does this mean I could boot Mojave from my Mini m2 pro using an external [solid state?] drive? And then run 32-bit apps?

That would be really neat. I would have not thought was possible.

No, in almost all cases, you can only go back to the OS that shipped with your Mac.

 

[Chuckeee]

No, in almost all cases, you can only go back to the OS that shipped with your Mac.

Not surprised. Darn it

 

[HDFan]

f get an Mac with 128 GB SSD, will i be able to successfully put my home folder and everything data onto an External SSD via Hub/direct Thunderbolt, and therefore have less likely a early breakdown of SSD?
or wont it make a big difference, since MacOS will still write a lot of Data onto Internal SSD, even if i put home folder to external storage (provided this is possible with newer versions of MacOS)?

1. Don't worry about SSD failure due to excessive use. Hundreds of posts worrying about it, only one I remember where it may have actually happened. Apple SSDs have a very long lifetime as long as you size them correctly and respect them by keeping ~30% free.

2. Booting from an external SSD should limit internal SSD usage to a minimum as caches and temporary files will be on the boot disk.

 

[Mac mini power user]

The last Mac to ship with 128 GB of storage out of the box is the 2018 i3 Mac mini. I have this very model, and while using it is workable, I would recommend keeping files either on an external drive, NAS, or in the cloud. I wouldn't recommend buying it though. It will probably get only one more OS upgrade after Sonoma, and the internal GPU is relatively weak compared to anything Apple Silicon has to offer. Plus, it has a tendency to run quite hot. This is not as remarkable due to it being a desktop, but again, Apple Silicon Mac minis are, aside from official external display support, better in every aspect.

 

[Boyd01]

Apple Silicon Mac minis are, aside from official external display support, better in every aspect.

Really depends on what you need. I use my 2018 Mini heavily with a 32gb Windows 10 virtual machine in Parallels, running demanding GIS software at the same time as Mac apps. Have been doing this since 2020 and still really happy with it. Also run some expensive legacy Mac software in MacOS Sierra and Mountain Lion VM's under Parallels. Apple Silicon Macs just can't do these things.

Of course, many (if not most) people don't need this capability, but I'm glad that it's still possible. And I'm running the top-spec i7 Mini with 64gb RAM and a 2tb internal SSD.

 

[mrkapqa]

was wondering if the mac would still boot since somewhere it stated that the 2018 ntel mac also got a T2 chip or something and in case of SSD failure would prevent boot, so it would be interesting to know who things are being handled. sure there must have been some SSD failures happened in the meantime.

the new M1/M2 are interesting products, but it seems they have been trying to put IOS under the skin, and that is not very reassuring.

 

[Mac mini power user]

Really depends on what you need. I use my 2018 Mini heavily with a 32gb Windows 10 virtual machine in Parallels, running demanding GIS software at the same time as Mac apps. Have been doing this since 2020 and still really happy with it. Also run some expensive legacy Mac software in MacOS Sierra and Mountain Lion VM's under Parallels. Apple Silicon Macs just can't do these things.

Of course, many (if not most) people don't need this capability, but I'm glad that it's still possible. And I'm running the top-spec i7 Mini with 64gb RAM and a 2tb internal SSD.

I agree that for your use case an Intel Mac mini is more suitable.

 

[pshufd]

My wife has a 2018 base mini (8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD). She can't download updates because there isn't enough space and she really isn't using that much space as it is. So this can be an issue. She's perfectly fine with the machine and she isn't aware of the space issue. I may just attach a bootable external SSD and run everything off of that. I think that it would cost about $50. I run my 2015 iMac 27 in the same way as it has a HDD.

 

[Mark.g4]

Question:

if get an Mac with 128 GB SSD, will i be able to successfully put my home folder and everything data onto an External SSD via Hub/direct Thunderbolt, and therefore have less likely a early breakdown of SSD?
or wont it make a big difference, since MacOS will still write a lot of Data onto Internal SSD, even if i put home folder to external storage (provided this is possible with newer versions of MacOS)?

thanks.

128GB SSD is obsolete today.
256GB is the minimum.

 

[HDFan]

She can't download updates because there isn't enough space and she really isn't using that much space

She doesn't have space but isn't using that much space? Contradictory.

 

[pshufd]

She doesn't have space but isn't using that much space? Contradictory.

The limits of 128 GB storage. I suspect that it's the kit size with both Intel and Apple Silicon installers. A Samsung T7 should do the trick. I could just give her my M1 mini 512/16 but then I wouldn't have an Apple Silicon test machine.