15" M2 or wait for M3 for programming and OBS?

[hiddenpower]

Hello. I’m a programmer and want to use this as my daily driver outside of my 9-5 for some web projects and content creation. I'm unsure how to spec it so wanted to ask for advice here. I'd be upgrading from a supped out 2014 MBP with the 750M and 16GM of RAM. It's just started to slow down considerably; maybe it just needs thermal paste and cleaned fans and a new battery but I'm not sure.

For my next upgrade, I’m going to grab the 15" MBA with 512GB SSD, and either 16gb or 24gb of RAM. I’m unsure if I should wait for the M3 though. Is the only difference going to be speed or could there be other improvements? My main use case will be heavy browsing, coding, and recording and streaming with OBS.

If there's any insights between the RAM and M2 vs M3 for this use-case please chime in. Thank you

 

[Bel Marduk]

Most expect an update in March. Do you need a new computer right now? You're using a ten year old system so what's a two month wait?

 

[kitKAC]

Anything you buy is going to be better than what you've currently got, why wait?

 

[jdb8167]

Hello. I’m a programmer and want to use this as my daily driver outside of my 9-5 for some web projects and content creation. I'm unsure how to spec it so wanted to ask for advice here. I'd be upgrading from a supped out 2014 MBP with the 750M and 16GM of RAM. It's just started to slow down considerably; maybe it just needs thermal paste and cleaned fans and a new battery but I'm not sure.

For my next upgrade, I’m going to grab the 15" MBA with 512GB SSD, and either 16gb or 24gb of RAM. I’m unsure if I should wait for the M3 though. Is the only difference going to be speed or could there be other improvements? My main use case will be heavy browsing, coding, and recording and streaming with OBS.

If there's any insights between the RAM and M2 vs M3 for this use-case please chime in. Thank you

I use my 13" 24GB/1TB M2 MacBook Air as my daily driver for development work. I write mostly web based React/JS code right now but I've also done a bit of Xcode Mac programming and it is very useable. Sorry, don't know anything about OBS. The main benefit of the M3 is going to be raytracing and mesh shaders and a bit more performance. If the graphics upgrades don't excite you then to make it worth the wait for the M3 would mainly be about a 15%-20% performance upgrade.

 

[hiddenpower]

Thanks! That 20% boost in gpu performance should translate to screen recording and editing I presume?

I've done some self-repair on my 2014 15" model and replaced the thermal paste on the cpu/gpu and cleaned out a lot of dust around the fans. I noticed a boost but still not good enough. A bit of lag and the bluetooth mic was still degraded. I installed Fedora/Linux with X11 and the correct NVIDIA drivers, and holy smokes. It took some time, but it feels like a new machine.. I might even self-replace the battery for $50 and see how it drives.

WRT to the next M-model; I think I'd like to upgrade the RAM at the very least since I have had a 16GB model for almost 10 years already, so I'll be returning the 16GB M2 model and keep my eye on the M3 since March is so close.

I'm worried that I fixed my computer too much... but I've got a bunch of apple gift cards now. So when I do switch to the 15" air can I expect it to last as long as the supped up 2014 15" MPB I got (i7, 750M, 16gb ram, 512ssd)? I would hope so given apple charges a lot for their hardware; the ram and storage upcharges are messed up lol. I'm also keeping tabs on AsahiLinux to run fedora on the next M-series. If I can get more performance with a less distracting interface, then that's a win.

 

[jdb8167]

Thanks! That 20% boost in gpu performance should translate to screen recording and editing I presume?

I've done some self-repair on my 2014 15" model and replaced the thermal paste on the cpu/gpu and cleaned out a lot of dust around the fans. I noticed a boost but still not good enough. A bit of lag and the bluetooth mic was still degraded. I installed Fedora/Linux with X11 and the correct NVIDIA drivers, and holy smokes. It took some time, but it feels like a new machine.. I might even self-replace the battery for $50 and see how it drives.

WRT to the next M-model; I think I'd like to upgrade the RAM at the very least since I have had a 16GB model for almost 10 years already, so I'll be returning the 16GB M2 model and keep my eye on the M3 since March is so close.

I'm worried that I fixed my computer too much... but I've got a bunch of apple gift cards now. So when I do switch to the 15" air can I expect it to last as long as the supped up 2014 15" MPB I got (i7, 750M, 16gb ram, 512ssd)? I would hope so given apple charges a lot for their hardware; the ram and storage upcharges are messed up lol. I'm also keeping tabs on AsahiLinux to run fedora on the next M-series. If I can get more performance with a less distracting interface, then that's a win.

The difference between a 2014 MBP and an M2 Apple silicon MacBook Air is going to be just off the scale. I was referencing the difference between a non-fan cooled Air vs. a M2 or M3 MacBook Pro. The performance will be so much higher on the Air vs. the 2014 MBP that you will be stunned.

 

[hiddenpower]

The difference between a 2014 MBP and an M2 Apple silicon MacBook Air is going to be just off the scale. I was referencing the difference between a non-fan cooled Air vs. a M2 or M3 MacBook Pro. The performance will be so much higher on the Air vs. the 2014 MBP that you will be stunned.

I was impressed test driving it! Do you think it will maintain the same longevity? especially without fans? Definitely going to wait for the m3 mba and grab more RAM too.

 

[hiddenpower]

And the time has come. So 24GB RAM, 512GB SSD model. Would this device also be sufficient if I want to tinker with AI programming side projects? The apple site mentions AI in relation to the M3 but wasn't sure if it's just all marketing.

 

[hiddenpower]

Also how much did this take off the price of M2s 24gb models? Maybe I should just grab one of those, thanks!

 

[dojo_nate]

And the time has come. So 24GB RAM, 512GB SSD model. Would this device also be sufficient if I want to tinker with AI programming side projects? The apple site mentions AI in relation to the M3 but wasn't sure if it's just all marketing.

Generally when Apple talks AI on a Mac to-date it's referring to the neural engine; the neural engine's utility for AI projects depends on the particular project in question and whether it actually utilizes it.

Also how much did this take off the price of M2s 24gb models? Maybe I should just grab one of those, thanks!

Just depends on how long until you think you'll want to replace it. M2 is 1.5 years old; that's one generation less time that Apple will deliver software support, which means less time that third parties will support it.

 

[hiddenpower]

Generally when Apple talks AI on a Mac to-date it's referring to the neural engine; the neural engine's utility for AI projects depends on the particular project in question and whether it actually utilizes it.


Just depends on how long until you think you'll want to replace it. M2 is 1.5 years old; that's one generation less time that Apple will deliver software support, which means less time that third parties will support it.

the generational support for update is based on chip, not device release date?

so really all i'm getting is a 18% boost overall with the M3 vs M2 chip?

 

[geta]

the generational support for update is based on chip, not device release date?

so really all i'm getting is a 18% boost overall with the M3 vs M2 chip?

Also the M3 supports two external screens with the lid close if you care about this for your needs.

 

[coffeemilktea]

And the time has come. So 24GB RAM, 512GB SSD model. Would this device also be sufficient if I want to tinker with AI programming side projects? The apple site mentions AI in relation to the M3 but wasn't sure if it's just all marketing.

I'm not sure if an Air is the best laptop to use for AI. If you're just referring to something like Apple's own CoreML framework, it's fine.

...but if you're talking about generative AI though, it becomes a very different story: even working with smaller text-based AI models can generate a lot of heat, especially if you offload some of the work to the GPU like LM Studio does. Things get even worse when you get into image-based AI models like Stable Diffusion. It's not a big issue if you're on a MacBook Pro, since the Pros have great fans and thermal management, but on a fan-less MacBook Air, I think it'll become a huge bottleneck.

(Additionally, generative AI tends to be very memory-intensive. A lot of smaller models will run fine on 24 GB, but if you get involved with the larger open-source models... it's nowhere near enough.)

That said, if you're just talking about Core ML or you plan to do a lot of cloud computing, then the MacBook Air specs you've listed are more than enough. But for anything involving generative AI running locally on your machine, I'd recommend a MacBook Pro with a lot of RAM. 🤖

 

[hiddenpower]

Also the M3 supports two external screens with the lid close if you care about this for your needs.

Yes true, I only use 1 monitor but might as well just get the latest and great for $120-200 more.

I'm not sure if an Air is the best laptop to use for AI. If you're just referring to something like Apple's own CoreML framework, it's fine.

...but if you're talking about generative AI though, it becomes a very different story: even working with smaller text-based AI models can generate a lot of heat, especially if you offload some of the work to the GPU like LM Studio does. Things get even worse when you get into image-based AI models like Stable Diffusion. It's not a big issue if you're on a MacBook Pro, since the Pros have great fans and thermal management, but on a fan-less MacBook Air, I think it'll become a huge bottleneck.

(Additionally, generative AI tends to be very memory-intensive. A lot of smaller models will run fine on 24 GB, but if you get involved with the larger open-source models... it's nowhere near enough.)

That said, if you're just talking about Core ML or you plan to do a lot of cloud computing, then the MacBook Air specs you've listed are more than enough. But for anything involving generative AI, I'd recommend a MacBook Pro with a lot of RAM. 🤖

Is the macbook pro even going to be enough or would I just be better off setting up a desktop as home with an nvidia gpu and executing over terminal? Honestly I just wish the air bumped up to 32gb RAM. These 8gb increments for $200 are ridiculous as is the fact it starts at 8gb.

 

[coffeemilktea]

Is the macbook pro even going to be enough or would I just be better off setting up a desktop as home with an nvidia gpu and executing over terminal? Honestly I just wish the air bumped up to 32gb RAM. These 8gb increments for $200 are ridiculous as is the fact it starts at 8gb.

Macs have one major advantage over a desktop with an NVIDIA GPU: the integrated GPU can access up to half of your system's RAM and use it as video memory, whereas NVIDIA's dedicated GPUs are limited to whatever VRAM they have.

So if you have a MacBook Pro with 64 GB of RAM, you effectively have 32 GB of VRAM for the GPU, whereas a top-of-the-line NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 only has 24 GB.

Of course, at this point you have to ask yourself exactly what you're planning to do, and how much you're willing to spend for it. If you want to work with image-based AI models like Stable Diffusion, for the money you spend, you're better off with a PC with a really powerful NVIDIA GPU. If you intend to work with text models, a Mac with lots of RAM may ultimately be the better choice.

Or you could just get a Mac Studio with 96+ GB of RAM and be happy either way, but you'll be paying an awful lot of money.

 

[hiddenpower]

Macs have one major advantage over a desktop with an NVIDIA GPU: the integrated GPU can access up to half of your system's RAM and use it as video memory, whereas NVIDIA's dedicated GPUs are limited to whatever VRAM they have.

So if you have a MacBook Pro with 64 GB of RAM, you effectively have 32 GB of VRAM for the GPU, whereas a top-of-the-line NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 only has 24 GB.

Of course, at this point you have to ask yourself exactly what you're planning to do, and how much you're willing to spend for it. If you want to work with image-based AI models like Stable Diffusion, for the money you spend, you're better off with a PC with a really powerful NVIDIA GPU. If you intend to work with text models, a Mac with lots of RAM may ultimately be the better choice.

Or you could just get a Mac Studio with 96+ GB of RAM and be happy either way, but you'll be paying an awful lot of money.

Good point. The main goal is portability and doing most of what I need most of the time. how much VRAM do you get on the air gpus? It sounds like the air could be comparable to a desktop machine in that case.

Will the device be good enough for the other goals of live streaming, video editing, and other coding tasks? I used my 2014 16gb MBP 750M GPU for a whopping 10 years.

 

[coffeemilktea]

Good point. The main goal is portability and doing most of what I need most of the time. how much VRAM do you get on the air gpus? It sounds like the air could be comparable to a desktop machine in that case.

Will the device be good enough for the other goals of live streaming, video editing, and other coding tasks? I used my 2014 16gb MBP 750M GPU for a whopping 10 years.

Since MacBook Airs can only have 24 GB of RAM at most, you'd be limited to 12 GB of VRAM, which is the same as an NVIDIA RTX 4070 (though I imagine the NVIDIA GPU would still have faster performance overall).

I've never used a MacBook Air for livestreaming, but I imagine it depends on exactly what you're streaming; if you're playing a graphically intensive game AND streaming it at the same time, you'll almost certainly run into throttling issues. If you're playing and streaming a less demanding game (for example, Stardew Valley), it shouldn't be a problem.

For programming and video editing, you should be completely fine, especially with 24 GB of RAM. 👌

 

[hiddenpower]

Since MacBook Airs can only have 24 GB of RAM at most, you'd be limited to 12 GB of VRAM, which is the same as an NVIDIA RTX 4070 (though I imagine the NVIDIA GPU would still have faster performance overall).

I've never used a MacBook Air for livestreaming, but I imagine it depends on exactly what you're streaming; if you're playing a graphically intensive game AND streaming it at the same time, you'll almost certainly run into throttling issues. If you're playing and streaming a less demanding game (for example, Stardew Valley), it shouldn't be a problem.

For programming and video editing, you should be completely fine, especially with 24 GB of RAM. 👌I

I assume the pro is also limited in gaming too though?

And how about those V-tubers and stuff I've seen on youtube / tiktok? Would that push either laptop too far? Air / pro

 

[Zorori]

M1 will handle programming just fine (Node, JVM, Docker, Kubernetes, various DBs, etc), it made my previous 2019 i7 15" MBP feel like an old budget laptop. AI might be a push, but I've never tried

So the M2/3 should handle this with ease

I don't think any of your requirements would be any trouble. Just return it if it can' handle it. But in 99% of cases, whatever your Intel MBP can do the M series chips can do without even breaking into a sweat -- and probably twice as fast

 

[hiddenpower]

M1 will handle programming just fine (Node, JVM, Docker, Kubernetes, various DBs, etc), it made my previous 2019 i7 15" MBP feel like an old budget laptop. AI might be a push, but I've never tried

So the M2/3 should handle this with ease

I don't think any of your requirements would be any trouble. Just return it if it can' handle it. But in 99% of cases, whatever your Intel MBP can do the M series chips can do without even breaking into a sweat -- and probably twice as fast

Thanks a lot. My intel macbook was really sweating with OBS or even quicktime recorder :O!

My work M1 macbook has a whopping 64GB RAM. I just checked activity monitor and 44GB is in use. This is generally because apple uses as much RAM as it possibly can right? My hunch is that it needs much less.

 

[coffeemilktea]

I assume the pro is also limited in gaming too though?

And how about those V-tubers and stuff I've seen on youtube / tiktok? Would that push either laptop too far? Air / pro

The Pro isn't limited in terms of hardware, but instead the issue is that there's not as many games available on the Mac in general. That said, you can kind of get around this by using a cloud gaming solution like NVIDIA's GeForce Now; if your game of choice is available on that platform, you can play it and stream it.

As for vtuber models... I've never tried it, so I have no idea. 🤷‍♂️

 

[hiddenpower]

The Pro isn't limited in terms of hardware, but instead the issue is that there's not as many games available on the Mac in general. That said, you can kind of get around this by using a cloud gaming solution like NVIDIA's GeForce Now; if your game of choice is available on that platform, you can play it and stream it.

As for vtuber models... I've never tried it, so I have no idea. 🤷‍♂️

well the gpu on a pro is surely weaker than nvidia cards no?

 

[coffeemilktea]

well the gpu on a pro is surely weaker than nvidia cards no?

You'll get better performance from any modern NVIDIA card for sure, but you can still play modern AAA games like Baldur's Gate 3 or Resident Evil Village on a MacBook Pro.

That said, if gaming + streaming is what's really important to you, you'd ultimately be better off getting a good PC with a nice graphics card. Unless the programming projects you had in mind are specific to Apple's platforms, I imagine you'd be better off overall with a good gaming laptop instead of a MacBook Air? 🤔

 

[hiddenpower]

You'll get better performance from any modern NVIDIA card for sure, but you can still play modern AAA games like Baldur's Gate 3 or Resident Evil Village on a MacBook Pro.

That said, if gaming + streaming is what's really important to you, you'd ultimately be better off getting a good PC with a nice graphics card. Unless the programming projects you had in mind are specific to Apple's platforms, I imagine you'd be better off overall with a good gaming laptop instead of a MacBook Air? 🤔

Yeah I'm mostly interested in a laptop for programming, portability, some light video editing. Gaming could be interesting, but like you said if I wanted to actually do that then I might as well get a desktop computer (or gaming laptop) over a macbook pro.

The winning duo: Gaming Rig + MBA

I wish they would bring back support for eGPUs .

 

[geta]

Yeah I'm mostly interested in a laptop for programming, portability, some light video editing. Gaming could be interesting, but like you said if I wanted to actually do that then I might as well get a desktop computer (or gaming laptop) over a macbook pro.

The winning duo: Gaming Rig + MBA

I wish they would bring back support for eGPUs .

That would be the best option.