15inch PowerBooks?

[Dr.DODO]

Kodawarisan translation #2

Kodawarisan posted an update news for the new 15” AlPB

New 15 inch PowerBook G4 affected by SARS
Due to worldwide scare of SARS, announcement of new 15 inch PowerBook G4 is being delayed significantly. According to the sources, announcement of new 15 inch PowerBook G4 was planned, but due to increase in number of SARS infected patients in Taiwan, there are delays in manufacture and shipment of this new model.

Same disclaimer as my first translation applies.

 

[moosecat]

Yesterday, on TechTV's Screen Savers, Leo LaPorte predicted (without saying what his evidence is) an unspecifed Powerbook update next week.

(For what it's worth, which ain't much.)

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: Just a thought.....

Originally posted by ac2102
but surely anything other than updating to the same standards set by the 17" and 12" Powerbooks would be overkill just before the WWDC. Anyway, surely Steve would love to present the latest Notebook if it was going to be anything special.

Well, yes and no. I'd say that if we see an upgrade now, whether it is a minor (15" brought up to similar standards to the 12" and 17"), or major (a new 970 based 15", for example), I really doubt we'll see an addition upgrade at the WWDC. (Perhaps we'd see the 12" and 17" brought up to being 970s, if we were to see the major upgrade.)

So, if you're betting on an upgrade at WWDC, don't expect anything between now and then. Not even 'updating to the same standards set by the 17" and 12" Powerbooks'.

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: Kodawarisan translation #2

Originally posted by Dr.DODO
Kodawarisan posted an update news for the new 15” AlPB

New 15 inch PowerBook G4 affected by SARS
Due to worldwide scare of SARS, announcement of new 15 inch PowerBook G4 is being delayed significantly. According to the sources, announcement of new 15 inch PowerBook G4 was planned, but due to increase in number of SARS infected patients in Taiwan, there are delays in manufacture and shipment of this new model.

Same disclaimer as my first translation applies.

Okay, now I think that this one is a bit far fetched. How long has SARS been a significant issue? How long has the new 15" PB been delayed? It just seems to me that these two numbers don't line up very well...

 

[Raiwong]

I'm waiting because I don't want something cool come out after I buy it, especially with lower price and better features. My ibook pretty much does everything apart from display and superdrive the things I need. Plus the ol 15" PB is becoming an old design after 2 years, even though it superceeds many PC notebooks.

I do prefer the new alubook looks and hinge design thats all it would take for me to buy a new PB, I don't see AE as neccesary as its card is expensive and b is still the standard and remains sufficient for everything.

Also I really HOPe the new PB will adopt one of those kickass graphic chips from radeons its ok if its 9000, still better then geforce.

 

[ZildjianKX]

Any new revision would be nice... but it would still be dumb to buy one until it has a 970 processor in it... because they will eventually get them.

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Any new revision would be nice... but it would still be dumb to buy one until it has a 970 processor in it... because they will eventually get them.

Alas, I must disagree with you here. Eventually, the PBs will get the 980 chip. Maybe even the 990 chip. Should we not buy one until we see one of these? Nah.

If you need the computing power, and we see an upgrade now, then buy. If we see an upgrade now that doesn't have the 970, then we likely won't see the 970 in the PBs until late this year, or early next year. As I said, if you need the computing power now, buy. You can always upgrade later.

 

[MacBoyX]

My 2 cents...

First of all we really have to let go of the hope of a 970 based PowerBook....why?

Well for one...no way a PB gets' the new chip before the PowerMac. No way.

Secondly, there is not even confirmation only speculation to the 970 and it seems much more likely to this MacFan that Steve would not "SLIP" something into an update but would more likely use a big press situation (maybe WWDC in place of MWNY) to announce a new major chip.

My guess is there will be an update soon just to bring the 15" PB in line with the 12 and 17. Expect Al casing and new keyboard (I would expect the backlight feature as people are really WOWed at it) maybe DDR. It will still be 1GHz. If it will be any higher then expect a full PB Line upgrade maybe 17/15 @ 1.25, a 15 at 1Ghz and the 12 still with the 867.

As far as why the 17 is the flagship... that's simple much like a BMW, they sell lots of 3 series but their "flagship" is the most expensive most feature packed car they make the 7series...same with the PB...the 17 HAS TO BE THE FLAGSHIP or no one will pay 3299 for it. The 15 will still be the bread and butter sweet spot but not a flagship.

 

[freundt]

More and more, I'm reasonably convinced that when the new 15" PowerBook is released it will be something to ooo and aahh over.

Ahh, snowy, here's to hoping you are right!

for the record...I do think you are.. most people assume the 17" is the flagship model, but I still think the 15" is. Why does larger screen make the 17" a flagship model? They sell way more 15"s than 17"s. So which model whould it make the most sense to make the fastest? The one people will buy, or the one they won't? (Cause the lapzilla is just way too big for most people).


Anyways, my incoherent ramblings are ending ...right about.... now

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacBoyX
My 2 cents...

First of all we really have to let go of the hope of a 970 based PowerBook....why?

Well for one...no way a PB gets' the new chip before the PowerMac. No way.

I am continually amazed when 970 PB nay-sayers bring this up. First, who said anything about the PB getting the 970 before the PM? I know that I certainly didn't. Personally, I believe that they are going to be announced roughly concurrently.

Second, why is it so unbelieveable that the 970 PB would be announced first? "Because it's never happened before"? But it has. The G3 was released in the PB before it was released in the PM. Again, this was a case of roughly concurrent release, but the PB was released a little over a week before the PM, if memory serves.

Secondly, there is not even confirmation only speculation to the 970 and it seems much more likely to this MacFan that Steve would not "SLIP" something into an update but would more likely use a big press situation (maybe WWDC in place of MWNY) to announce a new major chip.

Here again, who said anything about Steve or Apple wanting to 'slip' somthing in? Of course they are going to make a big press event out of it. However, the question remains whether that press event will be at an event like WWDC or MWNY, or if they will have a special event just for the launch of the 970.

My guess is there will be an update soon just to bring the 15" PB in line with the 12 and 17. Expect Al casing and new keyboard (I would expect the backlight feature as people are really WOWed at it) maybe DDR. It will still be 1GHz. If it will be any higher then expect a full PB Line upgrade maybe 17/15 @ 1.25, a 15 at 1Ghz and the 12 still with the 867.

I still say that we won't see >1GHz using the current generation of G4 in PBs. They're just too hot. So, if we see anything faster, it has to be something else (7457 - not yet available, as far as we know; 970 - open to speculation; 750GX - wide open to speculation). But, also, Apple has to know that the 15" is due for a speed bump, and simply updating it to have the same features as the 17" (AE, BT, etc.) really doesn't fit the bill.

As far as why the 17 is the flagship... that's simple much like a BMW, they sell lots of 3 series but their "flagship" is the most expensive most feature packed car they make the 7series...same with the PB...the 17 HAS TO BE THE FLAGSHIP or no one will pay 3299 for it. The 15 will still be the bread and butter sweet spot but not a flagship.

Now, I never said that the 17" shouldn't be updated, I just questioned the need to always make sure that the 17" has equal or better features than the 15". If the 15" is updated, and the 17" doesn't follow suit for a month, I really don't see that this would be a huge problem for Apple. The sales for the 17" are low, as it is a niche product. Letting them drop a little more for a month while that model is being updated.

Anyway, as always, these are simply my, somewhat informed, opinions...

 

[rog]

The G3 most certainly did not come out in a PB before towers. It came a while later slapped into the 603e based PBs, the 3400s or something like that.

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by rog
The G3 most certainly did not come out in a PB before towers. It came a while later slapped into the 603e based PBs, the 3400s or something like that.

Check your history. The original G3 PowerBook (aka 'Kanga', or 3500) was released about a week before the G3 Power Macs were released. Both were released in November of 1997.

 

[t^3]

For illustrative purposes,

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1997/november.html

 

[robmorris]

15inch PowerBooks?

I will be glad to see the new 15" books. But I do not look at the 17" as the top of the line, rather a different form factor from the 15" and that both the 15" and 17" are considered to be top of the line. They will always have the same processor speed, etc as options. The only difference is size...form factor. They really appeal to different sets of folks. The 12" on the other hand is limited in RAM, limited in cache, etc. It is not the same...and is a step down. With the introduction of the new 15", Apple will bring the 15" into the same style...and then will introduce new processors into both at the same time. I really feel that they will never let the 15" and 17" be different...they are both the top of the line...they just have different demographics. A friend at Apple has said the same thing. At least from that remark, I know how they look at it.

 

[fred_garvin]

Lets review the facts, not speculate

So many people say, the PB just can't be updated to the 970 this summer, without elaborating on their reasons. I am not an electrical engineer, so if anyone here is, comments would be welcomed.

From what I've read here's what we have:

G4 1Gz, .18, 21 watts typical/30 watts max. 1.3 v

970 1.2Gz, .13, 19 watts typical (? watts max) 1.1v

970 ?Gz, .09, something like 10-12 watts typical (? watts max) <= 1.1v

I'm not sure how to determine heat output. Is there a simple calculation for this based on the above stats?

Really when it comes down to it, the only factors to consider are electrical usage and heat output. It appears that a 970 at 1.2, or 1.0 Ghz if necessary would use less power and be cooler than the current G4. If this is true, then why can't a PB get a 970 very soon? Are we doubting that apple could have the motherboard designed and built so soon? If we are comfortable assuming desktop 970's within a few months, then the motherboard design relative to bus and chipsets is in place. How much effort does it take to reduce that mobo design to a portable form factor?

If my stats are incorrect, please correct them. Lets see some insight based on the facts we do know, and draw an educated guess on when apple could release a 970 PB.

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: Lets review the facts, not speculate

Originally posted by fred_garvin
So many people say, the PB just can't be updated to the 970 this summer, without elaborating on their reasons. I am not an electrical engineer, so if anyone here is, comments would be welcomed.

From what I've read here's what we have:

G4 1Gz, .18, 21 watts typical/30 watts max. 1.3 v

970 1.2Gz, .13, 19 watts typical (? watts max) 1.1v

970 ?Gz, .09, something like 10-12 watts typical (? watts max) <= 1.1v

I'm not sure how to determine heat output. Is there a simple calculation for this based on the above stats?

Really when it comes down to it, the only factors to consider are electrical usage and heat output. It appears that a 970 at 1.2, or 1.0 Ghz if necessary would use less power and be cooler than the current G4. If this is true, then why can't a PB get a 970 very soon? Are we doubting that apple could have the motherboard designed and built so soon? If we are comfortable assuming desktop 970's within a few months, then the motherboard design relative to bus and chipsets is in place. How much effort does it take to reduce that mobo design to a portable form factor?

If my stats are incorrect, please correct them. Lets see some insight based on the facts we do know, and draw an educated guess on when apple could release a 970 PB.

I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. The nay-sayers typically spout the arguments that (a) Apple would never release a 970 PB before releasing a 970 PM (something that I have really never argued with - I argue instead for concurrent release), (b) that, based on history, here pointing to the G4, Apple will probably take a year to release the 970 as a PowerBook (this overlooks the G3 which was released concurrently in both PowerBooks and Power Macs, and that the 970 is a very different chip than the G4), and (c) that the 15" PowerBook couldn't be upgraded to be more powerful than the 17". Hmm... Did I miss any? No others are jumping to mind (other than hand-waving comments about the 970 being too hot, when it is, as evidenced above, cooler than the current G4).

As far as heat output, the figure you look at is the chip power consumption. If the chip consumes 21watts of power, that power gets turned into heat, so the chip must then dissipate 21watts of heat. So, yes, from what we know the 970 is definitely cooler than the G4 at similar clock speeds, and even a little faster.

 

[chazmox]

I think those wishing for a 970 PB are letting their hope cloud their judgement.

Look at this from Apple's point of view:

1.) PowerMac sales are lanquishing and suffer from both the perception of and actual performance gap to Intel boxes.

2.) Powerbook sales are fairly brisk with some markets gaining market share.

3.) You have limited engineering resources.

4.) A new architecture is easier and quicker to design to fit a PowerMac than a PowerBook.

Therefore, unless Apple's motivation is to purposely let the PowerMac line lanquish, we will see the 970 in the PowerMac first.

I would like to see a 970 PB tommorrow too... but I'd also like to see alot of other things tomorrow that won't happpen either ( the list is long! )...

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by chazmox
I think those wishing for a 970 PB are letting their hope cloud their judgement.

Look at this from Apple's point of view:

1.) PowerMac sales are lanquishing and suffer from both the perception of and actual performance gap to Intel boxes.

2.) Powerbook sales are fairly brisk with some markets gaining market share.

3.) You have limited engineering resources.

4.) A new architecture is easier and quicker to design to fit a PowerMac than a PowerBook.

Therefore, unless Apple's motivation is to purposely let the PowerMac line lanquish, we will see the 970 in the PowerMac first.

I would like to see a 970 PB tommorrow too... but I'd also like to see alot of other things tomorrow that won't happpen either ( the list is long! )...

Yes, but we don't know how long Apple has had to prepare and engineer the new machines. Do you think that they just started last month? I don't see it as too far fetched that they could have both ready in a timely manner. And, while I agree with you the Power Mac is the higher priority, I don't think that it need completely eclipse (or be eclipsed by) a new PowerBook.

I guess it's all a matter of what Apple has had time to do. And, frankly, we don't know. But even if Apple only released the new 970 Power Mac next month, I seriously doubt that they'd release a new 15" G4 PowerBook if they had a new 970 PowerBook line in the queue just waiting for engineering to finish up and turn it over to production. In short, if the 970 is going to be seen in the PowerBooks in a reasonably short time frame, I expect that we'll see it when the new 15" PB is released. If we see a new 15" G4, then we're not going to see a 970 PowerBook for a little while yet.


93...

 

[mim]

Snowy, I want to think you're right and I know we've had similar converstations before...but I'm really uncertain now.

The thing is a revision to all the PB range right now (forgetting about the 17" late arrival...) would be right about on the 6 month timing. They may just up the screen resolutions (needed), give a better graphic's card and then do the 970's on a 0.09 process Dec/Jan.

However in your favour, no-one is going to convince me that Apple had 6+ months stock of 15"TiBook's that they're waiting to dwindle down. That's got to be rubbish. They must be manufactured in much smaller batches than that (how many 1000 is 6 month's worth?).

They could have run stocks out ages ago if they just wanted to change to the Au case. The 15" and 17" must share the same motherboard....so why the delay? A new chip is a strong possibility. But then also maybe Apple just ran out of widget X.

BTW, I don't see why people are in a fluster about the 17" not being upgraded if the 15" is. Like I said, if they don't share the exact same everything except screen, I'll eat my sig.

<edit: fixed typo's>

 

[mim]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
93...

Heh...just figured it out.

Got a tar in mind?

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by mim
Snowy, I want to think you're right and I know we've had similar converstations before...but I'm really uncertain now.

The thing is a revision to all the PB range right now (forgetting about the 17" late arrival...) would be right about on the 6 month timing. They may just up the screen resolutions (needed), give a better graphic's card and then do the 970's on a 0.09 process Dec/Jan.
...

Yes. I will freely grant that this is a distinct possibility. I do hope that this isn't the case, though. Although I am one who says the G4 is too hot to place a faster chip in a 'Book, I hope that if we don't get a 970 we at least do get a faster G4 in the interim.

Heh...just figured it out.

Got a tar in mind?

There are a couple of possibilities...


85...

 

[chazmox]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Yes, but we don't know how long Apple has had to prepare and engineer the new machines. Do you think that they just started last month? I don't see it as too far fetched that they could have both ready in a timely manner. And, while I agree with you the Power Mac is the higher priority, I don't think that it need completely eclipse (or be eclipsed by) a new PowerBook.

None of my comments indicated that I believed or implied that they started last month. However, if both projects were to start the same day, given the same resources, then the PowerMac would be finished first. Do you think Apple would hold up on releasing the PowerMac? No, they would want to get that finished product to the market ASAP and would move the developer's conference up so that they could make their big announcement. They wouldn't wait for the PowerBook to be finished... in fact it would make more sense to announce separately since they would both be big releases.

Originally posted by Snowy_River

I guess it's all a matter of what Apple has had time to do. And, frankly, we don't know. But even if Apple only released the new 970 Power Mac next month, I seriously doubt that they'd release a new 15" G4 PowerBook if they had a new 970 PowerBook line in the queue just waiting for engineering to finish up and turn it over to production. In short, if the 970 is going to be seen in the PowerBooks in a reasonably short time frame, I expect that we'll see it when the new 15" PB is released. If we see a new 15" G4, then we're not going to see a 970 PowerBook for a little while yet.

But here your letting the tail wag the dog... there is no indication that they would release a G4 AL PB and then a 970 PB a short time after...

 

[Raiwong]

in theory the 970 will work for a PB, but then so is many proccesors if you use the energy input theory, there is more to the eye. The proccesors has a core and multiple modules and caches around it, if it was so easy then we could snap in a radeon 9800 pro in theory, if we apply the watt consumption, but wait we need all those chips on the graphics board. The whole CPU board needs to be minimized into a laptop, heat is a issue but the whole circuit needs to take some major redesign, on the other hand it could be integrated into a power mac much easier, because there is space.

In addition the 1 inch design of the PB, only leaves less space. I'm sure a 970 could be put in a PB, but still surely there must be much more design feats then we can imagine, since most of us dont' do computer science.

And it would be damn weird if there was a 15" PB with 970, then the 17" with a tiny G4 1ghz, and the ibooks, afterwards the powermacs features G4 1.42 ghz. Yeah what about all those people waiting for a fast desktop solution?

My guess is that the 15" will be updated with a G4, and PM will come with 970 in june afterwards in late this year we will see 970 powerbooks , actually there is still the imacs so

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by chazmox
None of my comments indicated that I believed or implied that they started last month. However, if both projects were to start the same day, given the same resources, then the PowerMac would be finished first. Do you think Apple would hold up on releasing the PowerMac? No, they would want to get that finished product to the market ASAP and would move the developer's conference up so that they could make their big announcement. They wouldn't wait for the PowerBook to be finished... in fact it would make more sense to announce separately since they would both be big releases.

Yes, but that assumes that they could deliver the product as soon as the board engineering is done. In reality, what almost universally holds back product releases in this area is the lack of having the actual processor in sufficient quantities. Now, if they have been working on both projects for over a year now, is it so hard to believe that they would have finished both and just been waiting for the processors to be produced in quantity by IBM? That is the premise of my argument that they would ship both concurrently.

But here your letting the tail wag the dog... there is no indication that they would release a G4 AL PB and then a 970 PB a short time after...

Okay, here you're making my point. If they have a new 970 PB almost ready to go, they most likely won't release an updated G4 PB. Therefore, if a new G4 PB appears, we can be reasonably assured it will be a little while before the 970 PB will be ready. Simple logic.


83...

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Raiwong
...
And it would be damn weird if there was a 15" PB with 970, then the 17" with a tiny G4 1ghz, and the ibooks, afterwards the powermacs features G4 1.42 ghz. Yeah what about all those people waiting for a fast desktop solution?
...

I do get tired of this...

How many times have I said that I'm not arguing that the PB will be given the 970 and the PM will not. I think that we'll see a concurrent release, if we see a PB 970. And, if we do see a PB970, we will certainly see it across the entire PB line.


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