30-bit photo software

[Dutch60]

Does anyone know of photo software /photo application besides Photoshop, that supports 30-bits colours (10-bit per channel)? iMac supports it, my Eizo supports it; all hardware is good to go, but there doesn't seem to be any photo application/software that can actually show this on screen, beside Photoshop?
Or maybe there is?
Thank you!

 

[gilby101]

Do you really need 10 bit per channel? Most general purpose photo editors I know (e.g. Pixelmator, Acorn, Affinity, Photoshop) work in either 8 or 16 bit. So work in 16-bit and let your GPU and monitor do their best.

 

[Dutch60]

I obviously don' t need it as much as food and water, but I would like my iMac and especially my Eizo do what they' re (also) made for. See what I' m doing to the max, before printing.
More colours and more able to edit before artefacts show up (like banding)

 

[bogdanw]

GIMP https://www.gimp.org
https://docs.gimp.org/2.10/en/gimp-image-precision.html

 

[Dutch60]

Thank you. Can GIMP actually display10-bit per channel display color depth? (So 30-bit deep colour display)?
So, more color range, better gradients, no banding (or much less banding)?

 

[bogdanw]

High bit depth support allows processing images with up to 32-bit per color channel precision and open/export PSD, TIFF, PNG, EXR, and RGBE files in their native fidelity. Additionally, FITS images can be opened with up to 64-bit per channel precision.

https://docs.gimp.org/2.10/en/gimp-introduction-history-2-10.html

 

[Dutch60]

Maybe I' m wrong here, but there' s more software that can actually process 8-bit/16-bit/32-bit files. Many times though it can not display 10-bit colour (same as many monitors cannot). Displaying is different from processing.

 

[bogdanw]

If you can’t tell the difference by looking at it, what’s the point of this discussion?

 

[Dutch60]

Well, you can tell the difference by looking at it. Without such software, in images/photos banding is visible much sooner. Also less details in shadows. Working/editing photo files is much more effective when seeing all those colour nuances. More monitors are 10-bit colour capable (bit depth), but that' s hardly any good if the software isn' t cable of showing this. iMac 5k screens have 30-bits color (ARGB2101010) since a few years already. I' m actually looking for a (photo) application that can display this for grading images....beside Photoshop (which seems to be the only photo).
Just to illustrate....(for video)...only posted today in DPReview:

DJI Mini 3 Pro 10-bit video: What you need to know

When DJI first released its Mini 3 Pro drone, it was noticeably missing the ability to capture 10-bit video footage. Firmware updates have unlocked this key feature so we shot a few tests to try it out.

www.dpreview.com

 

[bogdanw]

Well, you can tell the difference by looking at it

Well, you can test both with your images, GIMP is free and Photoshop has a trial version https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/free-trial-download.html

 

[Dutch60]

I know Photoshop works. Don' t want to use that and that's why I asked for software other than Photoshop. I doubt GIMP can do this (reading information on internet), but I can try.
Thank you.

 

[gilby101]

Seems to me you are mixing up processing and displaying.

All the photo processing apps I have tried (see my earlier post) can process in at least both 8 and 16 bit. So process in 16 bit.

Is your question really about how to get macOS and your Eizo to work together and display in better than 8 bit?

Well, you can tell the difference by looking at it. Without such software, in images/photos banding is visible much sooner. Also less details in shadows. Working/editing photo files is much more effective when seeing all those colour nuances. More monitors are 10-bit colour capable (bit depth), but that' s hardly any good if the software isn' t cable of showing this. iMac 5k screens have 30-bits color (ARGB2101010) since a few years already. I' m actually looking for a (photo) application that can display this for grading images....beside Photoshop (which seems to be the only photo).
Just to illustrate....(for video)...only posted today in DPReview:

DJI Mini 3 Pro 10-bit video: What you need to know

When DJI first released its Mini 3 Pro drone, it was noticeably missing the ability to capture 10-bit video footage. Firmware updates have unlocked this key feature so we shot a few tests to try it out.

www.dpreview.com

I don't see why this is relevant. Is this thread about video or photo? Your opening post suggests still photo. And that link is about the recording steps, not processing or displaying. Most moderately decent cameras take photos with 12 to 14 bits.

 

[HDFan]

Just to illustrate....(for video)...only posted today in DPReview:

Not a good example. The 8 bit shot is clearly sub par with off colors. Maybe that's typical for a drone camera, but that is not a picture that any decent camera would take.

 

[Dutch60]

@gilby101 . It’s about photo. The example is not good. I should not have posted that. Sorry about that. You’re right in that most cameras can take images with 12/14 bits.
It’s about photo software that can actually display 10/30-bit colours. not about iMac and Eizo working together to get more than 8-bit. Only the photo software that I can work in (and is capable of showing 10-bit bpc on my capable screens).
I hope, I made myself clear now and no more (and not bring in more confusion)

 

[Dutch60]

Not a good example. The 8 bit shot is clearly sub par with off colors. Maybe that's typical for a drone camera, but that is not a picture that any decent camera would take.

@HDFan . You’re absolutely right. That example was not good. On iPhone yesterday and busy. Should not have posted that quickly.
Sorry about that

 

[Dutch60]

Seems to me you are mixing up processing and displaying.

All the photo processing apps I have tried (see my earlier post) can process in at least both 8 and 16 bit. So process in 16 bit.

Is your question really about how to get macOS and your Eizo to work together and display in better than 8 bit?


I don't see why this is relevant. Is this thread about video or photo? Your opening post suggests still photo. And that link is about the recording steps, not processing or displaying. Most moderately decent cameras take photos with 12 to 14 bits.

Just to quote a poster on another website (he' s probably clearer than I am):

"...8bit/10bit is viewing bit depth (between your GPU and display). It tells how smooth gradients will be as there will be more colors in 10bit mode because there are no longer 256 gradation steps but 1024.

Another thing is archiving bit depth (document mode). It may be RGB/8, RGB/16, RGB32, etc. It determines how color data will be stored in file when saved.

So we may find ourselves working with RGB/8 document on a 30bit display and we also may work with RGB/16 image on a cheap 6bit+FRC display which is barely reaches 24bit with frame rate control.

As far as I know, Photoshop does support 30bit viewing mode. At least it does on my Mac system. Gradients are much smoother in this mode....."

 

[bogdanw]

As far as I know, Photoshop does support 30bit viewing mode. At least it does on my Mac system.

Can we get an official source for that?
I couldn’t find Adobe explicitly telling what viewing modes Photoshop supports.
Bit depth https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/bit-depth.html
High dynamic range images https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/high-dynamic-range-images.html

Gradients are much smoother in this mode....."

Is there an objective way of telling what an app displays?

 

[Dutch60]

I don' t know what official source you' re looking for, but according to Eizo Netherlands who I contacted this week, to their knowledge Photoshop is the only application/software that can actually show 30-bit colours. That they where certain of. They'll look for possible other software as well..and contact me again. I hope, that' s a promise they' ll keep.
Some articles with information:
1.
(This is an older article...Photoshop is mentioned in here)

What is a 30 Bit Photography Workflow?

photographylife.com

2.

How to enable 30 bit in Photoshop

After choosing a 10-bit per channel graphics card (AMD Radeon Pro / Nvidia Quadro), and connecting it to a 10-bit per channel monitor, there is a setting in Photoshop you should enable to create a 30 bit workflow.

www.pugetsystems.com

3.
(from Eizo)

How to Achieve 10-Bit Display Using Adobe Photoshop desktop (ver.18 or later), NVIDIA Quadro, and AMD Radeon Pro/FirePro with ColorEdge Monitors | EIZO

EIZO is a visual technology company that manufactures high-end monitors and display solutions for business, graphics, home entertainment, healthcare, maritime, security/surveillance, ATC and defense/aerospace.

www.eizoglobal.com

4.
(older information still)

Adobe Quietly Added 10-Bit Color to Photoshop CC on OS X: Here's How to Enable It

In October 2015, Apple quietly unlocked 10-bit color in its release of the OS X El Capitan operating system update. 3rd party software didn't support the

petapixel.com

(and more about this on the internet).


I also found this discussion on Adobe forums interesting:

Re: Can't seem to get 30 bit view

Have you also set 10 bit in the GPU driver? This is the relevant setting in the current NVidia driver for their RTX cards: Dave

community.adobe.com

As for: "....Gradients are much smoother in this mode....." ....that is according to another poster on another website who obviously uses Photoshop and has a 10-bit monitor.

 

[bogdanw]

I don' t know what official source you' re looking for

An official source is Adobe or another developer of an app that does what you are looking for.
Opinions from the Internet are many https://photo.stackexchange.com/a/48324

digiKam supports 16 bits/channel images, is a free image management package supports colour management. It is also available for Windows & Mac. I suspect it is exactly what you are looking for.
Keep an eye open for the release of GIMP 2.10 - no fixed due date yet - as this is expected to be using the GEGL engine and working in your choice of 8 bit/channel, 16 bit/channel or 32 bits/channel in integer or float format, see here.

digiKam https://www.digikam.org

 

[Dutch60]

Thnxs again bogdanw. I' ll search further.

 

[Superhai]

Pixelmator Pro are able to display more than 8 bpc, also Preview and Safari does.
I use the test images here https://github.com/jursonovicst/gradient to check different apps, it is easiest to see on the green and gray bars.

 

[gilby101]

Maybe I' m wrong here, but there' s more software that can actually process 8-bit/16-bit/32-bit files. Many times though it can not display 10-bit colour (same as many monitors cannot). Displaying is different from processing.

Sorry, I was too direct in my earlier posts and caused/showed confusion.

Based on the gradient png linked by @Superhai, and looking mostly at the grey, by eyeballing my results are:

Does display 10 bit: Photoshop 2022, Lightroom Classic, Pixelmator Pro, Acorn, Aurora HDR 2018, Apple Photos, Safari, Preview.
Only 8 Bit display: Affinity Photo (that surprised me), Digikam, Brave, Firefox.
All the photo editors above can process in 16 bit or better (not sure about Photos).
I have deliberately included some browsers and Preview.
With exception of Aurora HDR 2018, all apps with current version running on macOS 12.5.1 and iMac 2019 27".

So my recommendation for a suitable 10-bit display photo editing app is Pixelmator Pro which is functionally similar to photo editing with Photoshop. But maybe test Photos first as it is free.

 

[bogdanw]

Does display 10 bit: Safari,

Not so sure about Safari
https://www.whatsmybrowser.org
https://www.w3schools.com/jsref/tryit.asp?filename=tryjsref_screen_all

 

[gilby101]

Not so sure about Safari
https://www.whatsmybrowser.org
https://www.w3schools.com/jsref/tryit.asp?filename=tryjsref_screen_all

Have you tried looking at a 30 bit (or more) image in Safari? My results was based on eyeballing the gradient linked before (and other similar), and not on what browser scripting is reporting to a web server.

I don't know much about javacripting, but https://www.w3schools.com/jsref/prop_screen_colordepth.asp says values for colour.depth are 1, 4, 8, 15, 16, 24, 32, or 48. So not surprising that javascript says only 24 bits per pixel.

 

[gilby101]

digiKam https://www.digikam.org

Digikam processes in 16-bit, but my eyeballing says it displays in 8-bit on a 2019 iMac.