Adventures with Windows and Linux

[engbren]

I recently acquired a Lenovo Yoga 7 14-ARB7 which came with Windows 11 Home and has some interesting specs:

• AMD Ryzen 5 6600u processor
• 16GB LPDDR5 SDRAM
• 512GB m.2 NVME SSD
• 2.8k OLED screen, 100% DCI-P3 coverage

Unlike my other recent Lenovo purchase, Windows on this machine has been quite unstable. My needs for a daily driver are relatively modest, I essentially need Chrome or a Chromium based browser to access GSuite docs, Gmail, Google Meets etc. As such, I thought I would give Linux a go. This is where things got interesting:

• Ubuntu 22.10 - I tried the Live USB and whilst it booted and the touchscreen worked, the keyboard, trackpad, wifi and sound were all not working. I did some research and decided to try Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
• Ubuntu 22.04 LTS - To my surprise, keyboard, trackpad, wifi all working. I was able to configure the Gnome environment to feel a lot more like macOS and the font rendering looks superb. There were very slow frame rates from the webcam. However, I discover after installing that suspend and resume do not work. More specifically, upon resume, I got a corrupted mouse/trackpad cursor, a login screen that I could type into but the enter key did not work. Again, reading up I discovered AMD has been doing a lot of work on the Linux kernel, so I installed a later kernel from the mainline kernels. No fix for suspend / resume and to boot this kernel required disabling Secure Boot. I looked for a distribution which had an even more recent kernel and would support Secure Boot.
• Opensuse Tumbleweed - the install of OpenSuse tumbleweed achieved the same net result. ie Suspend and Resume not working. However, it did provide a console message that let me track down an issue with the nvme firmware that was known. Essentially upon resume the nvme was changing its ID and was therefore being disregarded by the kernel upon resume. There was a kernel patch known but the kernel team have a policy against implementing it. This meant that to patch it required recompiling the kernel.
• I reinstalled Ubuntu 22.04, downloaded the latest kernel source code, applied the patch to the source code that had been identified by someone else (a single line of code), compiled and installed my updated Linux kernel. Rebooted the machine, closed the lid and opened it. No corrupt mouse cursor, the login screen worked. My machine fully resumed. Suspicious, I closed the lid and re-opened a few more times and resume was working each time.

After getting suspend and resume to work, there were a few more things to sort out:

• The sound from the speakers was very muffled - it turned out Linux was only driving the tweeters not the woofers. I found a script that enabled all four speakers and sound output working;
• Microphone array - unfortunately, the microphone array is producing very quiet recordings to the point of the microphone being unusable. I haven't found a solution for this yet aside from using an external microphone, either a dedicated microphone or part of a bluetooth headset;

After using it for a few days, thinking it was relatively stable, I ran into a screen flickering issue. It looks like there's a couple of known solutions to this intermittent issue and it looks like I will need to patch and recompile the kernel again.

It is fair to say that trying to use Linux has not been as easy as it first seemed.

 

[ghanwani]

From other forums I gather Linux Mint is one of the easier ones.

Home - Linux Mint

Linux Mint is an elegant, easy to use, up to date and comfortable desktop operating system.

linuxmint.com

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Some good linux distros are Mint, garuda, zorin OS and elementary OS. All of these look and work differently, but all are user friendly and fun to try!

good luck!

 

[maflynn]

I'm partial to PopOS, it adds a certain level of polish and improvements to Ubunutu

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Forgot PopOS!. That's another.

 

[engbren]

The problem for me at least is firmware and kernel related and not distro related. The nvme ssd is a Samsung part that is an OEM part released by Lenovo. It has a fault in the firmware that has been fixed by Samsung in an updated firmware. However, Lenovo as the OEM for the part has not released a firmware update for it. This has resulted in the Linux kernel team rejecting the patch for the kernel as it is their policy not to implement a quirk (kernel terminology) when a firmware fix is available.
As such, the only way to get suspend and resume to work is to either:

1. Replace the nvme ssd;
2. Wait for Lenovo to release the updated firmware (apparently it was released to them in December and is still not released to users); or
3. Patch the kernel source code with the known quirk, compile the kernel and install.

I went down option 3. Now I have run into a seperate problem (the screen flicker) which looks like an AMD driver issue in the kernel version I used. I need to look at patching a different version. If I used Mint, or Pop, or Elementary I would run into the same issue as the kernel with the quirk I need is not released as part of a distro.

 

[coffeemilktea]

Unlike my other recent Lenovo purchase, Windows on this machine has been quite unstable.

If both Windows AND Linux are acting up on this machine, my immediate guess is that the problem isn't with the OS, but with the hardware itself. 😩

 

[engbren]

If both Windows AND Linux are acting up on this machine, my immediate guess is that the problem isn't with the OS, but with the hardware itself.

Yes - unfortunately there is a widely experienced issue with this model on Windows that has become known as Keyboard Lag. Theres a 22 page thread on it on Lenovo's forums here: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo...-or-when-Vantage-is-opened/m-p/5174991?page=1

Lenovo has in the last few days issued an experimental bios to fix the issue which is looking promising and will make Windows much more reliable. The keyboard lag issue is not experienced in Linux at all. However, per my OP, there are a number of other issues experienced in Linux. The latest one - the screen flicker - appears to be a regression. It is a bug introduced to the Linux kernel relating to the AMD GPU in the version of the kernel that I patched to resolve the Samsung SSD issue.

 

[drugdoubles]

From other forums I gather Linux Mint is one of the easier ones.

Home - Linux Mint

Linux Mint is an elegant, easy to use, up to date and comfortable desktop operating system.

linuxmint.com

Not when you need to have a major version upgrade. Ubuntu one click, this lol

 

[TheOtherAndy]

If both Windows AND Linux are acting up on this machine, my immediate guess is that the problem isn't with the OS, but with the hardware itself. 😩

Probably. It's Lenovo consumer hardware. Junk.

Does the microphone work well in Windows? I had a 15" Lenovo Yoga with a totally useless microphone. Sent it in for repair and 3 months later (you read that right) it came back still not working and with additional damage from the technician. Gave up and sold it on eBay. Their quality control is sub-par and their support is atrocious, but it was a slick machine otherwise.

Linux and AMD are unfortunately always a risky combination.

 

[engbren]

I gave up on Linux on this machine as I just didn't have the time to dedicate to resolve the various issues I encountered. There is a commitment from Lenovo to release an updated firmware for the SSD sometime this month which will resolve the issue with suspend/resume for most users on Linux. It will likely also mean that the screen flicker issue is resolved as that was caused by my use of a more "bleeding edge" kernel. The stable kernels did not have this issue. The microphone I never got working properly in Linux but it works perfectly in Windows.

Lenovo have also since released an updated firmware that resolves the keyboard lag issue affecting this model. This issue was only prevalent in Windows. There is one defect still remaining for Lenovo to resolve which is a frequent BSOD in Windows reported by many users. I don't think they will make progress on that one as they have identified a possible cause from various memory dumps supplied by users but cannot replicate the issue and cannot figure out how the issue occurs. There is a straightforward workaround that eliminates the BSOD. The workaround disables tablet mode which I use very infrequently and thus this workaround works for me.

 

[Algus]

Yeah that is my story of why I stopped using Linux as my main OS and migrated back to MacOS.

I had replaced my iBook G4 with a Dell Vostro 1400 circa 2008. This laptop was pretty popular in laptop communities at the time because it was relatively affordable and packed a GeForce 8400 so it could do some good things with computer games. I ran Vista for about six months before I switched to dual boot and finally realized I wasn't ever playing games on it so I just wiped the Windows partition and installed Ubuntu as the only OS.

I liked it well enough. Ubuntu is a nice OS to use when everything works but having to fix problems was such a pain in the butt and often tech support went down to asking for help on web forums and hoping someone had a similar issue to you and could provide some technical support.

Once I had the cash (subprime mortgage crisis was not kind to me and by far the lowest point of my life), I ended up going with a Mac mini 2012 (which I am still using to this day!) and man what a breath of fresh air. Most of the stuff I learned from Linux applied to the command line but I never had to fix bugs myself.

I still like Linux a lot and if for some reason I fell into hard times again and had to replace everything, I could see myself using it as my main OS, but I'm definitely happier on MacOS.

 

[Technerd108]

In my experience Lenovo makes it difficult to install and use a Linux distro on their hardware. They want you to buy a Lenovo with Linux pre-installed which is a very limited selection of laptops they offer. On top of that it seems more expensive to buy a Lenovo with Linux installed. It is very unfortunate as the hardware lenovo offers is good.

I tried a few times with various Lenovo laptops and even one with AMD and another with Intel. I had firmware issues and could not get audio or other pretty important things to work. I tried various distros. Debian, Ubuntu, Pop OS, Mandriva, Mint, Slack, etc. never could get anything to work 100%.

I since started to look for pre-installed Linux machines and the problem I ran into was they were either more expensive for the same hardware in Windows, cheap plastic builds, poor screens, poor specs or outrageously expensive.

This was about a year ago. Since then I have given up on Linux. It is just too much of a headache. When I did get a laptop to work well in the past the driver optimization wasn't good so my battery life would suffer or fan control was not working correctly. The other thing that would really get to me was updates. Either updates with packages or kernel updates. I would always get something that didn't update correctly or I would get a kernel update that would bork the machine and would have to re-install.

Now I am just using Windows or MacOS and while I like the premise of open source software and prefer to use it, in my day to day practical use it is just not something I want to deal with. Sharing Open Office windows format files and writing a resume only to have the formatting screw up on potential employers when they view it or peripheral's not playing nice. Then there is the support angle which means you need to go on a forum and hope either someone will help you or there is a thread where someone had the same issue and resolved it.

I like tinkering and configuring but I also need stuff to work without a headache all the time.

If I ever try Linux again I think I will build a custom desktop PC that I use only components I know will work with Linux. It is a great OS and there are so many great distros but fragmentation is a problem. Also until people can go into a BestBuy and buy a linux based laptop with support and a warranty I don't think it will ever be mainstream.

 

[maflynn]

I gave up on Linux on this machine as I just didn't have the time to dedicate to resolve the various issues I encountered.

That's the bottom line, and imo, its never ending. Update the OS, and all of a sudden some things that did work, no longer. I recall in some thread here, one member was crowing at how his Linux install was fundamentally faster at playing games then windows and he was proud that that he spent hours upon hours tweaking it to get things working just right for him - that's great but at the end of the day, while he was messing with his system trying to his game to have sound or play smoothly, I was already playing my game problem free.

Many people have great luck with Linux, don't need to mess too much or love the idea of digging into the guts of a operating system. For me, I want the apps I need to work, and I at this point in my life I just don't want to be messing with trying to get things to work

 

[engbren]

For me, I want the apps I need to work, and I at this point in my life I just don't want to be messing with trying to get things to work

Exactly right - I just want it to work and work reliably. For this laptop, Windows works better. I have the ability to tinker and modify kernels and recompile but I just can’t spare the time.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I've ran a Mint desktop for three years with no issues and I am a lifelong Windows user who recently switched to Mac for personal stuff.

Linux had got very stable. At least some distros.

However, it just doesn't have the software breath of Windows, nor the integration with mobile devices that Mac has.

And most of the software that it does have is a tad... homely.

So, even a dependably stable Linux distro is, at the end of the day, just a less useable OS compared to the other two ecosystems that I use. Purely from my perspective - this is of course not the case for everyone.

 

[bababhuvaneshus]

In "Experiences with Windows and Linux," leave on an undeniably exhilarating excursion investigating the best of both working frameworks. Find the easy-to-understand interface and broad programming library of Windows, ideal for ordinary undertakings and gaming.

Shift gears to Linux, a strong and adaptable operating system, digging into its open-source nature and a huge swath of conveyances. Disentangle the delights and difficulties of exploring two unmistakable universes, each offering remarkable advantages and encounters.

You'll learn more about technology, improve your ability to solve problems, and discover new digital opportunities as you navigate these adventures. To create a seamless and enriching computing experience, take advantage of the best features of Linux and Windows.

 

[retta283]

In "Experiences with Windows and Linux," leave on an undeniably exhilarating excursion investigating the best of both working frameworks. Find the easy-to-understand interface and broad programming library of Windows, ideal for ordinary undertakings and gaming.

Shift gears to Linux, a strong and adaptable operating system, digging into its open-source nature and a huge swath of conveyances. Disentangle the delights and difficulties of exploring two unmistakable universes, each offering remarkable advantages and encounters.

You'll learn more about technology, improve your ability to solve problems, and discover new digital opportunities as you navigate these adventures. To create a seamless and enriching computing experience, take advantage of the best features of Linux and Windows.

Is this written by AI?