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Alternative laptop to Mac
- Thread starter Glennster
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Build quality? Easy. The top end ultrabooks from almost any OEMs (HP, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, and even brands like MSi and Razer) all are already head to head with Apple in terms of materials and build quality.
As for performance, we have to look into heat and battery life for laptops, not just CPU/GPU performance. In this case, nothing beats the M1. Even for CPU performance, you have to go with 11th gen i7 intel to close the gap, but heat and battery life of intel are still disappointing.
For life cycle, any Windows laptop will beat Apple's offerings. Apple tends to just drop support after 5+ years after the last manufacturing date, including OS support. This might be acceptable for iPhones or iPads, but imo too short for desktops/laptops. This is in contrast with Windows that still support laptops from 10+ years ago.
As for cost, disregarding the performance part, you can usually find Windows laptops with more storage and RAM than an equivalently priced Mac. Eg. where Apple starts at 256GB SSD, Windows side probably will have 512GB standard. But I don't see prices free falling yet. I was expecting intel laptops to really dive in price due to the performance per watt of the M1, but this has not happened yet.
In short, for less than the Macbook Air, you can probably get a premium laptop with more RAM and storage, but the performance per watt of the M1 is still unmatched.
Just a quick example: Asus Zenbook flip, core i7, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, $999.
As for performance, we have to look into heat and battery life for laptops, not just CPU/GPU performance. In this case, nothing beats the M1. Even for CPU performance, you have to go with 11th gen i7 intel to close the gap, but heat and battery life of intel are still disappointing.
For life cycle, any Windows laptop will beat Apple's offerings. Apple tends to just drop support after 5+ years after the last manufacturing date, including OS support. This might be acceptable for iPhones or iPads, but imo too short for desktops/laptops. This is in contrast with Windows that still support laptops from 10+ years ago.
As for cost, disregarding the performance part, you can usually find Windows laptops with more storage and RAM than an equivalently priced Mac. Eg. where Apple starts at 256GB SSD, Windows side probably will have 512GB standard. But I don't see prices free falling yet. I was expecting intel laptops to really dive in price due to the performance per watt of the M1, but this has not happened yet.
In short, for less than the Macbook Air, you can probably get a premium laptop with more RAM and storage, but the performance per watt of the M1 is still unmatched.
Just a quick example: Asus Zenbook flip, core i7, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, $999.
Think you may need to add to your list external connectivity given Gen 1 AS MBA are restricted, Most good W10 OEM's you can at least swap SSD as a min, battery and other components replacement costs post 3 years. As most W10 laptops come with touch they tend to have tougher screens coverings/laminates, so there is a gain even if you never use touch
You are far more likely to get a $700 bill to fix your MBA given Apple pricing, right to repair status and construction methods and even promises of higher resale value are unlikely to offset many costs
Having said that many laptops these days are almost disposable items after 3 or 4 years there are few if any win win's
I replaced a $1650 MacBook Air 2019 with a $750 Acer Swift 3 about nine months ago.
Yes, the Mac was a better system. However the Acer ultrabook did what I need to accomplish on the go at basically half the cost.
There are hidden costs/benefits. Macs come with a great suite of useful software (iWork, iLife). Windows PCs have a bunch of annoying bloatware that demands my attention to remove.
I used to think that Macs were better constructed than comparable Windows systems but today I'm not so sure.
Notebook computers are always a little iffy in terms of lifespan. With my current approach, I expect my Acer Swift will start showing its age in three years. Yes, it could last 7+ years with full Windows OS support from Microsoft but I didn't buy it expecting this outcome.
So what's better? A $1650 MacBook that lasts six years ($275/year cost of ownership) or a $750 Windows ultrabook that last three years ($250/year cost of ownership).
In the end it comes down to what your individual usage case is and how well the device fulfills your specific needs. Sure, once I add a $30 MS Office 2019 software key and maybe a few more bucks to multimedia apps, the Windows cost-of-ownership is quite close to the Mac.
Let's review what an operating system is. An operating system is a big complicated program that lets other big complicated programs co-exist peacefully on the same system. I don't run macOS or Windows to run macOS or Windows. I run those operating systems to run other programs.
If I want to run Quicken for Windows and the Windows version of Microsoft Excel, yeah, it's better that whatever I run can boot Windows. Same if I want to play one of the Resident Evil game titles.
Yes, the Mac was a better system. However the Acer ultrabook did what I need to accomplish on the go at basically half the cost.
There are hidden costs/benefits. Macs come with a great suite of useful software (iWork, iLife). Windows PCs have a bunch of annoying bloatware that demands my attention to remove.
I used to think that Macs were better constructed than comparable Windows systems but today I'm not so sure.
Notebook computers are always a little iffy in terms of lifespan. With my current approach, I expect my Acer Swift will start showing its age in three years. Yes, it could last 7+ years with full Windows OS support from Microsoft but I didn't buy it expecting this outcome.
So what's better? A $1650 MacBook that lasts six years ($275/year cost of ownership) or a $750 Windows ultrabook that last three years ($250/year cost of ownership).
In the end it comes down to what your individual usage case is and how well the device fulfills your specific needs. Sure, once I add a $30 MS Office 2019 software key and maybe a few more bucks to multimedia apps, the Windows cost-of-ownership is quite close to the Mac.
Let's review what an operating system is. An operating system is a big complicated program that lets other big complicated programs co-exist peacefully on the same system. I don't run macOS or Windows to run macOS or Windows. I run those operating systems to run other programs.
If I want to run Quicken for Windows and the Windows version of Microsoft Excel, yeah, it's better that whatever I run can boot Windows. Same if I want to play one of the Resident Evil game titles.
Not to steer the conversation too far off course, but I really disagree with this assessment. I have an unhealthy addiction to cool gadgets and notebooks in particular. I literally have an unlimited budget to buy a laptop right now and there are zero PC notebooks I would consider are of the same quality as the M1 MBP I am typing on right now. It's really unfortunate as I feel the quality overall has gone down over the years for Windows laptops. Maybe my standards are too high, but that's my real world experience. FYI, I prefer Windows over MacOS so that isn't the issue.
With that said Lenovo Thinkpads are some of the better machines, but you have to be careful which model and config you get. For example, the X1 Carbon overall is a great machine. I loved mine, but when I started to develop headaches while using it I discovered that this is a known issue. The 4K display has terrible backlight flicker when you aren't using it at 100% brightness. I've never experienced this before, but the backlight dimming circuit in this particular model is so abnormally slow that it does cause eye strain. The lower resolution FHD display is pretty good quality and doesn't have the flicker issue, but the lower resolution is noticeable.
I would stay away from any non-business Dells. I've tried the XPS 9310 2-in-1, XPS 9700, and XPS 9500 recently and they have a bunch of quality issues. Beautiful machine for sure. I love the design and the 17" display is quite nice especially when viewing HDR content, but backlight bleed and touchpad issues are fairly common. I did two exchanges for both the 9500 and 9700 and I still found quality issues.
The HP business line like the ZBooks are fairly nice, but they are fairly noisy when the fans are running which is most of the time. Certain fan noise drives me crazy. Oddly the XPS 9700 ran it's fans quite often, but they were very quiet and of a frequency that was not annoying. HP not so much.
Some of this is a really relevant observation, one that isn't quantifiable in some benchmark or graph.
My $750 Acer Swift 3 has a CPU/case fan. Even maxxed out, it's not obtrusive in volume nor pitch.
By contrast my $1650 MacBook Air 2019 had a much louder fan and was far more annoying in both volume and pitch.
None of this show up on a spec sheet. Noise that is tolerable at one frequency might be super annoying a half octave above or below.
If an annoying fan kicks in twice as frequently as a less annoying one and they both do the job at lowering the CPU temperature, which one posts a better benchmark score?
I know a lot of computer forum participants get mighty uncomfortable when discussions drift into assessments that aren't readily quantified by simple synthetic benchmarks and measurements. But that's what the real world ownership experience is.
My $750 Acer Swift 3 has a CPU/case fan. Even maxxed out, it's not obtrusive in volume nor pitch.
By contrast my $1650 MacBook Air 2019 had a much louder fan and was far more annoying in both volume and pitch.
None of this show up on a spec sheet. Noise that is tolerable at one frequency might be super annoying a half octave above or below.
If an annoying fan kicks in twice as frequently as a less annoying one and they both do the job at lowering the CPU temperature, which one posts a better benchmark score?
I know a lot of computer forum participants get mighty uncomfortable when discussions drift into assessments that aren't readily quantified by simple synthetic benchmarks and measurements. But that's what the real world ownership experience is.
We are talking about mass produced things, obviously issues are possible. Even Macs are prone to issues (eg. flex cable issue, etc). But we are already way beyond the days of rickety plastic Windows laptops with sub-1080p screens. Build quality and finish wise, pretty much any of the premium ultrabooks are great. My favorites are particularly Asus Zenbook and HP Envy series, with MSi also a decent one. Dell is good, but for me they seem to be "heavier" than they look.
Going with the enterprise models will surely give better support. But availability might be an issue for some.
Fans are inevitable. That's intel's problem. This is where the M1 wins hands down, and I even personally am thinking of getting an M1 Macbook Air. On Windows side, one has to opt down to core i5 or lower CPU with less core for less heat. The old core m series were great in terms of thermal, but of course performance is the trade off. Then there's battery life. This is the biggest drawback of current intel platform. No matter which intel laptop I've used, I can never go more than typical 4 to 5 hours battery life, and sometimes that creates outlet anxiety as I wasn't sure if the 50% left indicator is good for another 3 hours or just 1.5 hours.
In short, for performance per watt, M1 Macs is king. But if that's not a priority, and if amount of RAM/storage is more important for the budget, Windows laptops are great offerings.
I understand where you are coming from and I too have a similar addiction and budget but there is no way Apple overall construction and build is any better and if not worse than most equivalent premium laptops
As you note not to dwell on this too long but glued in parts, KB , chassis and screens that remain stagnant for years are typical of Apple
Apple just tough it out in the face of popular opinion re KB as an example where other OEM react and update generally faster although MS 2 year cycle is pushing it but nothing compared to Apple milking their designs regardless of flaws
As we can see the M1 is dumped in a 3 year old design (with a fixed KB) so they can milk Gen 2 etc with new case and screen that really should be available now
For thermal, majority of Windows OEMs imo have better thermal than Macs. Unlike Apple, these OEMs are designing specifically for intel. Apple OTOH were dreaming up the M1 before they even released it, so the Macbooks suffer from thermal design not suitable for the intel chip. Heck, the 2020 intel Macbook Air didn't have the fan connected to anything. It's obvious that Apple was designing for the M1 in mind, and of course thermals on intel suffer. The only annoyance I have with Windows laptop designs is that they tend to have the ventilations on the bottom of the case, easily blocked when putting the laptop anywhere other than a solid surface.
And there's the Ive legacy that wants everything thinner.
This makes no sense.
The fan in the MacBook Air 2020 is a case fan, not a CPU heatsink fan. It's the same design as the 2019 Air.
The M1 Air doesn't even have a fan. It's closer to the discontinued fanless Retina MacBook 2017.
Yes, the vents on my Acer Swift 3 are on the bottom. That probably contributes to the lower sound profile. As far as I can tell, no notebook computer is specifically designed for intended use on a non-solid surface.
Hell, Apple won't even refer to their portables as laptops. They are ALWAYS notebooks and Apple specifically instructs to put them on a flat solid surface.
The Ive "make everything thinner" legacy ended up as a disaster regarding the butterfly keyboard. That story isn't over, eventually it will end up in a few years as a class-action settlement and I will get my $25 from Apple just like the recent payout from the DVD settlement.
By contrast, my Acer Swift 3 doesn't have speaker vents. The mono sound emanates from gaps in the keyboard, centered near the right shift key. That's good enough for a short YouTube video or desktop notifications.
So I give up audio speaker performance for better fan acoustics with the Acer. I'm OK with that. I've paired my AirPods Pro with the Acer, I can always switch to those if I want better audio (like teleconference calls, multimedia, gaming, etc.).
I'm not crazy enough to use notebook computer speakers for a 1-hr. teleconference.
The fan in the MacBook Air 2020 is a case fan, not a CPU heatsink fan. It's the same design as the 2019 Air.
The M1 Air doesn't even have a fan. It's closer to the discontinued fanless Retina MacBook 2017.
Yes, the vents on my Acer Swift 3 are on the bottom. That probably contributes to the lower sound profile. As far as I can tell, no notebook computer is specifically designed for intended use on a non-solid surface.
Hell, Apple won't even refer to their portables as laptops. They are ALWAYS notebooks and Apple specifically instructs to put them on a flat solid surface.
The Ive "make everything thinner" legacy ended up as a disaster regarding the butterfly keyboard. That story isn't over, eventually it will end up in a few years as a class-action settlement and I will get my $25 from Apple just like the recent payout from the DVD settlement.
By contrast, my Acer Swift 3 doesn't have speaker vents. The mono sound emanates from gaps in the keyboard, centered near the right shift key. That's good enough for a short YouTube video or desktop notifications.
So I give up audio speaker performance for better fan acoustics with the Acer. I'm OK with that. I've paired my AirPods Pro with the Acer, I can always switch to those if I want better audio (like teleconference calls, multimedia, gaming, etc.).
I'm not crazy enough to use notebook computer speakers for a 1-hr. teleconference.
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Yes, the Lenovo ThinkPads are absolute tanks, you get great performance, top notch build qualities and Lenovo typically has sales.
Its more about what you want to run, then what is better (or not). Get the best tool for the job, and if you need or want macOS apps then the best tool is the M1 MBA. If you have windows needs or preferences, then why get a Mac that isn't designed to run windows
I haven't experienced the flicker with the 4K X1 Carbon, but I did want to post an anti-recommendation for the original poster.
In a lot of ways, the X1 Carbon is a great computer - lots of ports, excellent keyboard, excellent screen (I have the 7th gen 4K model [2019], and the screen is probably the best I have seen on any computer), and it is light as a feather. Seriously, seriously light.
But in terms of build quality, compared to a MBA, I don't think it stands up. Yes, it's light, and supposedly is carbon fibre over a magnesium chassis (or something), but the matte black finish is such a dirt magnet. Not only that, even after judicious care, eventually you won't be able to clean it properly. After six months of use and daily cleaning, it looked like I'd eaten dinner off it, so I ended up skinning the whole thing in a dbrand vinyl skin, just to keep it clean.
The keyboard is excellent, but the trackpad might be the worst trackpad I've ever used - even the Dell laptop I used at university in 1997 had a better trackpad, and that's 23-24 years ago.
The main killer is the battery life. I knew that a 4K display was going to draw power, and in exchange for the super lightness of the machine, I knew the battery was going to be a compromise. But I get about 2 hours of use, maximum, and that's hardly doing anything other than typing. I recently had a 90-minute Skype call on it, and I foolishly thought I could go the whole distance on a fully charged battery. Instead, I found myself scrambling for the charger just over the 1 hour mark.
For physical build quality, I'm not sure anything can beat Apple, and that's still with Apple using Macbook designs which are now several years old. I'm switching back from this ThinkPad to a MBA as soon as I can this year.
The Dell xps 13 (2019) is an outstanding notebook that is solid,
light, elegant, can type all day, has a long enough battery, stay cool, has a great screen and camera as well. windows 10 is solid, quick os and has enough ports for a monitor, store data while being plugged in.
i never had a problem with the Dell XPS since i purchased that in March 2019.
beside not being part of my apple computer system as the macbook-ipad and icloud.
light, elegant, can type all day, has a long enough battery, stay cool, has a great screen and camera as well. windows 10 is solid, quick os and has enough ports for a monitor, store data while being plugged in.
i never had a problem with the Dell XPS since i purchased that in March 2019.
beside not being part of my apple computer system as the macbook-ipad and icloud.
You do have a good point. I'm looking from my point of view which isn't a typical user. I switch machines measured in months rather than years so I don't even look at long term which to be fair you're on point. My wife has a 2016 MBP which just developed the display backlight issue (stage light) a few weeks ago. The issue that Apple has released a recall for on the 13" but not for the 15" like my wife has. I focus on out of the box issues which I've found typically are more obvious for PC notebooks than Macs. However, PC's don't have a monopoly on OOB issues. I went through multiple exchanges (I'm not saying exactly how many) and never did find a 16" MBP that didn't have terrible backlight uniformity / shadows issue.