Andor (StarWars Disney 2022-)

[Rafterman]

It’s a bit ‘kiddie’ and the stories/plot are very simplistic. Which is fine since it’s very clearly aimed at kids but also it just wasn’t particularly engaging.

Also, the main character is very annoying. He’s Force Sensitive without knowing it and manifests it as pure luck where no matter how absurd or even actively harmful his actions are to his allies, everything he does is right and works out for the best. So it was never very well received in the fandom.

Can't argue with that assessment, though a kid-centric show can still be that, but also engaging - like Star Trek Prodigy.

 

[Deedeekay]

We’ve got Disney/Abrams, an immense budget, ability to hire the best writers, and yet after the dismal Episodes 1-3, a concerted effort was made to recycle the original story, instead of finding a new narrative to propel the franchise forward. A blatant moral, creative failure/money grab. Shame on them. i remember Abrams touting how wonderful the new trilogy was going to be,

I wish people would realise that a) they're not experts on cinema just because they have an opinion, and b) it's utterly unnecessary to validate a preference with an 'objective' valuation of creative merit.

Having actually studied film, writing, literature and criticism, I can say with some level of confidence that, whilst not perfect (no creation ever is), from a craft perspective the sequels are actually very well made. That doesn't invalidate not liking it. Nor is there any requirement for it to be 'good' in order to like it. These are two entirely separate things that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with objectivity.

You don't have to **** on other people's preferences in order to empower your own either. It's entirely possible to say, "I don't like this," without saying, "It's ****ing ****!" And the thing is that most people who say, "It's ****ing ****!" might ostensibly or even honestly claim that it's "Just an opinion, man," but the fact is that such a statement is a value judgement not just on the product, but on the people who like it as well.

Like with what I did with talking about Resistance. It's all true without any real value judgement. It is simplistic. It is aimed at a younger audience. The main character was also deliberately designed to be 'annoying' (in a 'charming' way) and their Force Sensitive status was meant to be an active question due to their odd luck despite gross levels of incompetence and obliviousness outside of piloting. That it didn't resonate with a lot of fans also doesn't mean it was bad or good, by any critical measure. It just means people (mostly older audiences, surprise, surprise) didn't generally connect with it. But I also know loads of people who did connect with it and therefore love it. That's an entirely valid preference to have, irrespective of any creative or value judgements of it.

There's also a significant factor of misogyny inherent in these 'critical' receptions to the sequels. It's no coincidence that the majority of people who rail against the sequels and go out of their way to signal to everyone how much they hated them, also skew conservative, sexist and misogynist. That doesn't mean everyone who disliked the sequels are these things, but it is something to maybe consider for those who follow such people and/or echo those opinions uncritically.

Can't argue with tht assessment, though a kid-centric show can still be that, but also engaging - like Star Trek Prodigy.

I don't mind Prodigy but I can't say I'm loving it. It does, however, definitely have more complex plots, characters and characterisation. I was actually a little shocked that this was a Nickleodeon show given some of the themes and their execution.

Star Wars: Rebels gets a bad wrap from a lot of people for being 'kiddie' too but once you get past the first season, it really finds its legs and starts running. It's still generally aimed at kids but has so much heart that by the end, if you ain't crying in the fourth season, you're made of cold stone.

 

[TheIntruder]

Andor Season One:

• The writer is the most powerful person associated with a story (a surprising plot), director #2, actors #3.
• Excellent writing and pacing.
• The most menacing portrayal of the Empire with grit I can remember.
• More than rebels and ships staging from an outlying base, home town rebellion.
• Andor as a rebel, runs circles around Solo.
• Honorable mention to Stellan Skarsgard and Andy Serkis.
• Luthan Rael kicks the Empire’s ass!
• I have a crush on no-nonsense Kaz.
• Give me 4 more seasons, and make the episodes 1 hour each!

It's strong in every element, which is what makes it good.

The original five-year plan came more from the top, and that's not something Luna wanted to do, and something Gilroy also came to recognize, so they pivoted.

They started shooting season two recently, and it's scheduled to go until August of next year. Coming after the first season having some bumps during production.

An eight or nine month shoot, plus post, could pretty much eat up the next four-to-five years of one's life, and probably doesn't sound appealing to someone who wants to do different things and not remain stuck in one place, even if is easy and lucrative, especially if they have the need to feel broadly creative.

And that's only for a 12-episode run that doesn't have to adhere to any particular Fall/Spring season, like a traditional broadcast series. Those 20+ episode seasons must have been murder on everyone.

The grind of TV is not something many look forward to. The sheer scale of a series is something Gilroy commented as having been an adjustment he needed to make with Andor.

 

[Huntn]

I wish people would realise that a) they're not experts on cinema just because they have an opinion, and b) it's utterly unnecessary to validate a preference with an 'objective' valuation of creative merit.

Having actually studied film, writing, literature and criticism, I can say with some level of confidence that, whilst not perfect (no creation ever is), from a craft perspective the sequels are actually very well made. That doesn't invalidate not liking it. Nor is there any requirement for it to be 'good' in order to like it. These are two entirely separate things that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with objectivity.

You don't have to **** on other people's preferences in order to empower your own either. It's entirely possible to say, "I don't like this," without saying, "It's ****ing ****!" And the thing is that most people who say, "It's ****ing ****!" might ostensibly or even honestly claim that it's "Just an opinion, man," but the fact is that such a statement is a value judgement not just on the product, but on the people who like it as well.

Like with what I did with talking about Resistance. It's all true without any real value judgement. It is simplistic. It is aimed at a younger audience. The main character was also deliberately designed to be 'annoying' (in a 'charming' way) and their Force Sensitive status was meant to be an active question due to their odd luck despite gross levels of incompetence and obliviousness outside of piloting. That it didn't resonate with a lot of fans also doesn't mean it was bad or good, by any critical measure. It just means people (mostly older audiences, surprise, surprise) didn't generally connect with it. But I also know loads of people who did connect with it and therefore love it. That's an entirely valid preference to have, irrespective of any creative or value judgements of it.

There's also a significant factor of misogyny inherent in these 'critical' receptions to the sequels. It's no coincidence that the majority of people who rail against the sequels and go out of their way to signal to everyone how much they hated them, also skew conservative, sexist and misogynist. That doesn't mean everyone who disliked the sequels are these things, but it is something to maybe consider for those who follow such people and/or echo those opinions uncritically.


I don't mind Prodigy but I can't say I'm loving it. It does, however, definitely have more complex plots, characters and characterisation. I was actually a little shocked that this was a Nickleodeon show given some of the themes and their execution.

Star Wars: Rebels gets a bad wrap from a lot of people for being 'kiddie' too but once you get past the first season, it really finds its legs and starts running. It's still generally aimed at kids but has so much heart that by the end, if you ain't crying in the fourth season, you're made of cold stone.

Not said as an insult to you, but I’ll clarify my expectations. As a eager consumer of creative Sci-fi fantasy content, actually for stories of all genres, my expectations are for:

• Creativity
• imagination
• Building on success (no, not recycling).
• new and original when appropriate.
• interesting stories with some bite.

Admittedly all of these things are subject to audience/individual preference and they have nothing to do in themselves with “how well” a story is constructed or executed.

Death Star<Death Planet< ?? Abram’s Death Comet, or maybe Death Solar System, next.
…Note, this is not the only parallel recycling from the original 3 episodes.

I’ll recycle:
What I don’t expect to to see is a wealthy corporation, with basically an unlimited budget, and as I said the ability to hire the best writing team on the planet and to decide that recycling the story is the best path forward and/or the best way to make money with a previously proven but now recycled formula, with a new younger audience. The new audience may love it, but a GIANT thumbs down from someone who has been around since the beginning and one day hopes the franchise will actually be propelled into a new future.

 

[Huntn]

It's strong in every element, which is what makes it good.

The original five-year plan came more from the top, and that's not something Luna wanted to do, and something Gilroy also came to recognize, so they pivoted.

They started shooting season two recently, and it's scheduled to go until August of next year. Coming after the first season having some bumps during production.

An eight or nine month shoot, plus post, could pretty much eat up the next four-to-five years of one's life, and probably doesn't sound appealing to someone who wants to do different things and not remain stuck in one place, even if is easy and lucrative, especially if they have the need to feel broadly creative.

And that's only for a 12-episode run that doesn't have to adhere to any particular Fall/Spring season, like a traditional broadcast series. Those 20+ episode seasons must have been murder on everyone.

The grind of TV is not something many look forward to. The sheer scale of a series is something Gilroy commented as having been an adjustment he needed to make with Andor.

I’m frequently disappointed today by what passes for a season, from the good ole days of 30 episode seasons, only 40 years ago. I’ve also said I said I dislike 30 min episodes because the story built on this structure sometimes is broken into 30 min, mini -stories. The pacing in Andor was really good and did not feel broken up, so I can view this as a 6 hour movie, which is excellent.

 

[Deedeekay]

What I don’t expect to to see is a wealthy corporation, with a basically an unlimited buffet, and as I said the ability to hire the best writing team on the planet and to decide that recycling the story is the best path forward and/or the best way to make money with a previously proven but now recycled formula, with a new younger audience. The new audience may love it, but a GIANT thumbs down from someone who has been around since the beginning and one day hopes the franchise will actually be propelled into a new future.

All you've done is say the exact same thing in a slightly different way. You're making value judgements on qualitative merit that are entirely drawn from personal opinion. Not just that, but it's an uneducated opinion and further, you're also valuing your own opinion above anyone else's and using it as a means to tautologically justify demeaning others who don't think the same as you.

And the thing is, it's okay to just say you didn't like it. You can end it right there without any need to justify your opinion. There's simply no need to say you didn't like it because it was 'bad'. I can assure you that there are many films and shows that are excellently crafted that I don't like or enjoy. Taxi Driver, for instance, one of the most celebrated films, I don't care for. I don't need to say, "It's complete trash!" in order to validate that opinion. But everything you've said is putting down people who do like the thing you don't like through your attempt to validate that opinion by claiming some sort of objective craft poverty.

Nobody really cares if you do or don't like something but they do care when you call something they like, crap.

 

[Huntn]

All you've done is say the exact same thing in a slightly different way. You're making value judgements on qualitative merit that are entirely drawn from personal opinion. Not just that, but it's an uneducated opinion and further, you're also valuing your own opinion above anyone else's and using it as a means to tautologically justify demeaning others who don't think the same as you.

And the thing is, it's okay to just say you didn't like it. You can end it right there without any need to justify your opinion. There's simply no need to say you didn't like it because it was 'bad'. I can assure you that there are many films and shows that are excellently crafted that I don't like or enjoy. Taxi Driver, for instance, one of the most celebrated films, I don't care for. I don't need to say, "It's complete trash!" in order to validate that opinion. But everything you've said is putting down people who do like the thing you don't like through your attempt to validate that opinion by claiming some sort of objective craft poverty.

Nobody really cares if you do or don't like something but they do care when you call something they like, crap.

Actually you should not be, as I am not when someone does not like what I like. What I do if no reason is given, is to ask why they don’t like a story and accept their reason as to why it did not work for them, and I don’t get offended.

Btw, I think I described it as unworthy, a suitably adult critique, for the specific reasons I mentioned, the proof is in the pudding, and I’ve already acknowledged it boils down to personal preference.

This topic is centered on, personal opinion, the audience either likes something or not, and I can‘t think of a more justifiable reason to condemn a story when instead of breaking new ground, for lack of a better new idea, it is blatantly recycled. That’s just not an unusual occurrence in $Hollywood$.

So you can unruffle your feathers. If you like/love Episodes7-9, I’m good with that in itself. Feel free to make all the excuses you want about why they made the decisions that were made to produce an inferior money maker. You disagree, I accept your disagreement.

 

[Silencio]

CGI in Andor was excellent, I kept trying to guess where the set stopped and the green screen started. Coruscant was impressive.

What was best about Andor is that Gilroy insisted on actual built sets as much as was feasible. I think it did make a palpable difference in the feel of the show versus the other Star Wars shows that were largely shot in that crazy motion capture system that ILM developed.

 

[eyoungren]

What was best about Andor is that Gilroy insisted on actual built sets as much as was feasible. I think it did make a palpable difference in the feel of the show versus the other Star Wars shows that were largely shot in that crazy motion capture system that ILM developed.

Denise Gough (Dedra Meero) was on the set (they filmed the finale first) and just started opening drawers and poking around. She says that the set designers actually put objects in the drawers that would have been logical based on what that part of the set was intended for. She mentions that it made it very easy to be in character for that reason.

Apparently, she was also caught (with a bunch of storm trooper extras) humming the Imperial theme.

 

[Huntn]

What was best about Andor is that Gilroy insisted on actual built sets as much as was feasible. I think it did make a palpable difference in the feel of the show versus the other Star Wars shows that were largely shot in that crazy motion capture system that ILM developed.

Physical effects are always better when feasible. This is what made the new Top Gun movie worth a watch, although the story and premises were ehh. Watching real airplanes zip around was much more impressive than a video game, regardless of how good it looks. However, imo, a strong suspension of disbelief was required.

Then I think about Avatar, filmed in a warehouse, and the fidelity of the environment is such that I am blown away.

 

[scubachap]

Well, just finished Andor. After a bit of a patchy but intriguing start I thought it was great. One of the best Star Wars things I've seen. Really enjoyed it.

Not just that, but it's an uneducated opinion and further, you're also valuing your own opinion above anyone else's and using it as a means to tautologically justify demeaning others who don't think the same as you.

Quick question for you... What counts as an educated opinion?

 

[Rafterman]

Honest Trailers has one on Andor and its awessome.

I liked the part where Andor really doesn't want to be where he is (followed by 6 or 7 clips of him saying he doesn't want to be where happens to be at that moment.)

Honest Trailers' excellent take on 'Star Wars: Andor'

HT hits Andor on the head: this is the one Star Wars show that isn't ****ing around. Also, Andy Serkis has definitely earned the right to use his face. Image:…

boingboing.net

 

[Huntn]

Honest Trailers has one on Andor and its awessome.

I liked the part where Andor really doesn't want to be where he is (followed by 6 or 7 clips of him saying he doesn't want to be where happens to be at that moment.)

Honest Trailers' excellent take on 'Star Wars: Andor'

HT hits Andor on the head: this is the one Star Wars show that isn't ****ing around. Also, Andy Serkis has definitely earned the right to use his face. Image:…

boingboing.net

That’s perfectly understandable, I would not want to be there either if I had a choice.

 

[chown33]

Moderation Note

A large number of off-topic posts were deleted. Please stay on-topic discussing Andor.

Use a different thread, either a new one or an existing one, to discuss cable companies, streaming devices, etc.

 

[Huntn]

Rewatched this series…sublime. The kind of story, acting, and writing that the Star Wars Universe is dying without.

​

I’ve got 5 Star Wars titles certified as worthy, cronological order (not demanding agreement):

• Andor Season 1 & 2 (season 2 anticipated)
• Rogue One (unofficial Episode 3.5)
• Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope
• Star Wars Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back
• Star Wars Episode 6: Return of the Jedi

Andor Season 2 expected to drop later this year.

Andor Season 2: Release, Cast, and Everything We Know

When is Andor Season 2 coming out? Who's in the cast? What will the next season be about? Find out here!

thedirect.com

 

[Herdfan]

It will be gone too soon.

 

[Huntn]

Some Andor links:

Andor Cast & Character Guide

The cast of Andor is a talented one.

screenrant.com

Fight the Empire! (Maarva Andor's Full Speech) | Scattered Quotes

(Maarva Andor’s speech from holographic recording played at her funeral…) Maarva Andor: My name is Maarva Carassi Andor. I’m honored to stand before you. I’m honored to be a Daughter of Ferrix, and honored to be worthy of the stone.... Continue Reading →

scatteredquotes.com

 

[eyoungren]

It will be gone too soon.

Not for the actors. We get what…8-12 episodes depending?

By the time the first episode of season 2 airs, the actors will have spent over four years on this show alone. Which is why they and Tony Gilroy were extremely reluctant to do the equivalent of 1 season = 1 year in the SW universe. That would have committed them all to five seasons and they'd have given up 10 or more of their best acting years for just ONE show.

So yeah, for us it's bittersweet and will depart all too soon, but for actors and crew its freedom to move on.

 

[Huntn]

Not for the actors. We get what…8-12 episodes depending?

By the time the first episode of season 2 airs, the actors will have spent over four years on this show alone. Which is why they and Tony Gilroy were extremely reluctant to do the equivalent of 1 season = 1 year in the SW universe. That would have committed them all to five seasons and they'd have given up 10 or more of their best acting years for just ONE show.

So yeah, for us it's bittersweet and will depart all too soon, but for actors and crew its freedom to move on.

Well, not all of 4 years, but I understand a commitment. If it drops in 2024, would’nt they have commited some period of time during that 4 years. Admittedly I don’t have a good understanding how much time was required, but see the issue of a commitment, that might interfere with other projects they want to do.

 

[TheIntruder]

I've been rewatching the first season recently, and it holds up…very well. Could stand on its own as a non-SW series, but the fact that it is, makes it even better, and sets a high bar for the franchise.

Both Gilroy and Luna have publicly said that the commitment required is high enough already, and they're the kind of people who like to do different things. Gilroy in particular, was surprised by the grind of TV, even a limited streaming series.

They've wrapped the second season, but with post, and a full Disney slate this year, the second season is likely to debut in '25.

 

[Herdfan]

If a SW commitment had kept Pedro Pascal from making that horrible WW '84 movie, I would not have wasted 2+ hours of my life. 😂

 

[obeygiant]

I guess the BADBATCH is the next thing to watch

 

[TheIntruder]

If a SW commitment had kept Pedro Pascal from making that horrible WW '84 movie, I would not have wasted 2+ hours of my life. 😂

He no longer wears the suit, and doesn't even have to be on set much, if at all.

Most of his time seems to be spent in Canada, shooting TLoU S01 in Calgary, and now S02 in Vancouver.