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jjudson

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2017
713
1,535
North Carolina
Craig is OK but he's also the person responsible for Apple's declining software quality and overall poor management of balancing all the different software Apple has to juggle and keep updated. His philosophy seems to be "as long as it's just barely good enough, it's fine" with seemingly no concern for the software being exceptional or enjoyable to use

The fact that this still exists after almost two years tells everyone what they need to know about Craig and his development team. It's a small thing, but very indicative of the lack of interest in delivering well-polished, low-bug product...

1709692260103-jpeg.2356002
 

jimbobb24

macrumors 68040
Jun 6, 2005
3,343
5,355
This is the absurd level of care CEOs have to use. Wow. They have a tiny but of information wrong that people use to make decisions and the company gets sued. What a crazy world.
 
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AlexJaye

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2010
417
640
Apple phones/computers are sold stating how much memory and storage is included in the device, for an advertised price.

If someone needs more memory or storage, that can be increased by simply paying more money.

How is that defrauding people? Be specific.
It was half-way a joke, but the fraud is also telling people that those specs are enough for computing, which the RAM alone goes into the Yellow zone with basic Apple apps (especially Safari use).

It's a sham and just a way for Apple to rip people off by paying more for 16gb (which should be the base for any Mac, especially a "Pro" Mac).
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,891
25,820
It was half-way a joke, but the fraud is also telling people that those specs are enough for computing, which the RAM alone goes into the Yellow zone with basic Apple apps (especially Safari use).

It's a sham and just a way for Apple to rip people off by paying more for 16gb (which should be the base for any Mac, especially a "Pro" Mac).

"but the fraud is also telling people that those specs are enough for computing, which the RAM alone goes into the Yellow zone with basic Apple apps (especially Safari use)."

On the subject of 8 GB of memory... Many people here who own 8 GB memory computers have said that for basic computing (not finding the next prime number, not decoding hostile foreign encrypted communications, etc) that 8 GB works just fine.

I get that some people want (and demand) free stuff. It's a way of life.

If you need more memory, simply pay for it.
 
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maxoakland

macrumors 6502a
Oct 6, 2021
697
999
"but the fraud is also telling people that those specs are enough for computing, which the RAM alone goes into the Yellow zone with basic Apple apps (especially Safari use)."

On the subject of 8 GB of memory... Many people here who own 8 GB memory computers have said that for basic computing (not finding the next prime number, not decoding hostile foreign encrypted communications, etc) that 8 GB works just fine.
Framing it as "basic computing" vs finding the next prime number or decoding encrypted communications is very misleading.

I had an 8GB Mac Mini and it wasn't able to handle having several different applications open and doing mid range content editing

Basically, anything more than using two applications at a time that are a web browser and word processor is too much for the 8GB RAM to handle

If you need more memory, simply pay for it.

OK Mr. Moneybags. Not everyone can
 
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AlexJaye

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2010
417
640
"but the fraud is also telling people that those specs are enough for computing, which the RAM alone goes into the Yellow zone with basic Apple apps (especially Safari use)."

On the subject of 8 GB of memory... Many people here who own 8 GB memory computers have said that for basic computing (not finding the next prime number, not decoding hostile foreign encrypted communications, etc) that 8 GB works just fine.

I get that some people want (and demand) free stuff. It's a way of life.

If you need more memory, simply pay for it.
8GB of RAM on a Mac is going to drive up the SWAP on the SSD. RAM will go into the yellow/red zones. Apple can conveniently hide this from basic consumers, but over time it most likely will lower the life of the SSD and lead to failures.

16gb should be the base, 2024, there is no excuse to still be selling 8gb RAM in a Mac, especially a "Pro". It is not asking for "Free stuff" - it is asking for basic functionality without the system having to crutch its way through a day.

Sure, if someone wants 32 or 64gb RAM, they should pay extra (but even the fees that Apple currently charges are outrageous for what you get).
 
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BGPL

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2016
935
2,580
California
"Apple only agreed to the proposed settlement to avoid additional costs and time involved with litigation, the filing says."

Bologna... Apple will fight 365/24/7 for much less. They know they have no case because of course Tim and other leadership/analysts knew. Tim has his two fingers on China's pulse like no other market. Apple has carried on patent wars for years and years for much less where they had a significantly worse chances.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,891
25,820
16gb should be the base, 2024, there is no excuse to still be selling 8gb RAM in a Mac, especially a "Pro". It is not asking for "Free stuff" - it is asking for basic functionality without the system having to crutch its way through a day.

If you really need 16 GB, simply purchase a Mac with the 16 GB option. Easy.

Millions of happy Apple customers with basic computing needs are doing just fine with 8 GB. As attested by many people here on MR who have 8 GB memory computers and reported their excellent performance, with SSD working like new without degradation.
 
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Killbynumbers

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2019
557
549
If you really need 16 GB, simply purchase a Mac with the 16 GB option. Easy.

Millions of happy Apple customers with basic computing needs are doing just fine with 8 GB. As attested by many people here on MR who have 8 GB memory computers and reported their excellent performance, with SSD working like new without degradation.
My 8G M1 MBA is doing just fine today. I have at least 20 tabs open in Safari and never close them. I don't do any work or photo editing like that but I also don't do any of that on my M1 16GB 1TB MBP. The air is the one I use 90% of my day.
 
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citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,891
25,820
My 8G M1 MBA is doing just fine today. I have at least 20 tabs open in Safari and never close them. I don't do any work or photo editing like that but I also don't do any of that on my M1 16GB 1TB MBP. The air is the one I use 90% of my day.

The MBA is a great machine!

I still prefer my M1 MBA over my MBP - even when editing photos in LR (at the expense of a smaller screen). My wife who still uses a 2018 Intel MBP is looking forward to soon getting an M3 15" MBA.

Apple sure nailed their MBA product line providing a good amount of computing power in a lightweight package - and at a decent price.
 
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DaPhox

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2019
219
334
Framing it as "basic computing" vs finding the next prime number or decoding encrypted communications is very misleading.

I had an 8GB Mac Mini and it wasn't able to handle having several different applications open and doing mid range content editing

Basically, anything more than using two applications at a time that are a web browser and word processor is too much for the 8GB RAM to handle



OK Mr. Moneybags. Not everyone can
Steal it then…
 

ThomasJL

macrumors 68000
Oct 16, 2008
1,600
3,518
It does beg the question - does Apple need the next Steve Jobs? Is there even place for one in the Apple of today?
Consumers need the next Steve Jobs. Shareholders need the same Tim Cook or one of the numerous soulless MBAs just like him.

If someone is a shareholder, then it makes sense why he would prefer Cook as CEO. But if someone is not a shareholder, why on earth would he prefer Cook over the next Jobs?
 
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VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,383
14,255
Scotland
I'm pretty sure that you're a less significant contributor than Tim Cook.
Are you now? Of course you have intimate first hand knowledge of how Cook contributes to Apple in order to make this statement, right? :rolleyes:

And you nicely illustrate my point: While average workers are subjected a performance-based process of selection, executives are shielded from this on the presumption that it is the executives, rather than the workers actually involved in services and the production of products, who create the value in a company. Perhaps Steve Jobs did, but he was the exception to the rule. Cook is not.
 

marstan

macrumors 6502
Nov 13, 2013
291
208
Consumers need the next Steve Jobs. Shareholders need the same Tim Cook or one of the numerous soulless MBAs just like him.

If someone is a shareholder, then it makes sense why he would prefer Cook as CEO. But if someone is not a shareholder, why on earth would he prefer Cook over the next Jobs?
And this is the problem with the American business model - the exclusive focus on shareholder value. It should be customer value with shareholders merely along for the ride (and it can be a very good ride). But how to change it?
 

satchmo

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2008
4,979
5,632
Canada
What an excellent post!

You are so right about Craig Federighi, especially how he has "seemingly no concern for the software being exceptional or enjoyable to use". I still remember how arrogant and smug he was when introducing iOS 7 and taking verbal shots at Scott Forstall's use of skeuomorphism in previous versions of iOS. Federighi fails to realize that the level of graphic artistry that went into the skeuomorphic design of iOS 6 made it exceptional in comparison to all other smartphone operating systems out there. Now, iOS has flat design which looks like Android, Windows, and all the other cookie-cutter flat design on the Internet. Federighi also fails to realize that one of the many benefits of skeuomophism is that it made software enjoyable to use.

Also four years ago, Craig’s explanation why we still don’t have a calculator app for iPad.

Give me a break, is the calculator for iPhone distinctly great?

“You know there's some things that we we have not done because, to do it we would want to do something really distinctly great in that space. I think it's obviously easy to create a calculator app, but creating one that feels like “wow!” this is the greatest iPad calculator out there. We want to do it when we can do it really really well. We honestly have just haven't gotten around to doing it great, so that date that day may come.”
 
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Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
276
258
"but the fraud is also telling people that those specs are enough for computing, which the RAM alone goes into the Yellow zone with basic Apple apps (especially Safari use)."

On the subject of 8 GB of memory... Many people here who own 8 GB memory computers have said that for basic computing (not finding the next prime number, not decoding hostile foreign encrypted communications, etc) that 8 GB works just fine.

I get that some people want (and demand) free stuff. It's a way of life.

If you need more memory, simply pay for it.
'basic computing'. To me being old school that does not equate to using a computer for browsing or similar, to me computing in the true sense is the act of calculating something, adding it up, multiplying it, or doing more complex math functions or programming or other functions. You have quantified that you don't mean finding the next prime number etc. etc., but in my book using a computer as a basic internet machine, or word processor doesn't really equate too computing albeit I realise the definition seems to have diluted somewhat over the years. (excuse the pun and tic)
 

ThunderSkunk

macrumors 68040
Dec 31, 2007
3,827
4,072
Milwaukee Area
Who cares. Rob them for all they're worth Tim. When you're throwing around quantities of cash that can build or destroy entire civilizations and the best thing your culture can think to do with it is appeal to gamblers looking to bet on horses, go nuts.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,590
22,049
Singapore
Consumers need the next Steve Jobs. Shareholders need the same Tim Cook or one of the numerous soulless MBAs just like him.

If someone is a shareholder, then it makes sense why he would prefer Cook as CEO. But if someone is not a shareholder, why on earth would he prefer Cook over the next Jobs?
Because my experience under the Tim Cook regime has actually been pretty good overall, and I feel that too many people are selling his legacy short. For a bit of history, I got my first apple product in 2011 (the year Steve Jobs passed away), so I guess in that regard, I was never a "true believer" and can look back on my own history through less tinted glasses.

In 2016, I purchased the iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch and AirPods. Not a bad haul from a company that was run by a "soulless MBA". I then bought a 5k iMac in 2017, another iPad Pro in 2018, upgraded my Apple Watch in 2019, M1 MBA in 2020, upgraded to a 13 pro max in 2021 and bought my AirPods pro in end 2022. Also picked up a couple of Apple TVs and AirTags along the way.

In terms of strategy, this goes back to (what I believe to be) Tim Cook's strategy to build a moat around the iPhone by making it the lynchpin of their entire ecosystem. Something that appears to have paid off magnificently as it has made the Apple ecosystem nigh-impenetrable. It's telling how critics completely overlooked this even as they were blasting the iPhone for its high prices and low market share.

Sure, it's not as sexy as pulling a laptop out of an envelop, but I have long learned to look past flashy keynotes and fiery rhetoric. If anything, I am starting to lose my appetite for them (founders like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk just don't know when to shut up). Instead, I like the current Apple as it is - a well-oiled machine capable of updating its numerous operating systems in lockstep every year, able to churn out hundreds of millions of devices and make them available for sale on day 1 so I am not faced with a delay of several months, I admire that Apple still knows how to say a thousand nos for every yes, and I appreciate how consumers can pick and choose a range of Apple products that best fit their lifestyles.

That's also notwithstanding the reality that Steve Jobs would probably be a poor fit for the Apple of today. You don't just need someone with a good product idea. You need someone capable of navigating the increasingly politicised and polarised society that we find ourselves in, and I suspect Steve Jobs simply wouldn't fit in all that well were he still alive today.

I don't just need someone who can make a good product. I need someone who can ensure that Apple continues to thrive, so that they can continue to make good products for a long time to come. Steve Jobs was great for reviving an Apple teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, and Tim Cook is great for allowing Apple to operate at the scale it does today. Acknowledging the accomplishments of one person doesn't diminish the accomplishments of the other. It's okay to recognise both. :)
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,891
25,820
Framing it as "basic computing" vs finding the next prime number or decoding encrypted communications is very misleading.

I had an 8GB Mac Mini and it wasn't able to handle having several different applications open and doing mid range content editing

Basically, anything more than using two applications at a time that are a web browser and word processor is too much for the 8GB RAM to handle



OK Mr. Moneybags. Not everyone can

I believe everyone here understands what "basic computing" with respect to needs means. If you really need some help/assistance with that let me know and I'll list a dozen or so simple uses.

Millions of happy customers purchase an Apple computer with base 8 GB of memory for their basic needs. Which works just fine as many MR readers here have attested in similar threads.

If you're unhappy with how Apple outfits their entry level computers, I'm sure there are many other manufacturers that can offer what you need at a price that works for you. Vote with your wallet. Easy.
 
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