Apple and Other Tech Companies Call for Government Surveillance Reform

[Xgm541]

Sorry for being skeptical but it seems like apple and the other major companies have no problems or moral issue with tax evasion for example.

Prism probably requires them to set up in house protocol to make the information the government needs available in a timely manner and will need to hire people to make that possible.

Also the government isn't paying them for your information like advertisers do.

Yes this is a step in the right direction but let's not forget the motives.

 

[unplugme71]

The bigger question is.. why are these tech companies standing up and not us citizens? Why are we so quiet??? Lets do something about it. We are stronger than those tech companies combined!

 

[brendu]

The bigger question is.. why are these tech companies standing up and not us citizens? Why are we so quiet??? Lets do something about it. We are stronger than those tech companies combined!

I'm all ears, what do you propose? The only power we really have is our money. The only thing we can do is stop paying the corporations that own our government. Ask yourself, can you live without a cell phone? How about cable tv? Internet? Maybe you can stop paying for gasoline by riding a bike. Too many Americans say they are upset but aren't willing to give up the things that enable this nonsense in the first place.

Unfortunately this letter will fall on deaf ears. The NSA will never go away and they will never be reigned back via regulation. There are very rich people with a lot of power who depend greatly on the spying power they spent so long creating. Until citizen united (which has nothing to do with citizens being united by the way) is overturned and it is made illegal to give ANY money to politicians then problems like this will not go away.

 

[velocityg4]

Apple was the last tech company to very reluctantly join PRISM. They fought the good fight for as long as was possible and now they are leading the fight against these overly intrusive programmes. I'm very proud of Apple for the extensive work they are doing in this area, as should every Apple enthusiast.

If they were really fighting it. They would have yelled from the mountain tops loud and clear what the government was trying to make them do. Then use their massive financial resources for any legal battle that could ensue.

 

[hsotnicam8002]

"Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the comment thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All MacRumors forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts."

Which law of the universe determines that after 100 posts any comments will be appropriate, sensible, useful or accurate?

 

[brendu]

This is not Apple's, Google's or Microsoft's battle. It is YOUR battle. Maybe you guys should vote for some new party the next time you can elect your president -- that means give your voice to neither a democrat nor a republican, but really to some NEW party.

You don't understand the state of our political system. Even a third party candidate will have corporate lobbyists pulling their strings. Money and greed has destroyed our government.

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"Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the comment thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All MacRumors forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts."

Which law of the universe determines that after 100 posts any comments will be appropriate, sensible, useful or accurate?

It prevents trolls from making accounts solely to troll articles that people tend to get passionate and upset about.

 

[gatearray]

Apple probably provides the government with indirect access to its servers. Statements like these get screened by lawyers and you have to read between the lines.

I think the NSA actually TAKES access to data through PRISM, they don't need any company's approval.

A prism splits light, yes? So the NSA physically sets up shop just outside of a company's server facility and splits the fiber optic signal before it reaches the company, taking an exact copy of everything for themselves as it flows into said company's servers, no permission required.

Once they have possession of data from this dragnet, they make this evidence legal for court with an official targeted request to the company they intercepted it from.

 

[SBlue1]

...but I'm also a believer in that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.

Wrong! This is what the majority thinks. I was thinking this way too until I saw a report of an innocent guy who ended up on a no-fly list by coincidence.

He hasn't done nothing wrong. Just like you and me. He was doing business trips at the wrong place at the wrong time doing innocent everyday things but the NSA saw a pattern in his behavior that terrorists used to have. So they did put the potential-terrorist-supporter tag on him and he ended up on the no-fly list and could not fly back to the states. There is nothing he could do cause this is nothing official. There is no way to protest against it if you end up on such a list. There is no court that puts you on such a list. There is no lawyer that can protect you because terrorists don't get their one free phone call every other suspect gets. There are no laws or guidelines about this. This is scary stuff!

This is like in the middle ages where you could get rid of your neighbor just by saying he is doing some kind of black magic and he was gone.

I bet there are thousands of Americans on such watch-lists. They just don't know.

 

[Northgrove]

Great. These companies just made it onto the government's $hiit list. Glad to see someone taking a stand but I'm also a believer in that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.

There are far more reasons to ask for privacy than being a criminal. Not realizing this is a very worrying trend to me. Read more on confidentiality, the Hippocratic Oath, trade secrets, bank secrecy, etc. These are all in place for very good reasons; that information in the wrong hands can easily be abused, and used in extortion that can be very hard to defend oneself against.

If we can no longer have anything to hide, we are also leaving the power to know ourselves to others, and that can be a serious problem for as long as there are mere humans in hold of this power.

 

[jfx94]

"Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the comment thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All MacRumors forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts."

Which law of the universe determines that after 100 posts any comments will be appropriate, sensible, useful or accurate?

An excellent question. I'm thrilled I finally have reached 100 posts but realize that speaks to my time on the forum more than maturity in comment writing. Alternately, after spending enough time on the forums (maybe enough to write 100 posts) you kinda get an idea of what is accepted and what is flame bait.

 

[Jimmy James]

Great. These companies just made it onto the government's $hiit list. Glad to see someone taking a stand but I'm also a believer in that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.

But what if the law changes? Your right to congregate is reformed? Religious beliefs, or lack thereof, become "wrong"? Suddenly, what your legally doing now becomes a problem.

 

[cclloyd]

Great. These companies just made it onto the government's $hiit list. Glad to see someone taking a stand but I'm also a believer in that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.

I may have a different definition of wrong than the government. Marijuana is the biggest example.

 

[Fishrrman]

The only way to rein in government surveillance in the USA is through a Constitutional amendment.

Neither the Congress, nor the court system, nor the executive branch will ever put at stop to it.

The only way is for the _people_, acting through individual state governments, to pass an amendment on their own, bypassing the entire federal government.

Here is the text I propose for a "privacy amendment":
===============================================
Citizens protected by this Constitution possess an inalienable right to privacy in their persons, business, and homes, and while they are in public.

It shall be a violation of this Constitution for the United States or for the several States to violate or invade the individual privacy of citizens by use of physical, mechanical, or electronic means or by the use of devices on land, on water, below the ground, or from the air.

This protection shall extend to all lawful communications and acts by an individual citizen or between two or more citizens, including content that is spoken, written, or electronically transmitted. It shall extend to citizens regardless of their location, whether in private or in public.

The only exceptions will be as governed by the Fourth Amendment of this Constitution.
===============================================

Nothing very complicated here.
Just four short paragraphs that anyone can read and understand.

But THIS is what "stays the government's hand". It will breathe new life into the fourth amendment, and give the people the legal foundation they can stand on to put goverment spying on its own citizens back under control.

 

[scoobydoo99]

Why did they do this before it became public knowledge, since they were complying with government requests.

No free PR in that I suppose.

Exactly. I can't believe how many gullible people are saying that this is reassuring or "about time".

C'mon folks. These are the same corporations that have been selling you out to the government for years. They have no interest in promoting your privacy or liberty.

This is pure damage control and PR. If they can just get you placated so that you shut up about civil liberties, the road to totalitarianism can continue unabated.

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The only way to rein in government surveillance in the USA is through a Constitutional amendment.

Neither the Congress, nor the court system, nor the executive branch will ever put at stop to it.

The only way is for the _people_, acting through individual state governments, to pass an amendment on their own, bypassing the entire federal government.

Here is the text I propose for a "privacy amendment":
===============================================
Citizens protected by this Constitution possess an inalienable right to privacy in their persons, business, and homes, and while they are in public.

It shall be a violation of this Constitution for the United States or for the several States to violate or invade the individual privacy of citizens by use of physical, mechanical, or electronic means or by the use of devices on land, on water, below the ground, or from the air.

This protection shall extend to all lawful communications and acts by an individual citizen or between two or more citizens, including content that is spoken, written, or electronically transmitted. It shall extend to citizens regardless of their location, whether in private or in public.

The only exceptions will be as governed by the Fourth Amendment of this Constitution.
===============================================

Nothing very complicated here.
Just four short paragraphs that anyone can read and understand.

But THIS is what "stays the government's hand". It will breathe new life into the fourth amendment, and give the people the legal foundation they can stand on to put goverment spying on its own citizens back under control.

We already have a Constitution that prohibits what they admit they are doing. The President has officially said that they will continue this unconstitutional activity. The Constitution can't protect you if they ignore it with impunity.

 

[derek4484]

Problem is, at this point, the NSA will never back away from their current level of spying. It'll only get worse. They're uncontrollable and just lie when asked about their level of invasion of privacy. Spying, just like government, never gets smaller, only bigger.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

These tech companies are such blowhards.
This is nothing more than a publicity stunt.
Google could easily encrypt ALL data and be done with it however they know that it would eat into their ability to track users and generate revenue.

 

[SeattleMoose]

NSA = Nazis Spying on America

 

[TsunamiTheClown]

idk, the more i learn about the how data is really propagated throughout the web and cellular networks, the more i feel like it will never be secure.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Good letter. Nice thought. Noble ideals.

Unfortunately, it falls on deaf ears. The government will do whatever it wants to do. The people doing these things are not elected positions.

 

[xmaseve]

idk, the more i learn about the how data is really propagated throughout the web and cellular networks, the more i feel like it will never be secure.

Unfortunately, I have the same feeling. A fully encrypted internet would be a start where each person is in control of their exception key. Apple could start this by not using the same key for all user accounts and instead, give users the option to create their own unique key.

 

[Parasprite]

You don't understand the state of our political system. Even a third party candidate will have corporate lobbyists pulling their strings. Money and greed has destroyed our government.

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It prevents trolls from making accounts solely to troll articles that people tend to get passionate and upset about.

Excepting really dedicated trolls.

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Constitution

Nothing very complicated here.

Pick one.

 

[DisMyMac]

A prism splits light, yes? So the NSA physically sets up shop just outside of a company's server facility and splits the fiber optic signal before it reaches the company, taking an exact copy of everything for themselves as it flows into said company's servers, no permission required.

Prism may refer to godly Covenant rainbow. It's not only about internet connection- they're suggesting real telepathy in some forums.

Sorry but if you want the government to be transparent then you have to be transparent.

This is how communist states are run. I think it can work.

 

[NightFox]

NSA = Nazis Spying on America

Godwin's Law invoked after 63 posts, not too bad...

 

[phillipduran]

Great. These companies just made it onto the government's $hiit list. Glad to see someone taking a stand but I'm also a believer in that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.

It's not that you are going to do something wrong, it's that this world is paved with the dead bodies of people just like you who have become victims of governments that are the ones who are DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

When they know everything about everyone, they have actionable intel and can make decisions like, take the guns away from all citizens who are also Jewish and so on. This has happened over and over throughout history. We established a system in 1776 that puts restrictions on the government and puts power in the hands of the individual to be protected from the government. It's to establish that they need to keep their hands off you.

You have everything to hide because the government has no authority to look into your dealings without specific credible evidence that you are suspected of a crime. All of this blanket surveillance is completely wrong and is not justifiable because the possibility that there could be some terrorist information that found. Terrorism is a threat, but it is not a big enough of a threat to justify the attention and budget it has been getting. Our "transparent" government needs to be reigned in big time.

 

[caesarp]

People, should we really be concerned about the NSA? C'mon, a little agency that does nothing significant -- right? Oh wait a minute, wha'ts this giant thing in Utah:

Nothing to worry about -- right? What could be going on here:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/

Seriously, it is friggin' ridiculous how much money is spent on this. And for what? Cause people are scared of terrorist attacks. Heck, 9/11 killed less than 3,000 people and Al Queda was very very lucky to have pulled that off. So we are going to spend 10s of billions of dollars on eavesdropping everywhere and our own citizens. Doesn't seem like a cost effective way to do business.

We spend way toooo much on all this nonsense. Too much on the military; too much on Presidential protection (shut down I-95 when he comes to town -- please); too much on security and intelligence in general. Yeah, like China is going to invade us if we have less soldiers, tanks and bombs. Really -- you think so? They might take over an island near Taiwan -- frankly I don't care.

Treat terrorists like common criminals -- not war. Look at Israel. They got hit tons of times and lots more of their people killed. Are they using as much of their GDP on spying as we are? Doubtful.

There is no perfect security. People die every day. Stop worrying so much about our dumb security. Its a huge waste of money. Take 10% of the military and intelligence budget and apply that to our infrastructure, schools and basic applied science instead. We would all be better off for it.