Apple Blocks Update to UK NHS Contact Tracing App for Breaking Location Data Collection Rules

[gnasher729]

I'm pretty sure going against the UK government is going to explode in Apple's face here.

Apple refusing to add in backdoors to the OS that compromise device security for millions of citizens to find the isolated few criminals is one thing. Refusing to permit government health apps to be installed in a global pandemic is another.

It should be up to users whether they want to compromise on their privacy here, and in particular, they should make that decision by voting for their government officials. As far as I'm aware, the UK is a properly functioning democracy - if their leaders decided this is an acceptable measure to take for health reasons and they're not getting voted out, then it's the will of the people and Apple should stay out of it.

Apple and Google have some simple rules for their API: You can only use it if you are a national health organisation (in the case of the USA each state counts, in the case of the UK there are four), so you and I can't put an app using it on the App Store. And if you use the API, you are not allowed to send location data to anyone.

It's up to the UK (or probably England in this case) to decide whether they want to use the API, which means no sending of location data to anyone, or not. Which means no API, and they still have to go through the normal app review process.

And as far as I'm aware, the UK right now may be a democracy, but it is definitely not functioning properly - there is incompetence at an incredible scale. Heaven knows how they ever managed to get Covid vaccinations organised.

 

[CaTOAGU]

Protecting health and saving lives is more important than blindly enforcing the rules. Apple & Google need to be more flexible.

If that were true, the UK Government wouldn't have let 130,000 of it's citizens die from COVID.

 

[Wildkraut]

The UK government is corrupt to its core and it shows through this shambled of a tracker app.

Why did they not use the Apple / Google tracking API from the start and there would have been no issues, no battery drain problems with the other app, and it would have worked for users who must travel between countries.

Moreover, they would have been able to implement it in weeks, instead of the months it took.

The fact is, there are some fat cats, getting even fatter (including Johnson).

Name me one government that isn't corrupt, and so are "all" companies incl. Apple.

Anyway Apple is playing Hangman on dangerous ground. UK should punish their CEO for preventing saving lifes and make them personally statistically responsible for deaths that could have been avoided with that App, and also counter block Apple from operating and selling in UK.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Protecting health and saving lives is more important than blindly enforcing the rules. Apple & Google need to be more flexible.

This line of reasoning also got us the Patriot Act.

 

[qoop]

They’re going to be tracking faces soon anyway.

In Wales, facial tracking was in use until August 2020 when it was ruled unlawful. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest it's still in use on a trial/research basis.

Is police use of face recognition now illegal in the UK?

The UK Court of Appeal has determined that the use of a face-recognition system by South Wales Police was “unlawful”, which could have ramifications for the widespread use of such technology across the UK

www.newscientist.com

 

[beanbaguk]

Name me one government that isn't corrupt, and so are "all" companies incl. Apple.

Anyway Apple is playing Hangman on dangerous ground. UK should punish their CEO for preventing saving lifes and make them personally statistically responsible for deaths that could have been avoided with that App, and also counter block Apple from operating and selling in UK.

Block Apple from selling in the UK?! You are hilarious!

Suddenly shut down a huge element of economic stimulation and growth during the pandemic when recovery is severely needed. That seems like a grand idea. ?

The only semi-rational argument you make is all governments are corrupt. Just some more than others and Johnson's is particularly corrupt.

The only reason he removed the little snake Cummings was he utter arrogance and contempt:

Dominic Cummings accused of conflict of interest over NHS fund

Boris Johnson’s aide was consultant for AI startup that could win share of £250m fund

www.theguardian.com

Are the people behind the UK’s Coronavirus App friends or foes?

The London Economic - Palantir’s work in supporting the NHS in the development and implementation of the Coronavirus App is costing them in excess of £88,000 a week, yet they are charging just £1. - Opinion

www.thelondoneconomic.com

UK abandons contact-tracing app for Apple and Google model

NHS will switch to alternative design by tech giants, says Matt Hancock in latest embarrassing U-turn

www.theguardian.com

The fact he hasn't been criminally charged is beyond me.

Either way, I fully support Apple in their decision. They've not blocked the app. They have merely said the NHS cannot invade our privacy so find another way.

 

[mazz0]

The team behind this app are a disaster. First it was months late and now this! Surely someone had the brains to think of this. Millions of ££ wasted on something that other countries out together in a month. Disgraceful waste of tax payers money really. Wonder if the devs owned a bar before and are mates with Hancock.

I wonder if this was deliberate, a way for the government to displace blame for their abysmal track and trace system.

People see stories like this and some of them start to think it's Apple and Google's fault, not the government's. You can see examples of this thinking in this very thread.

The rules were always clear, so either this was a cockup by incompetent people who didn't understand the rules and didn't bother seeking confirmation from Apple and Google before wasting money developing something that's banned, or it's a deliberate cynical rouse to avoid responsibility. Given the government's history here either solution is perfectly plausible, though I suspect incompetence is the more likely explanation.

 

[Wildkraut]

Block Apple from selling in the UK?! You are hilarious!

Suddenly shut down a huge element of economic stimulation and growth during the pandemic when recovery is severely needed. That seems like a grand idea. ?

Apple knows that sadly there is no "duty to rescue" in UK.

Of which economic stimulation do you speak?
Of the few lower paid AppleStore employees?
You know why Apple weight that much, right?

HINT: Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement#Multinationals_that_used_Irish_BEPS_tools

 

[IG88]

Refusing to permit government health surveillance apps to be installed in a using the cover of a global pandemic....

FIFY.

 

[Stromos]

Protecting health and saving lives is more important than blindly enforcing the rules. Apple & Google need to be more flexible.

Nope. Time and time again once you allow something its incredibly harder to not allow it anymore. My company makes us take a survey on our phone daily now before we can enter the building. It was implemented for safety during the pandemic. Now with vaccinated people on the rise someone asked at our last town hall when we could stop taking the daily survey. Company responded with well we actually like checking the "wellness" of employees daily. We are going rebrand the daily Covid check-in to the daily wellness check-in and keep it implemented indefinitely.

Any complaints were refuted with you already do it so keep doing it. So basically find a new job or suck it up.

 

[Alan Wynn]

This report would seem to suggest that a buzzer doesn’t in fact go off in Boris Johnson’s office every time I nip to Sainsbury’s.

It does not a buzzer in his office. It is a notification on his iPhone. He can then dismiss it, or begin to follow you on every traffic cam and bank ATM security cam.

That can’t be right surely. How else can big brother keep an eye on my movements?

Satellites.

 

[1258186]

The forum seem to greatly “agree” with your opinion I see. Unfortunately, this is the sort of mentality the UK government is having recently.

What mentality would that be? They’re trying to stop a pandemic and save lives. PS I don’t make comments for likes or dislikes, I say what I think.

 

[1258186]

Either way, I fully support Apple in their decision. They've not blocked the app. They have merely said the NHS cannot invade our privacy so find another way.

Track & Trace. The clue is in the name. The update would have automated an existing manual process making it more useful. Apple & Google could easily have passed this with a time limit on its use. Also, the NHS App is entirely voluntary. Nobody is forced to download it or use it.

 

[nnoble]

It's optional they said. It's not spying on you,they said. It's not a police state they said. And now, it's forced and you are oppressed under threat of arrest and persecution by the state.

And the big "charities" Amnesty International, "civil liberties" outfits, etc. not a single peep from any of them. These so-called rights organizations are nothing more than disingenuous, political special interest groups that when push comes to shove "just follow orders" especially if regular people are oppressed instead of some trendy new scam they're running

Big charities said nothing because they engaged brain prior to putting their foot in it. If you don't want to use the app, simply don't download and install it though you'll no doubt be disappointed to find out nobody will come and get you.

 

[BvizioN]

What mentality would that be? They’re trying to stop a pandemic and save lives. PS I don’t make comments for likes or dislikes, I say what I think.

What mentality? Destroying the economy, ironically damaging people’s health which they pretend they are protecting, making UK like North Korea , illegal to leave the country, turing people into “sheep’s” afraid to remove face masks even when they go to sleep, destroying peoples jobs and business, all in the name of so called “pandemic”. Honestly, they just have no idea what they are doing.

 

[1258186]

This is just ridiculously stupid. We can protect health and save lives by making people _use_ this app. And we make them use it by giving strong guarantees that their privacy is protected. If that update went through I’d instantly delete the app from my phone and tell all friends and relatives to do the same. Lives and health would be much better protected by firing Dido Harding instantly.

The NHS app is entirely voluntary. If you don’t like it then go ahead and delete it. Nobody cares.

 

[Td1970]

They have the choice. Remove their code that spies on my location data, or not have the app on the AppStore or playstore. Up to them.

So the hell with contact tracing in the us? Blood is on apples hands now. Lol

 

[1258186]

What mentality? Destroying the economy, ironically damaging people’s health which they pretend they are protecting, making UK like North Korea , illegal to leave the country, turing people into “sheep’s” afraid to remove face masks even when they go to sleep, destroying peoples jobs and business, all in the name of so called “pandemic”. Honestly, they just have no idea what they are doing.

Tin hat conspiracy theories and blatant lies have undermined efforts to fight this pandemic and caused thousands of extra deaths.

 

[Td1970]

What mentality? Destroying the economy, ironically damaging people’s health which they pretend they are protecting, making UK like North Korea , illegal to leave the country, turing people into “sheep’s” afraid to remove face masks even when they go to sleep, destroying peoples jobs and business, all in the name of so called “pandemic”. Honestly, they just have no idea what they are doing.

Oh. Your one of those people. Smfh.

 

[1258186]

I do not believe this is that simple.

If we say that health and saving lives is the most important value above everything else, our world should look very different from what it is now. Alcohol and unhealthy food should be banned today, walking 10 000 steps a day should be mandatory, maximum speed limit 20 mph.

Health is an important value, but we have already accepted that even there we can make compromises. Privacy is an important value, as well, and tracking puts these two values in conflict. Making that compromise is a matter of values, and there is no "of course" in the answer.

It’s just an app. It’s there to help protect people. You’re not forced to download it or use it.

 

[wyarp]

yep, the political landscape here in the UK is awfully dismal.

I suspect people from ANY country (except dictatorship where freedom of speech is completely denied such as North Korea) would say the same of their political landscapes.

Regardless, it's not even remotely close to the utter DISASTER that the political landscape in the USA has been for the past 5 years!

 

[polyphenol]

Technically this discussion is England only. In Wales and Scotland we have our own apps, and as I highlighted on page 1, we have a solution to the problem that the English are trying to solve.

Not so. Scotland has its own app but Wales and England have the same app.

 

[ruka.snow]

Not so. Scotland has its own app but Wales and England have the same app.

Ah, strange, I was sure the NHS was devolved in Wales too. Oh well, it isn't such a hardship sharing a app with a neighbouring nation I am sure.

 

[polyphenol]

Ah, strange, I was sure the NHS was devolved in Wales too. Oh well, it isn't such a hardship sharing a app with a neighbouring nation I am sure.

Yes - health in Wales is devolved. GIG Cymru yw’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Genedlaethol am Gymru.

But, for whatever reason, they went along with the NHS England app - though there are a few accommodations like jumping to the Wales government advice.

 

[interstella]

It'd be interesting to see exactly how many people are even using this app. My local town may not be a representative sample as it's small and has an older demographic but I rarely see people scanning the QR code. Most businesses don't seem to care if you use it or not.