Apple Doesn't Have to Change App Store Rules Yet, Rules Supreme Court in Ongoing Epic Dispute

[sw1tcher]

Epic lost billions already by this stunt by not being on Apple products. Those players left and moved on. Fortnite isn’t as big as it once was.

Epic will fade away

🤣 Epic is doomed. Doomed!

2021 = $28.7 billion valuation
2022 = $31.5 billion valuation
2023 = $32 billion valuation

Epic Games Raised $2 Billion. Its Valuation Rivals Publicly Traded Games Giants.

The company, best known for creating the Fortnite game and the Unreal Engine development tool, hit a private valuation of $31.5 billion.

www.barrons.com

Epic Games Raised $2 Billion. Its Valuation Rivals Publicly Traded Games Giants.

April 11, 2022

Epic Games said it raised $2 billion in a funding round that including Sony Group and LEGO Group owner Kirkbi as investors. The company, best known for creating the Fortnite game and the Unreal Engine development tool, hit a private valuation of $31.5 billion.

Sony and Kirkbi each invested $1 billion, Epic said. CEO and founder Tim Sweeney still has a controlling stake in the firm, the company said.

Epic announced a $1 billion round that valued the firm at $28.7 billion in April 2021. The higher valuation is a good sign for Epic, given how public markets soured on videogame companies in the past year.

The $31.5 billion figure compares to EA’s recent market capitalization of $34.5 billion and Take-Two Interactive Software ’s recent capitalization of $16.2 billion.

 

[antiprotest]

When will the 90 days run out?

After 90 days.

 

[sw1tcher]

Tencent owns Epic and Tencent is worth roughly 471 billion USD. As rich as Apple is, that'd be a hefty purchase.

Tencent only owns about 40 percent of Epic Games

 

[Unregistered 4U]

It likely comes down to what laws in place would mean this would not affect any other company’s ability to anti-steer in the US but ONLY affect Apple.

 

[zarmanto]

Epic lost billions already by this stunt by not being on Apple products. Those players left and moved on. Fortnite isn’t as big as it once was.

Epic will fade away

Care to cite sources? Because a very quick Google search suggests that you are quite wrong.

Further, Apple users were always a fairly small percentage of the total Fortnite revenue; thus, you might reasonably wonder why Epic bothered with these overtly theatrical legal maneuverings at all. My take on that is: mobile platforms represent a small but large and rapidly growing demographic. Epic's objective is and always has been to create a scenario where they could claim even more revenue from that demographic in the long-term, not only by destroying Apple's ability to take their cut of the revenue, but also by destroying Apple's ability to control the distribution of apps to Apple devices (the App Store)... because ultimately, completely wrestling both payment processing and the App Store away from Apple would be the only way for Epic to truly "win" in such a venture.

One person in this thread suggested that Epic should just move on to "Fortnite 2". This seems prescient to me... because if Epic were to succeed in this gambit, you can bet that a Fortnite sequel would only be the tip of the iceberg.

(Edited to present a more accurate representation of the mobile market, per gnipgnop's comment.)

 

[neuropsychguy]

You love to see it. I hope this trial ends Epic.

I don't. I like the free games they give away.

 

[Minato1990]

Apple should sue Epic for all their legal fees once this ordeal is over

They should really.
Good riddance epic

 

[gnipgnop]

My take on that is: mobile platforms represent a small but rapidly growing demographic.

Mobile gaming generates more revenue per year than console and PC gaming combined. That's why Epic is suddenly so concerned about mobile app stores and Apple's rules. That's why Microsoft bought Activision/Blizzard...the only game franchise in that portfolio that generated more money than Call of Duty was the mobile title Candy Crush.

 

[erikkfi]

So we all actually believe that Apple’s policy of preventing developers from referring users to non-Apple methods of payment is good? Is that more about hatred for Epic, or hatred of ourselves as consumers?

 

[zarmanto]

Mobile gaming generates more revenue per year than console and PC gaming combined. That's why Epic is suddenly so concerned about mobile app stores and Apple's rules. That's why Microsoft bought Activision/Blizzard...the only game franchise in that portfolio that generated more money than Call of Duty was the mobile title Candy Crush.

Quite true: I stand corrected. (It does kind'a reinforce my primary point, though.)

 

[spazzcat]

How many millions has Epic lost by not being in the app store?

 

[spazzcat]

🤣 Epic is doomed. Doomed!

2021 = $28.7 billion valuation
2022 = $31.5 billion valuation
2023 = $32 billion valuation

Epic Games Raised $2 Billion. Its Valuation Rivals Publicly Traded Games Giants.

The company, best known for creating the Fortnite game and the Unreal Engine development tool, hit a private valuation of $31.5 billion.

www.barrons.com

Epic Games Raised $2 Billion. Its Valuation Rivals Publicly Traded Games Giants.

April 11, 2022

Epic Games said it raised $2 billion in a funding round that including Sony Group and LEGO Group owner Kirkbi as investors. The company, best known for creating the Fortnite game and the Unreal Engine development tool, hit a private valuation of $31.5 billion.

Sony and Kirkbi each invested $1 billion, Epic said. CEO and founder Tim Sweeney still has a controlling stake in the firm, the company said.

Epic announced a $1 billion round that valued the firm at $28.7 billion in April 2021. The higher valuation is a good sign for Epic, given how public markets soured on videogame companies in the past year.

The $31.5 billion figure compares to EA’s recent market capitalization of $34.5 billion and Take-Two Interactive Software ’s recent capitalization of $16.2 billion.

What are their gross profits for those years?

 

[zarmanto]

How many millions has Epic lost by not being in the app store?

I think this is the wrong question -- or at least, it's not the question that Epic is asking. They're asking, "How many more millions do we stand to gain, by eliminating Apple's ability to act as a gatekeeper?"

 

[zarmanto]

What are their gross profits for those years?

It's not easy to find accurate figures for 2022/2023, but the average figures (for Fortnite alone) seem to be about 5 billion per year and growing.

Year	Revenue
2022	$6+ billion
2021	$5.8 billion
2020	$5.1 billion
2019	$3.7 billion
2018	$5.4 billion

(Reference)

 

[MysticCow]

Apple should just buy Epic

Apple should have bought ActiBlizz while it was for sale. I mean, ActiBlizz is about the ONLY company making Mac games so it’d be a good fit.

And Apple would have an in-house game studio. And Apple would have games like Halo was supposed to be (it was originally going to be Mac-only).

 

[Wildkraut]

Apple 1 - Epic 0
Let the games continue

Yep, just a matter of time till a superior general law appears in the US, just like in the EU.

DMA (infinity plus) - Apple (sub zero)

 

[zarmanto]

... And Apple would have games like Halo was supposed to be (it was originally going to be Mac-only).

Not quite true. While it was developed by Bungie, a studio which originally focused on Mac gaming, and it was even announced to the world at a Macworld conference and introduced by Steve Jobs himself, Halo was always intended to be their big break, and planned from the very beginning to be a multi-platform juggernaut. The original build which was shown privately to reporters at E3 in 1999 (under non-disclosure agreement) was actually running on a PC, but naturally they ran it on a Mac for the subsequent Macworld demo later that year.

Of course, most old Macheads know at least part of the story... shortly after that, Microsoft bought Bungie, because they saw the potential and realized that they could most effectively exploit that potential by making it (at least initially) an Xbox exclusive title. That was obviously extremely successful. A Windows port followed, and then a Mac version eventually showed up as well... but it was too-little-too-late, as Macheads had essentially lost all love for Bungie by that point. And of course, there were no Mac ports of the Halo sequels.

The rest, as we all know, is history.

 

[jz0309]

Yep, just a matter of time till a superior general law appears in the US, just like in the EU.

DMA (infinity plus) - Apple (sub zero)

well, apparently the US Supreme Court is considering taking this on, so let's just see what happens before drawing any conclusions ...

 

[AtomicDusk]

I can't see a winning side for epic - either they lose, obviously not a winning side, or even if they win wouldn't this open the door for V-bucks to be purchased in an alternate location/payment method? Do cosmetic stores supporting Fortnite open up elsewhere for use in Fortnite or a 3rd party store within Fortnite?

I'm sure these are all questions the Supreme Court will pose. But I'm curious from any armchair lawyer perspectives if anyone wants a friendly discussion.

 

[Chazak]

Any day in court where Tim Sweeney loses big or small is a good day.

 

[Chazak]

Apple probably has insurance, they probably don't have to pay much in legal fees if they win a case.

Apple is most likely self insured. With the size of bullseye on their back, premiums for this kind of liability protection would greatly exceed potential losses. It would make no sense for Apple to insure itself against these kinds of costs.

 

[SFjohn]

The only winners in all of this are Apple's lawyers who are laughing to the bank.

Epic's lawyers will be too while the company sinks.

Apple’s lawyers I’m sure are salaried employees, and Epic’s lawyers are being paid by outside organizations (governments & competing companies). So it’s really just business as usual. 🤮

 

[Chazak]

Apple’s lawyers I’m sure are salaried employees, and Epic’s lawyers are being paid by outside organizations (governments & competing companies). So it’s really just business as usual. 🤮

You are incorrect on a few accounts.

Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher is representing Apple and Cravath, Swaine & Moore are representing Epic. Both are old line, white shoe firms which have groups specializing in these types of cases. None of them are Apple employees.

You will need to supply some evidence governments are paying part of Epic's legal fees otherwise I will reasonably conclude that is false.

It is not "business as usual" as your comment says.

 

[TVreporter]

Apple doesn't pay outside counsel. They have a very large legal staff.

It was a joke … no one wins in this

 

[thays133]

Apple 1 - Epic 0
Let the games continue

Tell you the truth it is still more like Apple 1 - Epic 2 and it is half time.

Apple lost both the district and Appeals court.

If apple fails to appeal or if the SCOTUS refuses to hear the case Apple looses and must make the changes immediately.

Considering that there is not a conflicting ruling in another circuit there is a good chance the SCOTUS does not take up the case which means apple looses.