Good for Apple, and I just hope that everything works out OK for Greece, especially for all the innocent Greek people who had nothing to do with the current problems, of whom there are many.
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Apple Gives iCloud Customers in Greece 30 Extra Days of Storage Amid Fiscal Crisis
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That is NOT completely missing in Greece, nor in Portugal, and nor in Spain. People in the south WANT jobs… except there ARE NONE to be seen, especially for young people. We are not lazy! We work our ASSES off when we are lucky enough to have a job, for near-slavery “wages” (I'd even say that some slaves were better off than some interns, as their owners had to make sure they survived in order to maximize their investment; nowadays, unpaid or under-paid internships are more common than not and, guess what, you either go back to your parents' place or you starve. Nice!).
Case in point: I'm friends with around twenty HIGHLY QUALIFIED people who left the country, since the economy was so botched they couldn't get a decent job anywhere (yes, not just jobs in services, but on actually sellable goods). Guessed who paid for their education? US. With OUR taxes. Guess who is benefiting from all that investment? The british, german, french et. al. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE is friends/family with at least of 5-20 young people who left recently (if I extended that count to acquaintances, the number would surely rise above 50). In 2013 alone, at least 110.000 people (in a country with a population of around 10 million) left the country… It is estimated that there are currently 2.3 million portuguese living abroad… and most aren't doing it for sport or to “gain experience”, but out of sheer necessity. Do you think that's normal or desirable by any measure?
As for the “EU solidarity”, that's a load of bollocks… CEOs and politicians were complicit with policies (including the Common Agricultural Policy), the imposition of production quotas and forceful imports in exchange for subsidies… that took us nowhere. We used to produce our own trains; now we import them from Germany. We used to grow our own food; now we import it from the EU and also some other exotic places, at great energetic expense. Our utilities were sold to the chinese. Our airports, bridges and the former telecom company, to the french. Oh, and we now have not one, but *two* highways from Lisbon to Porto (partly funded by EU-funds and loans, I'm guessing).
Sure, much of that might be attributable to a lack of democratic culture by the people (something not that hard to understand after 40 years of fascism and sub-par education). But what about the lenders, our “EU friends”? Are they exempt from responsibility? Shouldn't there have been SOME supervision? Some independent studies before throwing bags of cash so the “lazy south” could build redundant highways and all sorts of useless public projects?
I, for one, was born in 1985 and only started voting in 2003. Why should I be punished by decisions made by irresponsible politicians when I was a kid? Give me a break. Nor should the young greeks, who never voted for PASOK or ND. You people should all be ashamed to make stupid comparisons, really. But since you've brought the topic of WWII, here goes: Right now, there is a MASSIVE economic war undergoing in the world and, by proxy, in Europe. Basically we have the big capital and big finance trying to deregulate the EU markets at all costs and turn it into the new China/Bangladesh/[insert third world labour market] and Europe, out of sheer stupidity and old divisions, are letting them have their way (nay, even enhancing it!). Internally, there is a North/South (Protestant/Catholic) divide (I know this is a bit of a gross simplification, but take it for what it is) and a East/West divide (with the newcomers, still recovering from their split from the USSR, wanting to throw Greece under the bus and, ironically – and, more important, stupidly – enough into the arms of Vladimir Putin).
I mean, seriously! At the head of them you have Germany, of all nations, speaking of “discipline”, “trust”, “efficiency” and all sorts of crap. I mean, THE NERVE of the germans! I know very well of all the public spending shenanigans and inefficiencies they also have in their record, like the infamous and massively over-budget Berlin/Brandenburg airport which keeps getting delayed… No, I don't even have to go into those examples from the past… I, as a citizen from the EU, am probably also suffering some kind of penalty from overspending on the richer parts of the Union, and you don't usually hear me complaining about that. But I am well informed and refuse to be looked down upon just because I come from the “lazy south”. Not without a fight, at least.
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Absolutely not.
No offense, but what a stupid comparison. Besides that, the European Union is a democracy, all members have a vote, not only Germany, which by the way is the biggest creditor and financial supporter of Greece.
The problem is that people like to just compare the data points that suit their argument.
The only thing similar to the time when Germany got debt cut to Greece today is that both have had or have a debt. Full stop. Other then that there is no similarity. And because Germany cut their debts cut leads to the argument the Greece should to.
But in fact they shouldn't because their over the top spending did bring them here and they do not intend to stop this spending for whatever reasons that are beyond me.
I think thats what really sucks for many many Greece people who are at the bottom. Where did all the money go? Looks like it went to the top...Looks like you needed friends or family in a good position. From what I hear 25% of people do work for the state and still this state isn't able to or does not have the will to really collect all the taxes. Why?
This is question of my ignorance, but isn't the Euro a method to achieve the Common Market, or am I conflagurating two ideas?
- A common currency that makes the market common, so that there is no "Well, this costs 1000 DM, and that is 14,000 Drachmas today," and tomorrow, it's 16,000 Drachmas. Having the Euro means that something that is 1000 Eruos is the same as it is tomorrow, as it it is no matter where in Europe you are. Your Greek Euros are the same as my German ones. (I remember coming over as an American in 1992, and the fun of remembering the conversion rates was fun... not). Now, the difference between a Greek Euro and a German Euro may be in how much it buys, just like a loaf of bread in New York City vs. Odessa, Kansas.
What am I missing?
As I wrote at the end of the post, I assume otherwise. I'm not acquaintanced with the German culture, but I think it is a given. The comparison with Nazi Germany was simply to point out that, if that could be forgiven, why can't Greece?
Still, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm also from a southern country, and I can relate what you said with reality. Portugal has largely suffered from the same problems Greece does, with the difference it was not so bad.
So it isn't really surprising for me what's happening to Greece, specially these last five months, which have been disastrous and, as I feared, led to nowhere. Not to mention the referendum, which was an utter responsibility.
Nonetheless, there is too much corruption in Portugal, industry and agriculture is scarcer than it needed. I mean, living from services and tourism isn't feasible for a strong economy IMO. It's worth pointing out, though, that there were many high-profile arrests in our country for the last year.
The Euro was never really about trade; it was a political device.
In order to achieve a successful single currency, you must have fiscal union. That in turn means political union, which would be a federal state; a United States of Europe. Some countries like France are keen on that idea; others like Great Britain are not.
The problem is that Europe is made up of very different cultures that are too different to be joined by monetary union. A single currency is a straitjacket that prevents countries from finding a natural level, because the interest rate will always be a compromise to suit the EU and not individual countries.
The other huge problem is immigration. Countries want to control their borders. The EU makes that difficult.
As to a single currency lubricating trade: is trade between the U.S. and Europe hampered by two currencies? No. Similarly, trade between the UK and Europe flows just as smoothly with the British Pound. A single currency is slightly more convenient for holidaymakers, but with cash on the decline, this is much less of an issue these days.
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The internal market doesn’t need a common currency per se. The EC had an exchange rate mechanism for nearly 20 years before the Euro was adopted and it greatly helped stabilising currency exchange rates after the US abandoned the gold standard. The European Monetary Union was developed in several stages with the Euro as a the crown piece. The problem with lots of these European projects is that politicians always seem to get carried away and rake decisions against their better judgment, with the resulting mess we have now and no way to move forward.
I am a staunch proponent of the EU and I don’t think that it should be disbanded. People who say that we just need a common market and no EU are oblivious to the fact that we’ve been at that position before and it turned out that countries are still extremely protective of their own economies and seek to undermine the idea of an integrated market that is beyond their unilateral control whenever it suits them, even if the protected interests are relatively small. Many of the EU’s current problems are the result of the patchwork of treaties and lack of truly independent federal institutions and lawmakers. The fact that we have something like a European Council is part of the problem.
First, there are lots and lots of people here in the US who work 3 different jobs and 16 hours per day and barely pay their bills and rent. Also lots that due in the streets. Probably more people like that here than the total population of Greece. Greece isn't special in this regard. Their problems today are caused by the corruption, misdeeds, and false promises of the few from the past. What does any of that have to do with iCloud?
Second, how is free iCloud storage going to help people that can barely pay their rent and bills or starving in the streets? This just helps those that can afford iPhones - probably people who aren't doing too bad to begin with. This doesn't help those in need at all.
Apple did this because they would rather give folks in Greece another month to pay their iCloud bills rather than have 1000s of credit card numbers be declined all at once - that would be a pain and it might hurt their "App store accounts with active credit cards on file" numbers that they love to brag about.
Not saying Apple isn't an otherwise generous and altruistic company - it is. But this act in particular isn't an example of it. This act is purely to prevent an accounts debacle.
Not really. I can't think of way to tie this to California and I've tried, like, really hard. I'm taxing my brain like crazy and it's not making things any easier!
Many of the current fiscal problems in Greece are the direct result of decades of corruption and mis government. We as individuals are expected to take responsibility for our actions and I don't think many of us would expect to see our debt, however it was accumulated, to be wiped out or even reduced. Why then should the corrupt and incompetent governors of Greece receive such favors? Remember it is the rest of us who are paying and effectively subsidizing their incompetence.
Of course Greece is important strategically, and we should help them in any reasonable way possible.. But only if and when they sort their own issues once and for all. They should also be required to ensure that it is not the poor and vulnerable who pay. It was the rich, the powerful and above all the bankers who got them where they are. The banks still make billions and ALL those profits should go to reduce the debt before even a cent is taken from the poor or from pensioners.
Of course Greece is important strategically, and we should help them in any reasonable way possible.. But only if and when they sort their own issues once and for all. They should also be required to ensure that it is not the poor and vulnerable who pay. It was the rich, the powerful and above all the bankers who got them where they are. The banks still make billions and ALL those profits should go to reduce the debt before even a cent is taken from the poor or from pensioners.
Ouch..... to be fair, relentless heat is not conducive to hard work.
On topic..... notwithstanding the usual bitchers and whiners about Apple's billions, a move like this 30-day free period for our Greek friends is one of many reasons why Apple as a company is admired so much, and has so many loyal customers.
Sure you can argue that in this case Apple didn't have much choice, but they nevertheless acted swiftly in this matter.
Great move, but as a practical matter, what does this solve?.. Perhaps they should suspend indefinitely, put on iCloud storage payment bills to Greece on hiatus until further notice, and allow things to get sorted out. And perhaps that's what they'll ultimately wind up doing in 30 day increments.
I hope the Greek people reject the troika, reject the Euro, and return to their own currency. Under the Euro, Greece is straitjacketed in terms of what they're able to do unilaterally to fix their economy. A nation cannot be fully sovereign if they're not in control of their own currency.
I hope the Greek people reject the troika, reject the Euro, and return to their own currency. Under the Euro, Greece is straitjacketed in terms of what they're able to do unilaterally to fix their economy. A nation cannot be fully sovereign if they're not in control of their own currency.
UN human rights experts welcome Greek referendum and call for international solidarity
The President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, was bitch slapping EU leaders, calling Hungarian PM 'dictator' in front of the press at the EU-Eastern Partnership summit in Latvia.
Greece must follow Argetinas exit and build its future on its own economy.... otherwise everything will be sold to German corporations and the working class will continue suffering.
The President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, was bitch slapping EU leaders, calling Hungarian PM 'dictator' in front of the press at the EU-Eastern Partnership summit in Latvia.
Greece must follow Argetinas exit and build its future on its own economy.... otherwise everything will be sold to German corporations and the working class will continue suffering.
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Apple is not doing this out of altruism. With banks shut down it would have to lock 1000s of accounts for non-payment, not because the respective owner couldn't pay, but because the payment infrastructure was down and Apple has no way to collect. Canceling accounts in that environment would only create bigger problems for Apple. It's far cheaper for it to skip a month's payment. It's just good business sense.
Made me smile.
I guess horror stories in the press about the citizens of an entire country losing access to their personal data (and other iCloud services) would be a bit of a downer.
Especially with the launch of Apple Music in full swing.
Calls the whole cloud computing approach into question, don't you think?
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With a NeoDrachme Greeks has 2 paths open. Either implement the same reforms to keep it at 0.50€ (assuming it was 1/1 on day one) or print more and more to continue the politics of the past 30++ years. Either way ordinary Greeks will get poorer.
Yeah, cos Argentina is such a success story !!
Being in the EU or not doesn't affect your access to anything. Switzerland isn't in the EU and it trades just fine with the rest of Europe. The Greek problem isn't EU membership, it's that they changed currency to the Euro. When the Greek government did that, they lost the ability to set their own interest rates, control their own money supply or devalue their own currency - which are three of the most powerful economic controls for stopping a country going into fiscal meltdown.
If those highly qualified friends of yours were that patriotic and bothered about your economy, they'd be sticking around to use their skills to bring the country back out of economic meltdown - going into politics or using entrepreneurship to help create jobs for those not fortunate enough to have such a great education. A massive skill exodus will only make matters worse.
Your economy will not get better on its own - fix it from within. What other solution do you see to the problem? While you cannot blame the people of Portugal, you should be blaming the people they elected. Crying victim by blaming Germany doesn't solve anything.
Greece should be kicked out of the Eurozone, declare bankruptcy and start again as some other countries did in the past. Don't forget they've never actually met the criteria of ERM II to get the EURO in the first place but rather they have cheated on their macro-economical statistics.
You simply can't have such a social, welfare state (low retirement age, benefits, tax exemptions etc.) combined with absolutely ridiculous tax collection levels and corruption running through all levels of government.
And don't forget:
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” Margaret Thatcher
You simply can't have such a social, welfare state (low retirement age, benefits, tax exemptions etc.) combined with absolutely ridiculous tax collection levels and corruption running through all levels of government.
And don't forget:
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” Margaret Thatcher
Correct, both is needed though.
Part of the debt needs to be written off however an own currency will enable Greece to control its fiscal policies again and if they agree to certain changes to their welfare state, I believe the new currency might get support of third parties in order to sustain its exchange rate in reasonable levels for a start.