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Starfyre

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 7, 2010
2,905
1,136
Read several articles about how android and other companies have set trends like NightShift, etc. and Apple this time around with the iPhone 11 appears to be following them. I feel like the wide angle cameras, etc. does seem to make Apple seem to be more of a follower than an innovator this year.

I feel like back when iPhone did their dual camera, it was really innovative, removing mic jack, etc. Though I wonder if the removal of TouchID might have been a step in the wrong direction, and now they are kinda taking a cautious eye on what others are doing, then following suit.

What are your thoughts on this?
 

thebeachbum

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2012
66
32
Texas
Even Apple has to look at the market and end user occasionally to determine what sells. I think, unfortunately, they are looking and responding. Innovation seems to have taken a backseat for the moment. My .02.
 

ray6712

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2012
296
127
StL
The word innovation is so overhyped now! The thing is it’s Apple and it’s everyone else meaning a ton of Android phone makers. And since the only thing tech reviewers want to see is something new daily Apple is stale to them!

Watch the Note 10 is the greatest handset ever till Next week when the pixel drops a phone that is only great at taking still photos and then after that a new One Plus I’ll drop and it’s the greatest!

Then next year when Apple redesigns the phone everyone will only say well Android has had this for...

The thing is you can have all the gadgets it’s how well it’s implemented that makes it mainstream or not and this is where Apple wins!!

How many innovations have really come outta Android not dual cams not an assistant although google assistant is great!

Not even the full touch screen phone, yea they have higher points screens but I he phones don’t last as long hardly get updated to a full new operating system and so forth case in point material design has been around as long as iOS 7 yet no one says a thing!
 
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animalx

macrumors 6502
Apr 1, 2013
473
324
Read several articles about how android and other companies have set trends like NightShift, etc. and Apple this time around with the iPhone 11 appears to be following them. I feel like the wide angle cameras, etc. does seem to make Apple seem to be more of a follower than an innovator this year.

I feel like back when iPhone did their dual camera, it was really innovative, removing mic jack, etc. Though I wonder if the removal of TouchID might have been a step in the wrong direction, and now they are kinda taking a cautious eye on what others are doing, then following suit.

What are your thoughts on this?

This isn't something limited to just this time around. If you look at their releases, they've been playing follow the leader for years. Dual camera wasn't innovative. It had already been done. Removing the 3.5mm jack, had already been done. The iPhone hasn't really been bringing anything innovative to the table. It has just been adding features that other phones already had. Their biggest release in recent times was the X, and all that was was a poor man's Galaxy phone. They added wireless charging that had been available for half a decade, and face unlock that had been around for half a decade. This release just continues a well-established pattern of an annual Android feature add-on. Apple is basically selling yesterday's tech for today's prices, and they have been for years.
 

donawalt

Contributor
Sep 10, 2015
1,159
567
The fundamental issue is people's expectations of what happens to a product from year to year. Have you noticed, you never hear anyone say "I really don't think <Toyota/Mercedes/Honda/Audi etc.) is as good as a car manufacturer anymore, there is no innovation in their <2019/2020> cars? Nope - we have come to accept that cars are a mature product, and while there may be great innovation under the hood that we don't immediately see, there clearly is not anything earth shattering in a car - nor do we clammer for things like say, 5 wheels; 2 steering wheels so a passenger can assist; etc.

That said, I look at the iPhone 11 Pro and see a mature product (smartphone) but with some nice innovations that clearly go beyond just trying to make a "new" phone that is faster and more current than last year, with no innovation. There are probably more things, but isn't this innovation?

  1. The camera - besides the improvement in all the basic parameters that the world yawns over, how about (1) a portrait mode that now works with animals and objects? Portrait mode has to be able to separate the object of the photo with the background, so the background can be independently sharpened or blurred for effect - all well within a second. Imagine the challenges of moving this technology from just people to animals and any object you might take a picture of! (2) To get some of the nice effects, including night vision, they take 9 pictures, 8 of which are taken before you even tap the shutter, and combine them on a pixel basis to get the best picture. Think about just the problem of ensuring that color calibration and all the other calibrations are identical and accurate, and even ambient parameters like lighting are identical or adjustable, so the combined photo doesn't look like someone cut out pieces of 9 different pictures and glued them together.
  2. Touch ID - it's now able to authenticate further away, and at greater angles, and is 30% faster - like it sitting on the desk and you are on the side of it, looking at it. This one is useful too, I leave my phone on the desk all the time and will love Face ID working on more extreme angles.
  3. A better OLED screen, yet it uses 15% less power.
  4. Did you see the screen shot in the presentation how they can selectively light up/power up just the portions of the SoC that are needed, saving power and improving efficiency? I have been around manufacturing of electronics boards for 30+ years, this is amazing too me. They said 100 Voltage domains, underneath is 100s of thousands of small domains that can be powered individually. Amazing.
  5. A new speaker pair that sends the sounds out spatially? Rather than being constrained to 2 channels, sounds can be precisely placed and moved in three-dimensional space for better realism and sensation. No phone that I am aware of can do this.
Like I said, there are probably other things. Maybe I impress easily but the engineers are doing some nice work here.
 

LovingTeddy

Suspended
Oct 12, 2015
1,848
2,153
Canada
The fundamental issue is people's expectations of what happens to a product from year to year. Have you noticed, you never hear anyone say "I really don't think <Toyota/Mercedes/Honda/Audi etc.) is as good as a car manufacturer anymore, there is no innovation in their <2019/2020> cars? Nope - we have come to accept that cars are a mature product, and while there may be great innovation under the hood that we don't immediately see, there clearly is not anything earth shattering in a car - nor do we clammer for things like say, 5 wheels; 2 steering wheels so a passenger can assist; etc.

That said, I look at the iPhone 11 Pro and see a mature product (smartphone) but with some nice innovations that clearly go beyond just trying to make a "new" phone that is faster and more current than last year, with no innovation. There are probably more things, but isn't this innovation?

  1. The camera - besides the improvement in all the basic parameters that the world yawns over, how about (1) a portrait mode that now works with animals and objects? Portrait mode has to be able to separate the object of the photo with the background, so the background can be independently sharpened or blurred for effect - all well within a second. Imagine the challenges of moving this technology from just people to animals and any object you might take a picture of! (2) To get some of the nice effects, including night vision, they take 9 pictures, 8 of which are taken before you even tap the shutter, and combine them on a pixel basis to get the best picture. Think about just the problem of ensuring that color calibration and all the other calibrations are identical and accurate, and even ambient parameters like lighting are identical or adjustable, so the combined photo doesn't look like someone cut out pieces of 9 different pictures and glued them together.
  2. Touch ID - it's now able to authenticate further away, and at greater angles, and is 30% faster - like it sitting on the desk and you are on the side of it, looking at it. This one is useful too, I leave my phone on the desk all the time and will love Face ID working on more extreme angles.
  3. A better OLED screen, yet it uses 15% less power.
  4. Did you see the screen shot in the presentation how they can selectively light up/power up just the portions of the SoC that are needed, saving power and improving efficiency? I have been around manufacturing of electronics boards for 30+ years, this is amazing too me. They said 100 Voltage domains, underneath is 100s of thousands of small domains that can be powered individually. Amazing.
  5. A new speaker pair that sends the sounds out spatially? Rather than being constrained to 2 channels, sounds can be precisely placed and moved in three-dimensional space for better realism and sensation. No phone that I am aware of can do this.
Like I said, there are probably other things. Maybe I impress easily but the engineers are doing some nice work here.

I see car has plenty of innovation coming out. For example, engine performance is better, you have a 4 cylinders engine that out perform 6 cylinders engine from 10 years ago. Yes also have more cleaner engine, which produce less pollution, driving assistances is becoming standard from luxury cars to standard cars, we are transforming from bio-fuel to electronic or Hydrogen powered car.

There are lots of innovations or interesting ideas came from Android manufacturers. Apple apparently is largely followers right now.

Apple is no longer the company that brings revolutionary products to the market. It is following all the footstep of large corporations, it is become market follower, rather then trend setter.
 
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ray6712

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2012
296
127
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I see car has plenty of innovation coming out. For example, engine performance is better, you have a 4 cylinders engine that out perform 6 cylinders engine from 10 years ago. Yes also have more cleaner engine, which produce less pollution, driving assistances is becoming standard from luxury cars to standard cars, we are transforming from bio-fuel to electronic or Hydrogen powered car.

There are lots of innovations or interesting ideas came from Android manufacturers. Apple apparently is largely followers right now.

Apple is no longer the company that brings revolutionary products to the market. It is following all the footstep of large corporations, it is become market follower, rather then trend setter.

Really what products are they following then? What revolutionary products are being produced now that Apple isn’t?
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,381
31,621
I love how people create a straw man so they can knock it down. The only trend Apple ever set were the white ear buds with iPods.
 

Knowimagination

macrumors 68020
Apr 6, 2010
2,201
1,248
I see car has plenty of innovation coming out. For example, engine performance is better, you have a 4 cylinders engine that out perform 6 cylinders engine from 10 years ago. Yes also have more cleaner engine, which produce less pollution, driving assistances is becoming standard from luxury cars to standard cars, we are transforming from bio-fuel to electronic or Hydrogen powered car.

There are lots of innovations or interesting ideas came from Android manufacturers. Apple apparently is largely followers right now.

Apple is no longer the company that brings revolutionary products to the market. It is following all the footstep of large corporations, it is become market follower, rather then trend setter.
Do you not see the irony in talking about innovation in engine performance but then not giving credit to Apple for the amazing work they are doing in chip performance? Nothing is even close to them right now and this year they managed to increase speed but more importantly do it in a way that provides nearly 30% increase in battery life.

How is that not innovation according to your standard?
[doublepost=1568291958][/doublepost]
I love how people create a straw man so they can knock it down. The only trend Apple ever set were the white ear buds with iPods.

And you know.... the whole all touch screen smart phone thing...
 

ray6712

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2012
296
127
StL
No Android phone makers add features and call it innovation and people buy it because hating Apple is the trend to follow!
 

xxray

macrumors 68040
Jul 27, 2013
3,078
9,316
I see car has plenty of innovation coming out. For example, engine performance is better, you have a 4 cylinders engine that out perform 6 cylinders engine from 10 years ago. Yes also have more cleaner engine, which produce less pollution, driving assistances is becoming standard from luxury cars to standard cars, we are transforming from bio-fuel to electronic or Hydrogen powered car.

There are lots of innovations or interesting ideas came from Android manufacturers. Apple apparently is largely followers right now.

Apple is no longer the company that brings revolutionary products to the market. It is following all the footstep of large corporations, it is become market follower, rather then trend setter.

You don't see those innovations coming each year in cars from the same brand. Brands usually do one major generation change every 4-6 years for a car, which has those upgrades you're talking about. Those years in between the generations, cars are kept relatively the same, maybe with minor changes.

Apple has always had a mantra of not being the first, but being the one to implement the features in the most seamless, easy to use, delightful, useful way to the user. The way they make their phones faster and more efficient each year is very innovative, which is why Android can't catch up. Android still also has yet to compete when it comes to FaceID or AirPods.

If you're looking for big, flashy features year over year, go to Android. But if you're willing to wait longer and most likely have a smoother, more refined implementation, stay with Apple.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,381
31,621
And you know.... the whole all touch screen smart phone thing...
True. But the first iPhone was missing things other phones already had. This notion that Apple was always leading the pack and now they’re not is nonsense. People create that straw man so they can knock it down.
 
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