Apple Mail Trash "On my Mac" vs ISP Folder

[Matte2]

All of my incoming and outgoing mail can be viewed on Apple Mail as well as on my ISP's website under their e-mail mailbox section. I use Apple Mail instead of my ISP's e-mail mailbox section on their website because it is more convenient instead of having to have another browser window open and logging-in regularly.

Under the "Trash" section, there is an icon for "On my Mac" and another for the name of my ISP, where I mainly delete e-mails to and it also shows up on my ISP's website e-mail section in their trash folder to. My question is for sensitive e-mails that contain personal financial information, is it more prudent to delete those e-mails to the "On my Mac' folder or the trash folder of my ISP? Which has a lesser chance of being recovered by unscrupulous people in the future?

 

[Bigwaff]

Which has a lesser chance of being recovered by unscrupulous people in the future?

Two completely different storage and access methods. Deleted messages placed in Trash "On My Mac", are stored on your Mac. Deleted messages placed in ISP Trash folder are stored on ISP server. Based on your description, I'm assuming you are using IMAP protocol to connect to ISP email. With IMAP, messages are are stored on ISP server and Mail connects w/ ISP server to keep mailboxes in sync. Delete message in Mail, message moves to Trash on ISP server. Delete message on ISP server, message moves to Trash in Mail. You should delete messages in Trash folder. The "On My Mac" is local storage for email messages, separate from ISP account displayed in Mail. If you are moving messages the Trash folder "On my Mac" then you are removing the messages from the ISP server and copy is made on your Mac. Again, delete messages in Trash "On My Mac".

If someone hacks your Mac account and opens Mail, they'll see the same messages if they were to hack your ISP web site and look at e-mail section.

 

[gilby101]

Which has a lesser chance of being recovered by unscrupulous people in the future?

A question based on actions by "unscrupulous people" is very nebulous. It helps to specify the attacker and attack vectors you are concerned about. Is it friends and family who have access to your computer which has weak (or known) password - make no difference. Is it staff of the email provider - On My Mac trash would safer in some scenarios. Is it your ISP watching your network traffic or a nation state agency - makes little difference.

If you are regularly receiving sensitive emails, you should be considering encryption for those emails. Or use a mail provider (e.g. Proton) which end to end encrypts all email. Not that makes any difference if your attack is coming from someone with access to your computer.

 

[Matte2]

Bigwaff: Yes, I am using an IMAP protocol to connect to ISP e-mail. Beginner question, but once an e-mail is moved from the "Inbox" to the trash folder "On My Mac" and then subsequently deleted in that folder by pressing the delete key, is that e-mail gone from a file on my computer's hard disk drive, or is there a file on my desktop somewhere that still has the contents of the e-mail that I would need to place in the trash bin icon on the desktop?

gilby101: I am concerned about both a burglar and the security/privacy of my ISP's e-mail system. If an identity thief minded burglar were to steal my computer and recover files I have placed in the trash, how easy or difficult would it be for the burglar to recover e-mails with attachments that have been deleted from the "On my Mac" folder or just .pdf files with personal financial information on them and that have been placed in and emptied from the trash bin icon on the desktop? Likewise, if I were to move everything to the trash folder icon in Apple Mail that has the name of my ISP, once those e-mails are deleted, I assume they are deleted from my Mac and they also do not appear on the ISP's e-mail section of their website. My question is what really happens to ISP website deleted e-mails? Do they truly disappear or are they stored in a way where a hacker could access them in a data breach? I don't regularly receive sensitive e-mails but every so often I do share my personal financial information via .pdf documents with financial professionals.

What method of deletion would you all choose?

 

[Bigwaff]

What method of deletion would you all choose?

I'm really not sure what you are trying to accomplish. If your concern is related to emails within the Mail app, empty the Trash mailbox. Right click on the Trash mailbox and select "Erase Deleted Items...". There are no email files to drag to the Trash on the Desktop. If you are concerned about someone "hacking" into your email account on your providers web site, the hacker would first need your credentials. Use strong passwords and use a password manager. And if you are truly exchanging highly sensitive information via email... don't... or start using an encrypted email service, as mentioned previously.

 

[Matte2]

I see the "Erase Deleted Items" option when I right click the Trash mailbox. If I were to select that option, where would those e-mails be erased to? Would they go to a file on my desktop or on my ISP's server? If I were to delete the Apple Mail program and only use my ISP's website for e-mail, what happens when I delete an e-mail with a .pdf attachment from my ISP's e-mail trash folder on their website? Where does it end up?

 

[gilby101]

steal my computer and recover files I have placed in the trash

Mitigation for that and similar risks: Encrypt your disk and use a strong password (no auto logon). If Apple ID is fallback login, make sure that is secure (complex password, 2FA, etc.). And, of course, encrypt your backup disks. Related: Use a strong password and 2FA on the mail providers web site.

Widening this further from just email: How do you create your messages? How do you create, store and erase financial information on your computer outside of email.

My question is what really happens to ISP website deleted e-mails? Do they truly disappear or are they stored in a way where a hacker could access them in a data breach?

If I were to delete the Apple Mail program and only use my ISP's website for e-mail, what happens when I delete an e-mail with a .pdf attachment from my ISP's e-mail trash folder on their website? Where does it end up?

That will depend on the email service and the laws of the country where it resides. You need to ask.

I don't regularly receive sensitive e-mails but every so often I do share my personal financial information via .pdf documents with financial professionals.

Assess your risk including that from exposure via the financial professional. What is their security like? Do they keep all electronic data (securely) encrypted? Are their filing cabinets locked? I would think that they would be a much more tempting target than you for an attacker.

Coming back to the email component of your risk profile, and as we have both said:

And if you are truly exchanging highly sensitive information via email... don't... or start using an encrypted email service, as mentioned previously.

 

[Matte2]

gilby101: I create messages using Apple Mail via IMAP. Those sent messages are also stored on my ISP's website e-mail section. I scan .pdf documents of financial documents, keep them on my desktop and then when they are not needed anymore, drag them to the trash bin icon and empty the trash.

My ISP is based in the United States. The financial professional's electronic data is encrypted.

I agree that I should be encrypting e-mails with my personal financial information on them, but the I can't change the past. Is the best course of action on Apple Mail to place e-mails in the trash mailbox "On my Mac" or in the trash mailbox named for my ISP? If I were to move an e-mail to the "On my Mac" trash mailbox and then delete the contents of that mailbox, where on my computer would those e-mails end up? Is there some file on the desktop they get stored to?

Thank you.

 

[Bigwaff]

I agree that I should be encrypting e-mails with my personal financial information on them, but the I can't change the past. Is the best course of action on Apple Mail to place e-mails in the trash mailbox "On my Mac" or in the trash mailbox named for my ISP? If I were to move an e-mail to the "On my Mac" trash mailbox and then delete the contents of that mailbox, where on my computer would those e-mails end up? Is there some file on the desktop they get stored to?

You keep going around in circles. Just delete the messages and empty/erase the Trash/Deleted Items/Deleted Messages mailbox/folder.. whatever it is called in whatever email client/app/website you are using... and the messages will be gone. That's it. Nothing more to do.

 

[Matte2]

You keep going around in circles. Just delete the messages and empty/erase the Trash/Deleted Items/Deleted Messages mailbox/folder.. whatever it is called in whatever email client/app/website you are using... and the messages will be gone. That's it. Nothing more to do.

Respectfully, I am not going around in circles. Why are there two subfolders under the Trash mailbox then? If I right click on "Erase Deleted Items", where do those e-mails end up?