Apple needs to be broken up

[cheesygrin]

Apple has a de facto monopoly on hardware allowed to run macOS. This is not in the best interest of consumers because it removed competition from this space.

Apple INVENTED macOS. They have the right to choose the hardware it runs well on. If you don't like it, you can choose a different OS. This has always been the case - competition has not been "removed" - it was never there.

 

[rgwebb]

Apple needs to be broken up, probably into hardware, software and services companies.

Notably, I predict more competition around macOS would drive down hardware prices, and charging for macOS, iOS, etc., upgrades and maintenance would slow down hardware churn which would be better for the environment.

This is not going to happen so there is little point in explaining why it won't happen but I just wanted to let you know

 

[Lioness~]

Sorry, I try my best to not be rude, but this thread is a joke. Why are we feeding this?

OP's first post on the forum 😉
Not the best start.
I guess he's broken, and want Apple to be like him.

Apple have several different departments, no reason to tear apart a successful company.

 

[chrono1081]

Because more competition around Apple's operating systems would benefit consumers.

This is the typical nonsense reply that has no meaning behind it, people just say it because they don't think deeper about the problem.

There's already plenty of competition around Apple operating systems, Apple doesn't hold the largest market share. Apple is unique in that it's hardware and software are developed by the same company which leads to some great things is what people like and why they buy Apple products. This shouldn't be "broken up" just because you feel like it should or because you falsely think it somehow benefits consumers.

The whole "more competition is good" phrase is so overused. Can it be good? Yes. Can it be bad? Also yes. Look at the streaming space where you have to pay the same price for streaming services you did for cable because of the ridiculous amount of fragmentation.

 

[rdiiorio]

Apple needs to be broken up, probably into hardware, software and services companies.

Notably, I predict more competition around macOS would drive down hardware prices, and charging for macOS, iOS, etc., upgrades and maintenance would slow down hardware churn which would be better for the environment.

That stupid idea was tried years ago when Gil Dimelio and John Scully tried to run Apple and they failed miserably. Only uninformed ignorant people think breaking up what already is shown to be working well is the solution to peoples problems.

 

[redpandadev]

Mac Mini 12 year old design, iPhone SE 8 years, and Mac Studio was just… boring?

Did it ever strike you that the Mac mini design is intentionally not updated for 12 years? The single most common use of Mac mini is in installations that are literally built around it's form factor - rack mounted in server racks, mounted to walls or desks, mounted behind TVs/Displays, embedded in various custom enclosures, etc. Having a new model use the same form factor is literally a critical feature for these types of setups. If the form factor were to change, many installations would be cost prohibited to upgrade - not because of the cost of the Mac mini, but because of the cost of retrofitting or completely redesigning their existing deployments.

iPhone SE is a niche phone for a niche market and it suits that market incredibly well. By retaining the same form factor but upgrading the internal hardware, they are saving vast R&D costs, materials costs, and even manufacturing / machining costs. This is a win-win for everyone involved.

Mac Studio - boring? The hardware is unmatched and unexpected. The design is very minimal and pleasing. It's designed perfectly for the intended audience.

Can you give an example of what you would suggest or expect? I think the 3 products you called out are 3 of the products Apple sells that have the narrowest audience. Consequently, I actually feel like these 3 are among the absolute BEST designed products for their design goals.

 

[iAppleOrchard]

Don't agree.

 

[mansplains]

Yep. New account.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/can-we-raise-the-post-count-to-start-new-threads.2370023/

Well OP has been lurking since March 8 so not exactly new, but next to zero posts so I do agree!

 

[fwmireault]

Because more competition around Apple's operating systems would benefit consumers.

You see, I think there are some legit reasons why Apple should be split. Operating systems is definitely not one of them. Apple developed all these operating systems from the ground up, and they are the one who should decide if they license it or not to other devices. I don’t feel like consumers would benefit in any way from that, as Apple will have to support a lot more of hardware specifications, which could result in fewer new features or just a generally less smoother and efficient OS. This is definitely what makes Apple’s software so great, and the benefit of licensing macOS to PC (for example) is not clear in my mind.

I think that if Apple had to be split up one day, it would definitely be a separation of services from the rest of the company, not software and hardware that must be kept together. I could see why Apple Music or the App Store should be separated to ensure fair competition with other developers and similar services. I’m not saying I agree with this, but there are more reasons to do that for Apple services than for operating systems

 

[theluggage]

I could see why Apple Music or the App Store should be separated to ensure fair competition with other developers and similar services.

I've never used Apple Music/iTunes - on Mac, iPod, iPad or Apple TV - to play anything other than music I've bought from Amazon, Play.com, Bandcamp etc. or ripped from physical CDs. My Mac, iPad and AppleTV play Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney, Spotify, Amazon Music etc. and even the AppleTV has apps like VLC, MrMc, Plex, Jellyfin etc. to play your own media.

I don't see the problem other than certain games companies who want to benefit from the Apple store's high profile to distribute their "free to play" razors without Apple getting a cut from sales of their expensive in-app-purchase blades.

 

[mectojic]

iPhone SE is a niche phone for a niche market and it suits that market incredibly well. By retaining the same form factor but upgrading the internal hardware, they are saving vast R&D costs, materials costs, and even manufacturing / machining costs. This is a win-win for everyone involved.

Praising Apple for saving money on R&D is probably the weirdest comment I've ever seen on Macrumors... did you forget they're a multi-trillion dollar company? Hmm...

 

[NervousFish2]

Apple needs to be broken up, probably into hardware, software and services companies.

Notably, I predict more competition around macOS would drive down hardware prices, and charging for macOS, iOS, etc., upgrades and maintenance would slow down hardware churn which would be better for the environment.

I think a lot of these huge tech companies are too big. Top heavy, and can't innovate anymore. Most of their IP is still downstream from original tech they ripped off from the military a long, long time ago. The smartphone is basically stuck. Tablets are stuck. Batteries are stuck. Occasionally you get a bit of a leap, in the microprocessor area of things. But the Kurzweil's continuum feels a long way off!

That said, increasing competition won't be a big kickstarter either. To get out of the derivative cycle, we need to look at how medical innovation takes place. The Pharma companies just sit on their IP. They don't innovate. The real innovation takes place in publicly funded universities. We ned to realize the same thing is more or less true for tech. Innovation takes public money. Libertarians won't like to hear that, but facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[russell_314]

This point has been argued ad nauseum. Not just in the Mac community, but in the business/financial community as well.

While Apple has total control of both Mac OS hardware and software, it does not constitute a market. There is no actionable market for Mac OS. The market is PC operating systems and Mac OS does not constitute anything close to a controlling share of the market. Therefore, anything that Apple does, doesn't violate an abuse of a monopoly powers.

An analogy (not perfect) would be that you can only get Big Macs at McDonalds restaurants. McDonalds has 100% control over Big Macs sold around world. However, there really isn't a Big Mac market. The market is fast-food hamburgers and there are plenty of alternatives, but none of them are Big Macs. Would there be more competition if Burger King franchisees were allowed to sell Big Macs? Sure. It would drive competition and be beneficial to Big Mac customers if they could go to a Chick Fil A to buy their Big Macs.

Mac OS is a niche OS. Apple can offer or not offer it to other hardware vendors. Apple chooses not to.

Anyway, you have to be careful in defining a narrow market. If a market is defined too narrowly, there could never be any exclusives.

I think we need to stop McDonald’s monopoly on Big Macs. Big fast food has controlled the market for way too long. McDonald’s definitely needs to be broken up into separate burger and french fries divisions…

Seriously though I’m not against anyone having an opinion but people creating disposable accounts just to say something crazy isn’t a good thing for the forums. The problem is I don’t know if there’s a way to prevent it. It’s not like someone couldn’t just make a second account and use that for their crazy posts.

 

[Kiteskip]

Apple needs to be broken up, probably into hardware, software and services companies.

Notably, I predict more competition around macOS would drive down hardware prices, and charging for macOS, iOS, etc., upgrades and maintenance would slow down hardware churn which would be better for the environment.

How much did you spend on your iOS 16 upgrade? How about the Ventura, surely you forked out a load of cash for that, yeah? No? You didn’t spend a dime upgrading Apple’s signature products? That’s because Apple’s primary product is its software and it gives that away freely… to users who’ve purchased their hardware. There’s quite simply nothing to ‘break up’ here. Apple pays for its software development by selling gorgeously crafted circuits. The iPhone itself is just hardware, iOS is where the magic happens.

 

[mectojic]

I think we need to stop McDonald’s monopoly on Big Macs. Big fast food has controlled the market for way too long. McDonald’s definitely needs to be broken up into separate burger and french fries divisions…

Seriously though I’m not against anyone having an opinion but people creating disposable accounts just to say something crazy isn’t a good thing for the forums. The problem is I don’t know if there’s a way to prevent it. It’s not like someone couldn’t just make a second account and use that for their crazy posts.

Disagree.
While threads like these make long-time forum users groan, they are a great way to educate people who otherwise would've just held a belief and shared it with their clueless friends. At least there are people here who can rebut bold assertions, and offer facts.

 

[russell_314]

Disagree.
While threads like these make long-time forum users groan, they are a great way to educate people who otherwise would've just held a belief and shared it with their clueless friends. At least there are people here who can rebut bold assertions, and offer facts.

You have a point. Someone might be embarrassed to say something because they think it might be dumb and it probably is but at least they can share it and others can chime in. I’ll admit it’s entertaining 😂

 

[progx]

Because more competition around Apple's operating systems would benefit consumers.

They tried the Mac clones. Steve Jobs came back and axed the program. Quality was a problem with the Mac clone makers, some were really good and others just downright awful. Sales were still abysmal since it was no-name hardware manufacturers and the PowerPC environment still didn't drive down hardware costs either. It created more confusion, Apple was littered with multiple models of Mac and the clones didn't help clear it up and probably help drive more people to Windows95 and Windows98.

If they "broke up" Apple, it wouldn't be into multiple hardware and software vendors. You'd have the Mac, then iPhone/iPad/Apple TV in another. Apple isn't stifling anyone but themselves since it's their own environment they've created.

 

[4389842]

Because more competition around Apple's operating systems would benefit consumers.

Yes, because the state of Android, with the deluge of sub-par and cheap devices is sooo much better

 

[droidgod]

Whatever OP said is plain silly. How will splitting up Apple help with improving competition?

You can install Windows & Linux on a Mac today.
How would splitting up Apple hardware and software increase competition here?
The OS which would go to the software part of the split can still exclusively control where they allow their OS to be installed.

Apple also does not sell iOS or MacOS (anymore).

Apple are a hardware company where you get software on the side at the moment.

 

[Kuckuckstein]

Apple needs to be broken up, probably into hardware, software and services companies.

Notably, I predict more competition around macOS would drive down hardware prices, and charging for macOS, iOS, etc., upgrades and maintenance would slow down hardware churn which would be better for the environment.

Haha - nope. It is the secret to their success that things come from a single source. There definitely is a monopoly situation here and recently they haven’t been as sparkling and smooth as many wish, but they do much better and have a stable position because of their walled garden.

Just look at Twitter, Facebook, Netflix or pure hardware companies. They struggle right now. And look at Tesla - while far from perfect, they too did benefit from delivering hardware, software and the service. It is not customer friendly if you want to be free. But enough customers prefer smooth over free … and pay a ton for it. And Apple is happy.

Don’t get me wrong. I prefer free over walled garden and there is a lot of stuff where Apple things just don’t work for me. But I do know that business wise they would be foolish to break things in pieces.

 

[1885507]

So, this is what Elon Musk does with his time.... trolling on MR. We see you! 😉

 

[Tagbert]

Did it ever strike you that the Mac mini design is intentionally not updated for 12 years? The single most common use of Mac mini is in installations that are literally built around it's form factor - rack mounted in server racks, mounted to walls or desks, mounted behind TVs/Displays, embedded in various custom enclosures, etc. Having a new model use the same form factor is literally a critical feature for these types of setups. If the form factor were to change, many installations would be cost prohibited to upgrade - not because of the cost of the Mac mini, but because of the cost of retrofitting or completely redesigning their existing deployments.

iPhone SE is a niche phone for a niche market and it suits that market incredibly well. By retaining the same form factor but upgrading the internal hardware, they are saving vast R&D costs, materials costs, and even manufacturing / machining costs. This is a win-win for everyone involved.

Mac Studio - boring? The hardware is unmatched and unexpected. The design is very minimal and pleasing. It's designed perfectly for the intended audience.

Can you give an example of what you would suggest or expect? I think the 3 products you called out are 3 of the products Apple sells that have the narrowest audience. Consequently, I actually feel like these 3 are among the absolute BEST designed products for their design goals.

Perhaps the OP is looking for a new design for the Mini like this...?

(BTW that is the "Cougar Conquer 2 All New Ultimate Gaming Full Tower Case with Exclusive Detachable Sub-Chassis Design" 😂)

 

[millerj123]

Perhaps the OP is looking for a new design for the Mini like this...?

(BTW that is the "Cougar Conquer 2 All New Ultimate Gaming Full Tower Case with Exclusive Detachable Sub-Chassis Design" 😂)

That is a thing of beauty. How do you get it to transform into your mech-warrior suit?

 

[orionquest]

Yep. New account.

Ding ding ding... youtuber poster testing the waters for user engagement.....

 

[Klae17]

this will kill innovation. If every company can have access to your IP or design, there is no motivation to make newer and better products and services.