Apple not the only one down…

[Warped9]

A lot has been made on these pages about Apple being down 40 percent recently and touting it as a sign Apple has lost its way, doesn’t know what its doing, has disappointing products and is generally in trouble. But it’s all touted out of context.

The entire tech market is down. Samsung, often seen as Apple’s biggest rival, is down 95 percent in profits.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/26/tech/south-korea-samsung-q1-profits-plunge-intl-hnk/index.html

…but largely nothing but crickets heard around here.

Working in retail we can see people more hesitant to spend money on tech. Yes, we see Apple selling less than before, but everything else tech is selling less than before. People in general are presently wary of the economy and their financial security.

People are pointing to M2 being a disappointment compared to M1. There might be a bit of that given M1 was such a game changer and M2 a moderate upgrade, but Apple has often introduced devices with moderate upgrades that still sold well. Hell, the entire tech industry does that. Drastic upgrades and change are rare, not the norm.

The “Apple has gone bad” argument is so much nonsense.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Components prices have increased, inflation is high and costs of highend consumer devices have increased far beyond this again.

People are being smart and keeping their current devices longer due to monthly energy bills being half the cost of an iPhone. The industry seems blind to the financial problems people are facing right now and I keep seeing discussions where individuals are astonished consumers aren't spending their money like they were 3 years ago.

It is great to see companies like Samsung and Apple reporting losses and long may it continue until products come down to reasonable levels.

 

[Smellmet]

The prices of flagship phones are simply ridiculous now. They are the price of a good laptop that you would potentially keep for the best part of a decade for a device that will only last 3 years or so.

 

[HouseLannister]

I’m doing my part. Dropped $800 on an S23, $4k on a new gaming PC, and waiting on OLED iPads. Give me all the things!

 

[Warped9]

The prices of flagship phones are simply ridiculous now. They are the price of a good laptop that you would potentially keep for the best part of a decade for a device that will only last 3 years or so.

Well, my iPhone 8+ mightn’t be considered a flagship phone (depending on your perspective), but it’s lasted me five years and still going strong. But your essentially point is valid. Upper tier phones have gotten ridiculously priced. Mainstream phones have become more than sufficiently capable for most people’s needs. Beyond that it becomes a matter of status and cache.

 

[Bodhitree]

The prices of foldable phones are crazy, and even the prices of flagship phones are getting beyond whats reasonable. I can just about part with 1000 euros if the phone will last six years, but thats already a lot. A MacBook Air used to cost the same, and that lasts me ten years. No way that I’m going to pay 1700 euros for a phone.

I can totally foresee a case in the future where I end up switching to a Samsung A-series phone to get a phone with a decent camera and avoid paying 1300+ euros for an iPhone Pro. It all depends on how long that Samsung is going to get supported.

 

[Realityck]

Components prices have increased, inflation is high and costs of highend consumer devices have increased far beyond this again.

People are being smart and keeping their current devices longer due to monthly energy bills being half the cost of an iPhone. The industry seems blind to the financial problems people are facing right now and I keep seeing discussions where individuals are astonished consumers aren't spending their money like they were 3 years ago.

It is great to see companies like Samsung and Apple reporting losses and long may it continue until products come down to reasonable levels.

Nothing has really changed overnight for consumers though. If you need to know how aftermath of the china zero lockdowns ending mid Dec 2022 and still effecting for several weeks afterwards has really effected Apple device production and sales of various segments of Apple financials we are in luck that is after the bell on May 4th.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

A lot has been made on these pages about Apple being down 40 percent recently and touting it as a sign Apple has lost its way, doesn’t know what its doing, has disappointing products and is generally in trouble. But it’s all touted out of context.

The entire tech market is down. Samsung, often seen as Apple’s biggest rival, is down 95 percent in profits.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/26/tech/south-korea-samsung-q1-profits-plunge-intl-hnk/index.html

…but largely nothing but crickets heard around here.

Working in retail we can see people more hesitant to spend money on tech. Yes, we see Apple selling less than before, but everything else tech is selling less than before. People in general are presently wary of the economy and their financial security.

People are pointing to M2 being a disappointment compared to M1. There might be a bit of that given M1 was such a game changer and M2 a moderate upgrade, but Apple has often introduced devices with moderate upgrades that still sold well. Hell, the entire tech industry does that. Drastic upgrades and change are rare, not the norm.

The “Apple has gone bad” argument is so much nonsense.

well i think apple is folowing a "Tik" "Tok" path kinds like intel. Tik is Huge Release and Tok being a Update and Improvement. kinda like Sandy and Ivy Bridge

 

[Warped9]

Drastic or significant upgrades are not regular occurances. They happen only periodically. The rest of the time it will be tweaking and moderate upgrades. Thats true in every field.

 

[Realityck]

A lot has been made on these pages about Apple being down 40 percent recently and touting it as a sign Apple has lost its way, doesn’t know what its doing, has disappointing products and is generally in trouble. But it’s all touted out of context.

During Covid 19 (March 2020 thru Dec 2022) we did see a lot of product categories the were very reasonable priced get heavily impacted and see price increases because of consumer demand. Anything to do with entertainment outside TV sales saw lots of companies really struggle with survival. Yes a lot of that was made in China for companies based outside China. If there was excessive greed and manipulation of pricing for cars because they were also hard to acquire and used car prices skyrocketed this all gos back to how the worlds supply of technology parts affects everyones daily lives. Is this associated with the success of various tech companies, absolutely right now. We are seeing how some companies monitored tightly and managed sales throughout this, the comparison of Apple vs Samsung will be a topic for a bit. But these two are very different so you can’t directly compare either except to say oh look their sales are lowered comparably. It just takes time. Don’t panic, live how you normally do without thinking of the marketplace and lack of new technology models arriving as fast as before. New products are coming still, just got to be patient!

 

[Smellmet]

Well, my iPhone 8+ mightn’t be considered a flagship phone (depending on your perspective), but it’s lasted me five years and still going strong. But your essentially point is valid. Upper tier phones have gotten ridiculously priced. Mainstream phones have become more than sufficiently capable for most people’s needs. Beyond that it becomes a matter of status and cache.

I would say it was a flagship at the time, what iPhone was above it in the range when it was new? You've done well to get 5 years out of it, what's the battery like at that age?

 

[Smellmet]

The prices of foldable phones are crazy, and even the prices of flagship phones are getting beyond whats reasonable. I can just about part with 1000 euros if the phone will last six years, but thats already a lot. A MacBook Air used to cost the same, and that lasts me ten years. No way that I’m going to pay 1700 euros for a phone.

I can totally foresee a case in the future where I end up switching to a Samsung A-series phone to get a phone with a decent camera and avoid paying 1300+ euros for an iPhone Pro. It all depends on how long that Samsung is going to get supported.

Already gone to the A series and never looked back. Just bought the new A34 which is streets ahead of the A71 it replaced which was streets ahead of the S7 edge that that replaced. This A34 feels like a near flagship device to me. The only compromises are wireless charging, top level camera with telephoto (the camera is still excellent and better than the previous aforementioned phones) and that's about it really. The performance is great, the display is top drawer too. All for £1000 LESS than my workmates iPhone. Crazy.

 

[orionquest]

People bought enough crap during pandemic for WFM or remote schooling, it wasn't that long ago, nothing has to be replaced yet. Also spending priorities are on other items while we all deal with price gouging inflation.

Either way Apple is doomed!

 

[Ethosik]

Agreed. People forget the Intel days. Was it a major increase going from one MacBook Pro or iMac one year to another? No, the upgrade was mostly incremental at that time too. I don’t know why this suddenly means the M2 and Apple Silicon is a failure.

 

[GMShadow]

It is great to see companies like Samsung and Apple reporting losses and long may it continue until products come down to reasonable levels.

Apple is not reporting losses. A few analysts have claimed shipments have slowed. Free reports from analysts are worth precisely what you paid for them.

I would say it was a flagship at the time, what iPhone was above it in the range when it was new?

The iPhone X. The 8+ was never a flagship.

 

[kpluck]

Yes, the entire tech market is down. However, Apple's Mac sales are down 40% but it seems most other computer OEMs were down 30%, or less. So yes, Apple does seem to have taken a bigger hit than the rest of the market in regards to computer sales.

Samsung's semi conductor business had that profit dive. Semi conductor profits vs Apple computer sales doesn't seem like a valid comparison. In one case you are talking about profits and the other about units sold.

The comparison doesn't even work from the standpoint of trying to illustrate that the tech industry is down as a whole (although it most certainly is). All sorts of accounting shenanigans could account for a reduction in profits.

-kp

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Nothing has really changed overnight for consumers though. If you need to know how aftermath of the china zero lockdowns ending mid Dec 2022 and still effecting for several weeks afterwards has really effected Apple device production and sales of various segments of Apple financials we are in luck that is after the bell on May 4th.

It changed overnight when the 14 Pro’s were released. They both had a £150 price hike over the previous Pro’s and this has not gone unnoticed by consumers in Europe. I can’t see America avoiding the same increases this year and maybe this will also impact sales.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Apple is not reporting losses. A few analysts have claimed shipments have slowed. Free reports from analysts are worth precisely what you paid for them.

Not financial losses no, the gap was filled via price hikes in Europe and Asia. Apple clearly knew sales were going to slow so put prices up to cover any potential losses.

 

[Bodhitree]

Already gone to the A series and never looked back. Just bought the new A34 which is streets ahead of the A71 it replaced which was streets ahead of the S7 edge that that replaced. This A34 feels like a near flagship device to me. The only compromises are wireless charging, top level camera with telephoto (the camera is still excellent and better than the previous aforementioned phones) and that's about it really. The performance is great, the display is top drawer too. All for £1000 LESS than my workmates iPhone. Crazy.

Yeah the only thing is… Keychain, Notes, iCloud, a few other things. I would miss the great integration with my iMac and iPad.

 

[GMShadow]

Not financial losses no, the gap was filled via price hikes in Europe and Asia. Apple clearly knew sales were going to slow so put prices up to cover any potential losses.

Yeah, adjusting prices for currency changes totally made billions upon billions.

Please do some math first next time.

 

[Warped9]

You've done well to get 5 years out of it, what's the battery like at that age?

85%.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Yeah the only thing is… Keychain, Notes, iCloud, a few other things. I would miss the great integration with my iMac and iPad.

Yes I am all in on Apple,ipad, Mac, Apple watch, Apple TV, AirTags, Airpods and use all the services so I couldn’t switch. I will just keep my current iphone for longer.

 

[bobthebuilderissus]

85%.

my first gen SE is at 89% somehow..... and i've never replaced the batt...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah, adjusting prices for currency changes totally made billions upon billions.

Please do some math first next time.

No need.

 

[Technerd108]

A lot has been made on these pages about Apple being down 40 percent recently and touting it as a sign Apple has lost its way, doesn’t know what its doing, has disappointing products and is generally in trouble. But it’s all touted out of context.

The entire tech market is down. Samsung, often seen as Apple’s biggest rival, is down 95 percent in profits.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/26/tech/south-korea-samsung-q1-profits-plunge-intl-hnk/index.html

…but largely nothing but crickets heard around here.

Working in retail we can see people more hesitant to spend money on tech. Yes, we see Apple selling less than before, but everything else tech is selling less than before. People in general are presently wary of the economy and their financial security.

People are pointing to M2 being a disappointment compared to M1. There might be a bit of that given M1 was such a game changer and M2 a moderate upgrade, but Apple has often introduced devices with moderate upgrades that still sold well. Hell, the entire tech industry does that. Drastic upgrades and change are rare, not the norm.

The “Apple has gone bad” argument is so much nonsense.

Samsung doesn't just produce phones and computers but the big drop for them is not on the s23 series for example but their semiconductor business.

They produce and chips, ram, ssds, and processors and that is a big part of their business. These product segments have dropped with the economy.

This is a completely different situation than Apple. You can claim that Apple is perfect but the reality is Apple has dropped the ball with software stability and hardware features while costing a premium price.

When you pay a lot people demand more.

I can easily give some examples. iOS 16 was a buggy mess when it dropped and there are several issues yet to be resolved.

iPhones are copying Android features that have existed on Android phones for years instead of designing unique industry leading features they did in the past. The pill hole punch cut out is a terrible design and copies in a bad way the hole punch cutout that has existed on numerous Android phones for years as just one example.

Take a look at the iPhone 14 series. It is a mess. It used to be no matter what iPhone you bought you got the latest and greatest features and the only big difference was the screen size.

Not so anymore. The iPhone 14 is almost exactly the same as the iPhone 13 with the same chip! The iPhone 14 max is $100 less than the Pro but it doesn't have the same camera system, it has a year old chip, it doesn't have Pro Motion or the ugly pill hole cut out that is supposedly cool. So you pay almost the same and all you get is a bigger screen. Who would buy that? Then if you actually want a decent phone you have to shell out $1k or more and you still don't even get a decent telephoto lens or real fast charging.

The Mac's are all pretty good but the market for buying computers as a whole has dramatically shifted since COVID and lock downs, the economy has dramatically shifted and a lot of people just don't have extra money like they used to do buying a new Mac or iphone or iPad is a lot harder specially at the price points Apple is selling.

Taken as a whole. Lack of true hardware and software innovation, a lack of stability on iOS, a lack of pro features on Pro iPads, and cost is all a recipe for disaster.

Also in terms of privacy and advertising Apple almost introduced a back door into all of their OS with CSAM scanning which is a huge violation of trust, trying to put more ads and services is also a problem.

Maybe Apple hasn't lost their way but they have certainly gone in some wrong directions and dropped the ball. They are not innovating but following. They have segmented to death every product line they have with all the Pro BS instead of just delivering the best in each product category it seems they try to squeeze out as much profit as possible and hold back as many features on purpose for no other reason than to get people to buy up.

All of this starts to piss people off. Jobs is turning in his grave.

I personally would love to see the end of "Pro" phones and tablets. It is ridiculous. Return to offering a simple product line with the best of everything and just charge for the larger size. Get rid of the "air" on MacBook and just have a MacBook and a MacBook Pro. Stop holding back features like Promotion just to push people into a higher cost bracket.

I could go on and on.

There are many reasons for Apples poor sales performance but I think a lot more of it is self inflicted rather than just the economic market factors. More people are going to get fed up if they don't change some of the things I mentioned.

There will always be the die hard Apple fanatics who will empty their pockets gleefully but the rest of us will only take so much.