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mozumder

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,297
4,430
Sorry, I really need this explained. Exploited in what way, and more importantly, WHEN and WHERE? How does this help white people now? The claim is far-fetched, especially when you consider white immigrants whose families had absolutely nothing to do with any of this and who may have been oppressed in their foreign countries.

Also, Asians...

Slavery. In the US, slavery was legal until about 150 years ago. Crazy huh?

Blacks received nothing for their slavery.

Also, because races tend to support each other, wealthy whites were able to support the middle-class in order to oppress the blacks.
 

AlecZ

macrumors 65816
Sep 11, 2014
1,173
123
Berkeley, CA
The biggest fears surrounding AA are some people believing that it puts them at a disadvantage. Barring some occasional flubs where it might be applied wrongly, this is far from being the case.

Depends what kind of Affirmative Action you're talking about. Yes, programs that help certain racial groups more won't hurt anyone (though it is still unfair), but universities that take more people based on race to fill quotas end up having to reject more people who would have otherwise made it in based on merit.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
You benefited by being white. That already opens jobs and opportunities to you that blacks do not have. Plenty of studies already point out the economic racism of society.

Remember, people do not have an equal shot in America. The wealthy gain an upper hand, because their wealth opens opportunities and advantages to them that poorer people do not have.

That is because people give money to rich people, since they have an affinity towards wealthy people. They feel wealthy people are "better" than the poor.

We need to make sure that everyone in America get an equal opportunity. White's have such a tremendous advantage over blacks, because whites punishing blacks for hundreds of years.

Also, the most powerful woman in America is white.

Wrong. 80% of millionaires are first generation wealthy. Most come from public schools, and most started their own business.

I'm assuming you're talking about Hillary Clinton. We'll have to agree to disagree as I think power comes from influence and Oprah is able to influence way more Americans than Hillary on a day-to-day basis. That also bring up the point that I just made. Oprah came from nothing, as well. Handed nothing, worked her ass off.

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Depends what kind of Affirmative Action you're talking about. Yes, programs that help certain racial groups more won't hurt anyone (though it is still unfair), but universities that take more people based on race to fill quotas end up having to reject more people who would have otherwise made it in based on merit.

Actually it could hurt someone. Look at some of the recent lawsuits from regarding fire departments hiring less qualified applicants so they could fill quotas. This could lead directly to someone losing their life.
 

mozumder

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,297
4,430
Wrong. 80% of millionaires are first generation wealthy. Most come from public schools, and most started their own business.

I'm assuming you're talking about Hillary Clinton. We'll have to agree to disagree as I think power comes from influence and Oprah is able to influence way more Americans than Hillary on a day-to-day basis. That also bring up the point that I just made. Oprah came from nothing, as well. Handed nothing, worked her ass off.

I was talking about the Waltons.

Also, millionaires don't develop on their own. They have a support network. Whites support other whites. That is why it's easy for a white to be a millionaire.

Remember, white people hate black people.
 

AlecZ

macrumors 65816
Sep 11, 2014
1,173
123
Berkeley, CA
Slavery. In the US, slavery was legal until about 150 years ago. Crazy huh?

Blacks received nothing for their slavery.

Also, because races tend to support each other, wealthy whites were able to support the middle-class in order to oppress the blacks.

Believe it or not, not every white person in the United States is descended from slave-owners. And the southern states today actually have the lowest income. The Asians make the highest income, and most are likely immigrants or not from well-established American families. According to this list, Indian Americans (yes, brown people) have the highest average.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
It's going by raw demographics. 70-odd percent of college graduates per year are white, with the remainder being, obviously, the minorities. At its best, AA merely seeks to even this out. Not by taking away from white people, but by bolstering the amount of blacks, Hispanics, and (though there's been some contention about this recently) Asians applying and graduating from schools.

The biggest fears surrounding AA are some people believing that it puts them at a disadvantage. Barring some occasional flubs where it might be applied wrongly, this is far from being the case.

77% of the American population is white, so this number makes sense. By your standards, evening it out would actually make it uneven.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
I was talking about the Waltons.

Also, millionaires don't develop on their own. They have a support network. Whites support other whites. That is why it's easy for a white to be a millionaire.

Remember, white people hate black people.

My bad, I didn't realize you were trolling. Carry on! :)

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Believe it or not, not every white person in the United States is descended from slave-owners. And the southern states today actually have the lowest income. The Asians make the highest income, and most are likely immigrants or not from well-established American families.

Thank you. I hate having to point this out. My family came from Irish-German Appalachia decent and my great, great, great grandfather was *gasp*, black! I would love for someone to explain to me how I've benefited from slavery.
 

AlecZ

macrumors 65816
Sep 11, 2014
1,173
123
Berkeley, CA
Thank you. I hate having to point this out. My family came from Irish-German Appalachia decent and my great, great, great grandfather was *gasp*, black! I would love for someone to explain to me how I've benefited from slavery.

Haha, or those Armenians in my family who were stuck in the Ottoman Empire.
 

mozumder

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,297
4,430
Believe it or not, not every white person in the United States is descended from slave-owners. And the southern states today actually have the lowest income. The Asians make the highest income, and most are likely immigrants or not from well-established American families. According to this list, Indian Americans (yes, brown people) have the highest average.

OK. Not all whites are billionaires.

Not sure what your point here is?

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OK, you're blatantly trolling, so bye.

Because whites love blacks, and theres no racism, right?

lol.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
77% of the American population is white, so this number makes sense. By your standards, evening it out would actually make it uneven.

It's more around 67% or so. I got into an argument that involved this recently, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind.

A perfect situation would be an even split along demographic lines in all fields. It'd be something like 67% white, 13% black, 16% Hispanic, 5% Asian or thereabouts. Though expecting or demanding that prefect situation is unfeasible. You'll never get right there on the dot. That said, colleges tend to see more whites and Asians on average, with an even bigger discrepancy when you start getting into specialized fields. I think AA is just trying to draw more of the other demographics into those fields, so I don't really take an exception to it.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
It's more around 67% or so. I got into an argument that involved this recently, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind.

A perfect situation would be an even split along demographic lines in all fields. It'd be something like 67% white, 13% black, 16% Hispanic, 5% Asian or thereabouts. Though expecting or demanding that prefect situation is unfeasible. You'll never get right there on the dot. That said, colleges tend to see more whites and Asians on average, with an even bigger discrepancy when you start getting into specialized fields. I think AA is just trying to draw more of the other demographics into those fields, so I don't really take an exception to it.

From the census bureau, 77%. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

So we actually need to raise the white percentage of college graduates by 7% to make it fair, right? You said it needs to be split even along demographic fields, so I hope that applies to whites as well when they are underperforming.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
From the census bureau, 77%. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

So we actually need to raise the white percentage of college graduates by 7% to make it fair, right? You said it needs to be split even along demographic fields, so I hope that applies to whites as well when they are underperforming.

I was going by the White Alone, Not Hispanic or Latino. I think that's more representative of the white population across the country.

And yeah, if white people start dipping below the 60% mark, something will need to be done to get more people back in. For one thing, it'll mean that college enrollment is way down, and steps will have to be made to correct it.
 

mgguy

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2006
484
1,356
A perfect situation would be an even split along demographic lines in all fields. It'd be something like 67% white, 13% black, 16% Hispanic, 5% Asian or thereabouts.

Why would it necessarily be perfect? If some groups tend to perform better academically than other groups, why wouldn't they have a greater representation among graduates than their percentage of the population? Equality of opportunity may not provide equal outcomes in performance.
 
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Renzatic

Suspended
Why would it necessarily be perfect? If some groups tend to perform better achedemically than other groups, why wouldn't they have a greater representation among graduates than their percentage of the population? Equality of opportunity may not provide equal outcomes in performance.

Because if you assume that everyone is of roughly equal intelligence regardless of race, then each demographic will produce roughly the same amount of college bound kids, which will in turn fall roughly in with demographic lines.

Though with cultural pressures and social mores always present, you're not quite get that. And of course random happenstance will always keep things from aligning perfectly even without the aforementioned influences. What AA is supposed to do is acknowledge that sometimes society puts more undue pressure on certain groups, making it easier for some people to get ahead over others. At its best, AA evens out that cultural playing field, so everyone ends up succeeding by their own merits rather than pure chance, where and to whom they were born.

It doesn't always work out that way, but that's the point of it, and why I ultimately support it.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
Because if you assume that everyone is of roughly equal intelligence regardless of race, then each demographic will produce roughly the same amount of college bound kids, which will in turn fall roughly in with demographic lines.

Though with cultural pressures and social mores always present, you're not quite get that. And of course random happenstance will always keep things from aligning perfectly even without the aforementioned influences. What AA is supposed to do is acknowledge that sometimes society puts more undue pressure on certain groups, making it easier for some people to get ahead over others. At its best, AA evens out that cultural playing field, so everyone ends up succeeding by their own merits rather than pure chance, where and to whom they were born.

It doesn't always work out that way, but that's the point of it, and why I ultimately support it.

Here's something you might want to look at. College enrollees are of equal representation, but those coming out with a bachelor's is not. So it looks as though everyone has an equal opportunity, but some are not taking full advantage.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ling-in-college-but-lag-in-bachelors-degrees/
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Here's something you might want to look at. College enrollees are of equal representation, but those coming out with a bachelor's is not. So it looks as though everyone has an equal opportunity, but some are not taking full advantage.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ling-in-college-but-lag-in-bachelors-degrees/

And the question to that would be "why". I'd think of this as more of a sociological problem, not really related to AA in any way.

AA is there to assure everybody get the chance. Not to hold everyone's hand as they plow on through school.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
And the question to that would be "why". I'd think of this as more of a sociological problem, not really related to AA in any way.

AA is there to assure everybody get the chance. Not to hold everyone's hand as they plow on through school.

I'm not disagreeing with you there. I think there should be a look into the cause of the drop out rate, though. Especially since many of those minorities are getting taxpayer funded scholarships.

I think there is a misconception that rich, white people want minorities to stay uneducated. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Even if you look at it from the perspective that one thinks all rich white people are evil. They would want even more so for minorities and the poor to be educated and successful so they wouldn't have to provide tax money for so many social programs.
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,543
9,710
Boston
I believe in supporting diversity, but only to the extent that it makes sense. Only 13% of the population is black. Blacks typically have a lower rate of college education compared to whites therefore there won't be as many qualified blacks as whites. So if for given job X 50% of whites, 10% of blacks, and 40% of asians are available and qualified, then the job statistics should be close to that. Just like if the reality is ~70% of qualified computer science majors are male, then that's what one should expect to see in a company. But then there are many factors which may cause that deviate- such as the population of the minority within the geographic area of the company.

Ultimately I believe the most qualified person should get the job. I don't believe it is a corporations duty to "fix" society by hiring less qualified individuals because they are minorities. I respect what they're trying to do, but I don't think artificially creating diversity is a fair practice. Education should be the starting point for this.
 
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Tsuchiya

macrumors 68020
Jun 7, 2008
2,310
372
I don't see the issue. Or rather, I see why some would see it as an issue, but that it's not worth the angst I'm seeing in this thread.

The STEM organisations Apple has listed are those which help and encourage individuals from certain demographics (which could do with more representation in the industry) foster an interest in technology and help them be proactive in bettering themselves.

Apple sees this is a good thing so offer this scholarship to members of these organisations who demonstrate aptitude and creativity. In other words, they aren't going to start offering handouts because I'm brown and can figure out how to get "hello world" on my iPhone.

Isn't a common argument in regards to diversity and technology that these demographics need to earn their place in the industry based on talent?
 

noodlemanc

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2010
208
18
Australasia
Oh look, another proud display of every disgusting behavior that makes people worldwide hate white american males.

Well done, internet people.

Are you referring to the article or the comments...?

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Sorry, I really need this explained. Exploited in what way, and more importantly, WHEN and WHERE? How does this help white people now? The claim is far-fetched, especially when you consider white immigrants whose families had absolutely nothing to do with any of this and who may have been oppressed in their foreign countries.

Also, Asians...

Also, Jews... They were VERY oppressed. Why did their prior oppression not keep them down?

----------

I was talking about the Waltons.

Also, millionaires don't develop on their own. They have a support network. Whites support other whites. That is why it's easy for a white to be a millionaire.

Remember, white people hate black people.

Seems like black people hate white people even more these days... With all this talk about how they should "feel the pain" and how it's just so easy to be a millionaire if you're white.

----------

It's going by raw demographics. 70-odd percent of college graduates per year are white, with the remainder being, obviously, the minorities. At its best, AA merely seeks to even this out. Not by taking away from white people, but by bolstering the amount of blacks, Hispanics, and (though there's been some contention about this recently) Asians applying and graduating from schools.

The biggest fears surrounding AA are some people believing that it puts them at a disadvantage. Barring some occasional flubs where it might be applied wrongly, this is far from being the case.

Remember, different races have different average IQs. If a race has a lower average IQ no amount of AA will make them succeed at college exactly the same as another race.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,434
12,250
UK
Are you referring to the article or the comments...?

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Also, Jews... They were VERY oppressed. Why did their prior oppression not keep them down?

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Seems like black people hate white people even more these days... With all this talk about how they should "feel the pain" and how it's just so easy to be a millionaire if you're white.

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Remember, different races have different average IQs. If a race has a lower average IQ no amount of AA will make them succeed at college exactly the same as another race.

Jews were oppressed but they were also moneylenders - and thus rich.

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Wrong. 80% of millionaires are first generation wealthy. Most come from public schools, and most started their own business.

Source? And how many of those come from upper middle class backgrounds.

And let's not forget that thanks to inflation being a millionaire is becoming more common.
 

Saucesome2000

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2014
338
320
Nashville, TN
Jews were oppressed but they were also moneylenders - and thus rich.

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Source? And how many of those come from upper middle class backgrounds.

And let's not forget that thanks to inflation being a millionaire is becoming more common.

Thomas Stanley did a ******** of research for his book The Millionaire Next Door. Quite the informative read, and enjoyable, too.

True about inflation, but still... being a millionaire is nothing to scoff at.
 

ginkobiloba

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2007
635
1,785
Paris
Welcome to how black people have been treated for that past 100 years. It's about time someone else feels the same pain.

mmm...no. You don't create more tolerance by spreading more intolerance. Doesn't compute. No one should feel that pain.
 
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